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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 13:52:13 GMT -5
Why do I hate this idea so much? Compromise. It reminds me of "Tolerance". Well I guess it depends what you are compromising on. Here’s an example: After 2 years of not living together, now Mr Bballgirl likes the fan over the bed at the highest speed. Way too cold for me. I do like a fan but not supersonic speed. So I lowered it one level or if he didn’t like that I would sleep in another bedroom. So it’s at my speed and I sleep in the same bed as him. That’s compromise. Tolerance is tough. To me that is beyond compromise. I tolerated celibacy for many years. I will not tolerate anything ever again. HA!! I don't even consider that compromise. That's living without the hurricane and shedding some element of clothing or a sheet. Bucking up, maybe. I thought you were talking about doing things together or even having sex. For these things, should we even expect to compromise? Just do them, do them with gusto, and learn to sincerely enjoy them. It beats the heck out of dragging ass around being a jackwagon. Surely, we can find someone that likes to do at least most of the things we like . And then learn to enjoy the new stuff. Maybe with sex, you both just have to agree to aggressively participate significantly more than the most libidinous partner. Tolerate that! That's the theory anyway.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 5, 2018 14:02:48 GMT -5
@creelunion its good to see you back in these parts. Hope things are well all things considered Tolerance is an interesting word. I tended to be the patient (tolerant) one in our relationship. But that has started to unravel. There is very little tolerance these days. It makes me wonder which way the relationship might have gone had I been less so since the beginning. Marriage is about compromise Why do I hate this idea so much? Compromise. It reminds me of "Tolerance".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 14:12:44 GMT -5
@creelunion its good to see you back in these parts. Hope things are well all things considered Tolerance is an interesting word. I tended to be the patient (tolerant) one in our relationship. But that has started to unravel. There is very little tolerance these days. It makes me wonder which way the relationship might have gone had I been less so since the beginning. Why do I hate this idea so much? Compromise. It reminds me of "Tolerance". It seems to me tolerance is like "Management". It implies mitigating a negative -- negatively. Leading is better than Managing -- more fun. Actively Engaging is better than Tolerating. Giving completely or Not At All is better than Compromising. Seems no one likes a compromise. So, why not just give the whole enchilada or NOTHING? TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo, you probably would have been much better off had you not tolerated and compromised. I know I would have been. Still not sure what I was thinking.
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Post by bballgirl on Sept 5, 2018 16:23:58 GMT -5
Well I guess it depends what you are compromising on. Here’s an example: After 2 years of not living together, now Mr Bballgirl likes the fan over the bed at the highest speed. Way too cold for me. I do like a fan but not supersonic speed. So I lowered it one level or if he didn’t like that I would sleep in another bedroom. So it’s at my speed and I sleep in the same bed as him. That’s compromise. Tolerance is tough. To me that is beyond compromise. I tolerated celibacy for many years. I will not tolerate anything ever again. HA!! I don't even consider that compromise. That's living without the hurricane and shedding some element of clothing or a sheet. Bucking up, maybe. I thought you were talking about doing things together or even having sex. For these things, should we even expect to compromise? Just do them, do them with gusto, and learn to sincerely enjoy them. It beats the heck out of dragging ass around being a jackwagon. Surely, we can find someone that likes to do at least most of the things we like . And then learn to enjoy the new stuff. Maybe with sex, you both just have to agree to aggressively participate significantly more than the most libidinous partner. Tolerate that! That's the theory anyway. Honey I was ready to throw down over that damn fan but it didn’t come to that, it was not a big deal at all. We do have a lot of interests in common but some we don’t and sex is one of them. Not a big deal anymore.
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Post by JMX on Sept 5, 2018 22:00:08 GMT -5
Honestly, there are a couple of days a month I can barely tolerate myself. Tack on about a week out of a month - he is lucky he is alive.
The other night, I woke up from his snoring and the anger was so visceral (2 am) that I full-force punched him in his arm to shut him up so I could sleep. I usually just slightly tap him with a finger and he stops - but, man, that punch felt great. Didn’t even wake him up, but he stopped snoring for about 20 minutes. I still couldn’t fall back asleep but I didn’t punch him again.
Tolerance leads to murder. That’s what’s next.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 5, 2018 23:57:41 GMT -5
Honestly, there are a couple of days a month I can barely tolerate myself. Tack on about a week out of a month - he is lucky he is alive. The other night, I woke up from his snoring and the anger was so visceral (2 am) that I full-force punched him in his arm to shut him up so I could sleep. I usually just slightly tap him with a finger and he stops - but, man, that punch felt great. Didn’t even wake him up, but he stopped snoring for about 20 minutes. I still couldn’t fall back asleep but I didn’t punch him again. Tolerance leads to murder. That’s what’s next. Omg JMX, I am laughing so hard!
