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Post by Handy on Sept 17, 2018 4:03:33 GMT -5
So, you are saying if you turn down your wife's sexual advances, she won't be hurt or have some negative emotional feelings?
I know people are different but some of the women's stories I have read, they offer sex or try to initiate sex, but when the husband ignores her a few times, that is it for her. She withdraws sexually because her advances didn't work. Most men keep trying for several years and then they too quit trying. Some women (none on ILIASM) feel so rejected after striking out a few times and that is the end of the road for them.
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Post by flounder on Sept 17, 2018 4:21:54 GMT -5
I think it’s just mismatched libido.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 17, 2018 4:24:03 GMT -5
W rarely initiates in the sense that she will come out and say she needs sexy time or that she physically acts upon a desire. So there is no rejecting per se.
Instead, there is innuendo and subtle cues along the way (touching hands, face, thigh or similar) that I pick up on and she likes for me to read the cues and be the initiator. She is very clear about this. She seems to enjoy or expect that I initate. (A pet peeve of mine since I can count one one hand the times she has initiated in the last decade whereas in the beginning of married life, BJs were handed out like candy, but I digress)
When I dont pick up on the cues or I ignore them, she doesnt make a big fuss. She wont want to have a talk. At best, she may mention it in passing, as one might do when talking about the time of day or the weather. My sense is that when I "refuse" this way, she notices it, but it doesnt "sting" her or affect her emotionally. If anything it might cause her to feel a momentary loss of power because I do feel she has concsiously or subconsciously weaponized sex.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 17, 2018 11:02:37 GMT -5
So I have managed to postpone the reset this time.
I don't think W was too happy about it and she started lashing out. Not so much about wanting sex and not getting it, but because Im being stubborn. I suspect in her mind its like "c'mon, I know you want it, lets get it over with so the cycle can start again."
More importantly though, as if a lightbulb went off over my head as she attempts resets these past few weeks, I have started to identify some long ingrained behavioral patterns of mine that have contributed to our relationship dysfunction. Yes Im that dense. Some of these patterns have been there since before I met my wife.
As some of you that have followed my story know, I am of that variety of SM that has withered with time but it wasnt always that way. When I met my wife, the raw sexuality between us was a huge part of my falling in love with her. I was not a virgin nor inexperienced when I first met my wife, so I felt confident that the sexual bond with her was special. Sexually speaking, we had a good run of about 12 years give or take. Then things started to get progressively worse until the present day. To give it a metric, the last 4 years have been borderline sexless by the 10x definition save for the week or two long resets sprinkled in between.
Except for those reset cycles, I was wandering in a desert of sexual desolation and deprivation in pursuits of the whys (why chasing). I realize that relatively speaking that might be more than many here. But my deal was such that when you go from 4 or 5x a week with some double or triple features thrown in every now and then to resets every 4 or 5 months, you grieve for what you had. You start to live in the sexual past.
Then in the past year, I discovered this community (I was a lurker on EP/ILIASM way back when SM first started to rear its ugly head) and it has been therapeutic. I have learned alot about myself and have found tremendous support and understanding on this forum. I have made some great friends that I hope someday get a chance to meet. There is some catharsis in finding a community of people that get you.
So I have started to try and do something about the behavior that have affected my relationships. Not so much to rescusitate my sex life, but because I feel that I owe it to myself, my family unit, and each of my kids individually to be the best version of me. Itty bitty steps of course because Im feeling uncertain as I try break new ground.
All that to say that I had a great conversation with my wife this morning. I forced an issue that has been lingering. And I asked my wife about her actions and let her know how they affected me. Nothing sexual mind you. And so we talked about it very matter of factly. As the conversation played out I could feel my wife's tone and demeanor changing for the better. All the more remarkable when you consider it was a phone conversation
And then my wife asked me two things. Why now? And why aren't we having this discussion face to face.
The why now was a great question. She feels change and wants to understand why. I admitted to my past behavior and that I didnt want to be that way anymore.
