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Post by workingonit on Aug 25, 2018 19:56:06 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo thank you for sharing. Sending big hugs your way. He is lucky to have you. And it is so important for.you to have support. This community is here for you!
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 26, 2018 20:38:02 GMT -5
Thanks again for the kind thoughts from everyone. Feeling a little better today. Took my little guy gokarting and to the arcade this morning. Since it was morning when we went, we pretty much had the track to ouselves for quite a bit. Since he was my passenger, he quickly learned what "drifting" is. Kid had a blast. Wouldnt stop talking to his siblings about it. But what really made me feel like I earned my dad paycheck this week is that he kept thanking me on the way home.
Earlier in the day, while having coffee, Wife got into me about being a dick. I responded by saying that Im not being a dick, just calling her out when it needed to be said and suggested that maybe she's just not liking that. She didnt disagree. The ground is definitely shifting.
My idea to exit in 3-5 years is still valid. I need to get the finances in place. Im optimistic that it will be mostly amicable the way the conversation is flowing. We dont specifically talk about a separation, but the idea floats from time to time and neither of us becomes alarmed. A new normal I guess.
***EDIT: P.S. I went back and read my journal entries. I should add one thing, it appears my resentment (if you can call it that now) for lack of sex has morphed into something different. Acceptance maybe? Not sure. But the point is a lot of the anger about lack of sex is gone. Im not exactly happy about the lack of sex but its good not to be angry either. It has cleared my mind to think about the relationship more objectively or at least I like to think it does. I no longer struggle or have anxiety about the lack of sex. I mostly dont initiate save for the odd unintended cuddle while asleep.
I wish I could tell you how it happened but I dont really know. In fact it didnt even occur to mention it until I read some of my previous entries.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 3, 2018 10:32:36 GMT -5
Filing under journalling...
"Tough" morning today....W was very touchy touchy this morning in bed (yep back in the same bedroom, another story for another day, just not today). Normally its nice, we'll cuddle, maybe morning sex or extended foreplay. Now mind you this is not the norm. Maybe once every month or two this might occur. Her way of initiating.
Today I was uncomfortable. It took a lot of strength to not let my hands wander, pull her shorts out of the way that sort of thing. I purposely didnt pull away ( dont want drama before the school season starts). So I was somewhat passive. But in times past the usual routine is that her cuddling is usually my cue to more touching, groping and then progression with me usually more active. Thankfully, she fell back asleep.
I stopped myself from the usual route because I felt there wouldnt be a good outcome for me afterwards. I knew that it would be a reset. If we had something this morning and then I tried again tonight or tomorrow or later in the week I'd get the usual excuses. And Id be feeling used. If we had something and then I didnt try anything later against my instinct/desires I'd feel like shit.
Such is the mindfuck
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 4, 2018 9:38:34 GMT -5
Filing under journalling... "Tough" morning today....W was very touchy touchy this morning in bed (yep back in the same bedroom, another story for another day, just not today). Normally its nice, we'll cuddle, maybe morning sex or extended foreplay. Now mind you this is not the norm. Maybe once every month or two this might occur. Her way of initiating. Today I was uncomfortable. It took a lot of strength to not let my hands wander, pull her shorts out of the way that sort of thing. I purposely didnt pull away ( dont want drama before the school season starts). So I was somewhat passive. But in times past the usual routine is that her cuddling is usually my cue to more touching, groping and then progression with me usually more active. Thankfully, she fell back asleep. I stopped myself from the usual route because I felt there wouldnt be a good outcome for me afterwards. I knew that it would be a reset. If we had something this morning and then I tried again tonight or tomorrow or later in the week I'd get the usual excuses. And Id be feeling used. If we had something and then I didnt try anything later against my instinct/desires I'd feel like shit. Such is the mindfuck TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo Have you asked her what her ideal frequency is? I'm just thinking that if you had proceeded and ended up having sex, then tried again later that night or the next day, maybe it's just too soon for her. If her sex drive isn't as high as yours then it's likely she doesn't want it twice in one day or on back to back days. Not everyone does. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's a reset, just that your libidos differ. Next time do you think you could act on her way of initiating, enjoy, and then give her a few days before trying something again? Even if that's less often than you'd like? Maybe she's reluctant to initiate more often because she knows it would lead to you want more sooner than she'd want it?
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 4, 2018 12:16:56 GMT -5
choosinghappy ... Great question...if only it were that simple. I am very HL. She is LL. She enjoys sex, but it is not a high priority for her. We have discussed this many, many times before and there is no preferred frequency. She doesnt want to feel obligated to do it or meet a certain frequency. She needs to feel in the mood. I certainly get that. But make of it what you will. So for awhile (3 or 4 years?), I did go down the route of trying to set the mood. I learned that is a slippery slope. Had "the talk" more than a handful of times since then and then you fast forward to today where at least I am contemplating outsourcing and divorce and more than likely she may be as well. Which is why it can be confusing when we have mornings like yesterday.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 4, 2018 14:09:29 GMT -5
At work, a younger female colleague responds to a completely innocuous email of mine (where I had confirmed some trivial information) with the following line:
"You're my favorite" (my boss is copied)
Upon seeing the email, my head gets all dizzy and my knees weak.
How starved for female affection am I?
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Post by solodriver on Sept 4, 2018 21:53:10 GMT -5
At work, a younger female colleague responds to a completely innocuous email of mine (where I had confirmed some trivial information) with the following line: "You're my favorite" (my boss is copied) Upon seeing the email, my head gets all dizzy and my knees weak. How starved for female affection am I? I get that way when I'm touched by one. How starved it that?
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 5, 2018 2:46:06 GMT -5
Well then....Im glad this little journal of mine in the corner of the forum can generate such passionate debate. ;-) I appreciate all the good comments and discussion. I am not sure my wife or I are a big fans of scheduled sex. We are more the spontaneous type. But I thought it funny to tell the anecdote about the good ole horn dog doctor. She actually does enjoy sex, sometimes, very rarely to be truthful. But we have a big disconnect in libido. I would "settle" for once a week non-scheduled but even that is not in the cards. In the last year, we have had mutually enjoyable sex maybe 1 or 2 times. Everything else has been the starfish variety or hurry up and finish up Id like to get my nails done variety. I get that for many people this might suffice, sex isnt everything, she is still willing etc. If I was lower libido, Id probably be happy. But truth is the on going rejection is hurtful and I am getting past the stage of resentment. It is difficult for me because for a looooong time we had a great sex life. And even now that I am disconnecting, those memories are etched into the sexual part of my brain and I long for a return to those days. Seems like self inflicted pain, huh. Im working on it though. This is a temporary phase. I did want to journal that she is starting to get touchy lately. A little bit over the weekend but last night, a lot of arm and shoulder touching and even the press the breast into my arm while we were shopping. Its funny that Im so hyper aware of something so innocuous. Im a little conflicted about her actions. I dont want to make it into a big deal, but at the same time, I feel a discussion coming on if it becomes more persistent or normalized. So yeah just that. Hope everyone else is off to a great start this morning. Since you like journaling and your marriage isnt dead yet, what about keeping a journal about events surrounding "the good times". What helped prompt them? Time of cycle? Halmark movies? Flirting she recieved at work? A big slice of chocolate cake? Your hand on her butt while she did dishes? Maybe there is an invisible dimmer switch and your missing what starts the slow build to full on light. Just a thought.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 5, 2018 2:51:08 GMT -5
TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo , have you and your wife considered counseling? Unlike a lot of people here, you actually had a really good sex life for 12 years, and then it pretty much fell off a cliff. In only 5 years you've gone from regular sex to 1-2 times last year. You are only two tiny steps away from total celibacy. I'm not counting the starfish sex, which she obviously resents. I'm not a big fan of counseling in order to try to turn your effectively sexless or asexual partner into a porn star, but it seems like a situation like yours could really benefit from it. In earlier posts you've mentioned that the decline in sex was accompanied by a very negative change in her attitude toward you, and sex. You haven't been able to get to the bottom of all that but maybe a good couples counselor could? You are now disconnecting from her. That is the first stage toward the end of the marriage, or a Stasis In Hell for the both of you. Don't ask me how I know that from experience. She seems to be sensing your disconnection, resulting in the recent touchy feeley. If