And the face to face conversation. I agreed. I suspect that those conversations will feel mightily awkward at first because we are so accustomed to hostility.
As a sanity check, Im not expecting to turn anything around just yet. In fact quite the contrary. I feel that I have done a lot of work on myself and she has not. So there is some imbalance there that has to be addressed. And whether we stay together or not, or whether this means sex is in the cards is not my primary concern at the moment. I want to change my behavior for better and I want to let her know how I feel and what I have been feeling these past few years without the pretense of hostility or the possibility of sexual activity hanging in the balance.
Today is a good day. And I needed one of those for a change
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 11:23:26 GMT -5
Sounds like a significant step in the right direction, TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo. Hopefully both of you will find that honest discussions are something that you look forward to (even if sometimes painful) because a successful talk makes you guys feel closer. Altogether, great job!
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 17, 2018 11:59:16 GMT -5
Thanks...I'll take small victories any way I can get them. I now realize that Im clumsy perhaps even deficient when it comes to setting the stage for relationship discussions. Up to now, these discussions mostly happen when things bubble over (one of the patterns Ive identified and Im trying to break). I need to work towards having a mental inventory of cues that segue into healthy discussion. It is probably necessary that my lacking confidence in this regard is something I should speak to her about. If you have any pointers on seting the stage, or can speak from experience, Im all ears. Sounds like a significant step in the right direction, TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo. Hopefully both of you will find that honest discussions are something that you look forward to (even if sometimes painful) because a successful talk makes you guys feel closer. Altogether, great job!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 12:29:05 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka DaddeeoThere are lots of articles on effective communication, most of which I forget about as soon as I start talking, but a couple of good rules: Don't assume malice when there could be other explanations. Give the benefit of the doubt. Don't interrupt. When she is done making her point, repeat it in your own words and say "Did I get that right?" If not, repeat until she says yes. Feeling like you are being heard is the biggest step towards resolution, IMHO. Ask her to do the same. Don't accuse her of anything. Use "I" sentences, like "When you do X it makes me feel like you don't care about me" or "I feel hurt when you do Y". Let her explain her perspective - and listen. Do not avoid any topics that bother you. You can be polite but firm about your issues. Nothing can be fixed unless it gets discussed. Be humble. Admit your mistakes. Try not to get stuck in arguing about facts of what has happened in the past, only how you felt and viewed the event. But better to concentrate on your vision of the future. If you start to get angry, politely tell her that you need to walk away but will come back to the topic when you can discuss it better. When she makes a point that never occurred to you, compliment her. Compliments are good for all purposes. Make it clear from the outset that you want to have a great marriage with her. Not better - wonderful. Ask her if she shares that desire and how she thinks you both can get there. What little you said about her makes me think that you have a decent shot. If she's willing to fight for the marriage, tell her you want that too. Don't be afraid to cry. And if she cries, for God's sake hug her. Hugging her after the talk is probably an excellent idea as well. It might break down some walls that talking alone can't do.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 17, 2018 12:58:14 GMT -5
All very good...and common sense! But I will need to work at it as it does not come to me naturally in the relationship. Much appreciated.
I do find that Im less interested in bringing up the distant past transgressions other than its role in landing us where we are today. That is, discussing the past to set the context as opposed to debating long ago facts as you say.
I am eager to focus more on the now and the future. I also need to understand if she is on the same page with me.