you are lucky, and you want the marriage to succeed, that could be a really good sign. Maybe she's noticed your disconnection and desperately wants to change it. But it's hard to turn a Cruise Ship around, and after 5 years of declining relations, that is what it's like to effect any change. You seem almost apologetic for your libido, and also your wife's lack of libido. Once or twice a year is not normal, in fact it is snuggled right up against the asexual spectrum (gray-asexual to be precise). Anything under once a month is seriously problematic. There is no need to apologize for your sex drive. As I said, you are only a few tiny steps from enforced priesthood, total celibacy, without any benefits. Your wife is probably not asexual, you would not have had 12 years of great sex if she was. But she has obviously adopted the same mindset toward sex, at least in terms of partnered sex with you. She is not enjoying more than minimal sex (rapidly declining to zero) because she has developed an aversion to sex with you. That is a fact. Otherwise you guys would be having the sex you always had. I think it's a good idea that neither of you are interested in scheduled sex because I think in your case, given your wife's very sex averse attitude, it would blow up in your face and result in even less sex. The reason for that is that sex negative people find sex to be an extremely emotionally draining experience. That is why asexuals won't just "spread their legs for the marriage" forever. They do it in the beginning but eventually they tire of it or more charitably the (increasingly negative) emotional investment wears them out. This is a fact and is discussed frequently on the AVEN site. If you take someone whose little remaining libido is good for once or twice a year (last year, maybe not this year) and you try to schedule sex every week, or even once a month, the result will be that they will quickly become emotionally drained, just like asexuals, even if they aren't fundamentally asexual but have an attitude problem toward the marriage. You can't force or coerce a sex negative partner into enjoying sex, but you can coerce them into having sex, if the stakes are high enough. For awhile. But eventually they will rebel and you will find yourself in total celibacy. Scheduling sex is just another way to coerce sex ***IF*** ***IF*** ***IF*** they are currently sex negative (sex repulsed) for whatever reason. This is why I argued previously in this thread that for some people (which are a majority of the refusing partners here) scheduled sex is like a root canal. Yes, some people are not fundamentally sex negative, they have a libido, desire for their partner, but something is in the way, and scheduling might help them. But we are not normal here. The discussions on AVEN prove that the more sex you try to extract from a sex negative partner, the less you get. That's a fact, and as I said, even if your partner is not asexual, if you are having sex less than once a month your partner has the same MINDSET. Just to reinforce why I think TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo 's story here screams for either counseling or divorce. Or abject misery until death do you both apart. I agree counseling might really help.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 5, 2018 8:31:12 GMT -5
A few weeks ago I watched a silly movie on netflix. In a pivotal scene, girl leaves her fiance, realizing to her dismay he is not the one for her.
He chases her, asking for a second chance, that he would change.
She says for him not to change. That his behaviour is neither wrong nor right. Its just that its not what she wants or needs.
I told that anecdote so I can now tell this one.
In trying to figure out why I no longer feel resentment towards W about the dearth of sex, a lightbulb went off inside my head.
I used to feel that her disinterest is an indictment of me, my appearance, my beliefs, or my dirty mind.
So I spent a few years setting the mood, trying to be more than an atm and accessory. That meant kiddie chauffer, mechanic, general contractor, chef, gardener, masseuse, dishwasher etc. It was never enough. I got fashionable, updated wardrobe, lost weight, got a vasectomy, and so on. Slippery slope.
I then came to the conclusion in the last year that its not me. Its her. Something changed. She no longer places high utility on having a sexual connection. If I no longer propostioned sex, she wouldnt be highly bothered other than mild interest if I was no longer attracted to her. If I refused her when she did get around to her sexy moods, it might bring a conversation, but she wouldnt feel slighted in the least. She would probably be satisfied having enjoyable sex 3 or 4 tines a year on her terms.
I feel this realization is a significant milestone. I no longer feel unloved, ugly, or that I need to change. "My behaviour is neither wrong nor right. Its just that its not what she wants or needs."
Now it should not go unstated that I still long for regular emotional connection via fucking. But I no longer harbor anger about it if that makes sense.
That said, I now spend a lot of time thinking what our relationship is. I feel that we are entering the "great pretender" phase, where its a relationship in appearance without the underlying affection supported by regular sex.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 5, 2018 8:54:43 GMT -5
Hi sweetplumeria. I cant say I enjoy journaling per se. Id classify it as a necessary outlet to prevent myself from going crazy at times. Trust me Id much rather be doing other things if I wasnt so distracted. Regarding the good times, in this particular case, it was probably that we had a rare opportunity to sleep in together and regular affection/touching has been absent for a few weeks. I do believe there is a likelihood that she is flirting at work. I am not sure if Im going to go down that path to re-ignite her passion. Either way, this is something she would feel ashamed to admit to. I have tried individual counselling twice in the past. I believe that counseling works if you believe in the process. I dont think Ive gotten over that hump. In particular, when I tried counseling in the past, I couldnt get over the fact that Im paying someone to listen to me talk about my problems. I know that sounds fucked up. Wrong or right, I think its a cultural hang up thats part of my programming. Since you like journaling and your marriage isnt dead yet, what about keeping a journal about events surrounding "the good times". What helped prompt them? Time of cycle? Halmark movies? Flirting she recieved at work? A big slice of chocolate cake? Your hand on her butt while she did dishes? Maybe there is an invisible dimmer switch and your missing what starts the slow build to full on light. Just a thought.[/quote]
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 5, 2018 10:03:14 GMT -5
Hi sweetplumeria. I cant say I enjoy journaling per se. Id classify it as a necessary outlet to prevent myself from going crazy at times. Trust me Id much rather be doing other things if I wasnt so distracted. Regarding the good times, in this particular case, it was probably that we had a rare opportunity to sleep in together and regular affection/touching has been absent for a few weeks. I do believe there is a likelihood that she is flirting at work. I am not sure if Im going to go down that path to re-ignite her passion. Either way, this is something she would feel ashamed to admit to. I have tried individual counselling twice in the past. I believe that counseling works if you believe in the process. I dont think Ive gotten over that hump. In particular, when I tried counseling in the past, I couldnt get over the fact that Im paying someone to listen to me talk about my problems. I know that sounds fucked up. Wrong or right, I think its a cultural hang up thats part of my programming. Since you like journaling and your marriage isnt dead yet, what about keeping a journal about events surrounding "the good times". What helped prompt them? Time of cycle? Halmark movies? Flirting she recieved at work? A big slice of chocolate cake? Your hand on her butt while she did dishes? Maybe there is an invisible dimmer switch and your missing what starts the slow build to full on light. Just a thought. [/quote]Your not paying them to listen. Your paying for coping skills and/or them to get the other person to confess what was really bothering them and deal with it. Rofl, in trying to describe that last bit my mind had a tangeant about water boarding and mercenaries, crazy mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 11:16:50 GMT -5
Marriage is about compromise Why do I hate this idea so much? Compromise. It reminds me of "Tolerance".
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 5, 2018 12:05:08 GMT -5
daddeeo said: "I have tried individual counselling twice in the past. I believe that counseling works if you believe in the process. I dont think Ive gotten over that hump. In particular, when I tried counseling in the past, I couldnt get over the fact that Im paying someone to listen to me talk about my problems. I know that sounds fucked up. Wrong or right, I think its a cultural hang up thats part of my programming."
For me, the most valuable part of counseling was that my therapists helped me listen to and value myself. They also were more likely than I to take seriously my concerns and to remember what I'd said before.
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Post by bballgirl on Sept 5, 2018 13:16:47 GMT -5
Marriage is about compromise Why do I hate this idea so much? Compromise. It reminds me of "Tolerance". Well I guess it depends what you are compromising on. Here’s an example: After 2 years of not living together, now Mr Bballgirl likes the fan over the bed at the highest speed. Way too cold for me. I do like a fan but not supersonic speed. So I lowered it one level or if he didn’t like that I would sleep in another bedroom. So it’s at my speed and I sleep in the same bed as him. That’s compromise. Tolerance is tough. To me that is beyond compromise. I tolerated celibacy for many years. I will not tolerate anything ever again.
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