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Post by jamesbonding on Sept 17, 2018 13:02:25 GMT -5
Thanks...I'll take small victories any way I can get them. I now realize that Im clumsy perhaps even deficient when it comes to setting the stage for relationship discussions. Up to now, these discussions mostly happen when things bubble over (one of the patterns Ive identified and Im trying to break). I need to work towards having a mental inventory of cues that segue into healthy discussion. It is probably necessary that my lacking confidence in this regard is something I should speak to her about. If you have any pointers on seting the stage, or can speak from experience, Im all ears. This could be an interesting topic for discussion. It has been my impression that in my relationship, if I bring up a concern (such as infrequent sex) in calm, relaxed, non-angry manner, the discussion gets nowhere, has no effect, because my wife doesn't think my concern is serious. So I tend to avoid voicing my concerns when I'm not angry. But I really hate angry discussions, so I tend to avoid those too! I like to give my wife a hug when she goes out the door to work or whatever. But I've found that that is not a good time to ask for anything (such as a sex date) because her mind is already occupied with the next task, such as getting to work on time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 15:16:57 GMT -5
All very good...and common sense! But I will need to work at it as it does not come to me naturally in the relationship. Much appreciated. I do find that Im less interested in bringing up the distant past transgressions other than its role in landing us where we are today. That is, discussing the past to set the context as opposed to debating long ago facts as you say. I am eager to focus more on the now and the future. I also need to understand if she is on the same page with me. By the way, letting her know that you are uncomfortable with these sorts of discussions is an excellent idea. It gives you some slack on your execution plus brownie points for doing something difficult for you for the sake of the relationship.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 29, 2018 9:52:39 GMT -5
I struggled with the decision to post an entry today. Its not pretty and exposing raw emotion even anonymously feels like burdening others.
Im forcing an entry post to remind myself later of why this relationship is not what I might think it is
Rough start to the weekend. Despite a couple of weeks of relative tranquility, there was a strong outburst today from both sides. She is clearly lashing out using any of my words or actions as leverage.
The easisest thing in the world right now is to walk away and leave and head for divorce. Im sure its what she wants. The issue is leaving the kids to fend for themselves most of the time in a home where there is a lack of self control when it comes to anger and rage. Not for the first time I ask myself if there are mental health issues involved. And the thought of leaving the kids with someone who is not well or acts that way at times is hard to swallow.
There is a lot left unsaid here. But to give you a glimpse into my world, my 7 year old said to me today at the breaksfast table, "why are you letting her talk to us this way".
Its not that I let her, but I dont see any value of escalating the issue in front of the kids. She thrives on it. My belief is that she doesnt want to appear as the bad guy and wants the kids to see their father lose control like she does. Maybe Im dreadfully wrong. But it sure seems like thats what it is.
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Post by bballgirl on Sept 29, 2018 12:46:56 GMT -5
Sorry you had a tough start to the weekend. It’s good you posted so you can remember and reflect later.
Clearly your wife has issues when the 7 year old is more emotionally intelligent to know what’s right and wrong.
Just a gentle suggestion: maybe next time she is yelling then take the kids out to breakfast or to a park and tell or text her that her behavior is not acceptable, nobody has to take that abuse, and you don’t treat people you love that way. Removing yourself and the kids will at least diffuse the event at the moment.
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 29, 2018 13:20:40 GMT -5
bballgirl has a good point when it comes to removing the kids from a hostile confrontation. My perspective is that she is using the kids as a shield. She knows you are unlikely to fight back with the kids there. So she arranges the props(kids) and then feels free to be aggressive. Perhaps trying to humiliate you in front of them as a way to demonstrate who is really in charge. It's pretty universally recognized here that the low libido partner uses sex to control many of the dynamics inside the marriage. Control is a mainstay in their approach to married life.
It's worrisome to think it might be working for her if the 7yr. old is perceiving it from the perspective of "why do you let her talk to us this way". He isn't seeing you as his protector from the local bully.
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Post by sadkat on Sept 29, 2018 14:20:08 GMT -5
@daddeo- so sorry you’re having to deal with this. It certainly isn’t right. It can’t be good for the kids, either. You’ve got some tough decisions ahead of you. It’s good to be able to post here and get support from us.
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Post by flounder on Sept 29, 2018 15:39:40 GMT -5
Do you feel like you would be granted custody of the kids in a divorce ? Anger issues on your wife’s part would not look good.
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