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Post by jamesbonding on Sept 6, 2018 3:25:11 GMT -5
I did want to journal that she is starting to get touchy lately. A little bit over the weekend but last night, a lot of arm and shoulder touching and even the press the breast into my arm while we were shopping. Its funny that Im so hyper aware of something so innocuous. Im a little conflicted about her actions. I dont want to make it into a big deal, but at the same time, I feel a discussion coming on if it becomes more persistent or normalized. So yeah just that. Since you like journaling and your marriage isnt dead yet, what about keeping a journal about events surrounding "the good times". What helped prompt them? Time of cycle? Halmark movies? Flirting she recieved at work? A big slice of chocolate cake? Your hand on her butt while she did dishes? Maybe there is an invisible dimmer switch and your missing what starts the slow build to full on light. Just a thought. I agree, journaling can be helpful. When something interesting happens, you can go back in your notes and try to figure out what triggered it. Also, trying to explain stuff to others (for example, posting on this forum) forces you to organize your thoughts and probably causes your brain to think about the problem in the background, subconsciously. I've had sex about once per 10 days on average for the last 8 years. Not sexless, but not what I consider an acceptable frequency either. Two years ago I got fed up and determined to do something about it. I started recording relevant details about our sex life - when I'd ask for sex, her response, when she would agree to a date, when she would renege and the reason, and when we actually had sex. The sex frequency did increase for a while, I became happy and stopped journaling, and then the frequency gradually dropped back to once per 10 days. So, from analyzing my notes, I have some idea about how I increased the frequency, but I have less idea about how the frequency declined. Maybe I just wasn't vigilant enough, didn't take immediate action when the frequency declined below an acceptable level. About 3 months ago I determined to fix the low-sex situation again, and started journaling again. I've had some success, in fact the last week has been amazing, but that's another story. But anyway, one small example of what I've learned and recorded so I won't forget it: I should not ask for anything when I'm hugging my wife as she is leaving to go to work. At that time she is stressed about getting to work on time. If I ask for something, such as when we might have sex again, she will say with some irritation, "Don't ask me now. I've got to get to work!"
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 6, 2018 22:21:31 GMT -5
I think I could make do with once every 10 days....my standards are dropping. Previously I thought 1x/week would keep my satisfied. Journalling to keep track of frequency and context is an interesting idea. It probably would have been the thing to do 3-4 years ago. Might have been helpful then. But back then, I always assumed it was just a slump and that things would turn around. Funny how that works. In the last 2 years I did roughly track the dates but not the context. These days, I feel like Im checking out emotionally. I dont even get mad about the sex anymore. I still grieve over the loss of regular sex. Our regular interactions are becoming mechanical. I do find myself daydreaming about leaving and what that looks like. Emotionally, Im probably ready to do it now. But it would be reckless financially. I need to get that part under control and then its a more realistic option. If it were me and her only, the finances wouldnt hold me back. But with 4 kids in the picture, Im risk averse. I do worry about the kids if I left. Mom can be a bit of a loose cannon and the younger ones are not emotionally equipped. My oldest son is good at compartmentalizing. Not sure thats a good thing when you are 12. So thats a tie that binds me for the time being. Lastly, I think alot about outsourcing. There are even a couple of candidates if I weren't so OPSEC minded. I think about all the work involved in finding a decent partner and leading a double life. It honestly makes divorce seem more palatable. More likely, I think I need to have a conversation about unilaterally or bilaterally opening the marriage in a dont ask dont tell manner. I think that might be optimal if she bought in to the idea. I need to find the right time to have that discussion. Since you like journaling and your marriage isnt dead yet, what about keeping a journal about events surrounding "the good times". What helped prompt them? Time of cycle? Halmark movies? Flirting she recieved at work? A big slice of chocolate cake? Your hand on her butt while she did dishes? Maybe there is an invisible dimmer switch and your missing what starts the slow build to full on light. Just a thought. I agree, journaling can be helpful. When something interesting happens, you can go back in your notes and try to figure out what triggered it. Also, trying to explain stuff to others (for example, posting on this forum) forces you to organize your thoughts and probably causes your brain to think about the problem in the background, subconsciously. I've had sex about once per 10 days on average for the last 8 years. Not sexless, but not what I consider an acceptable frequency either. Two years ago I got fed up and determined to do something about it. I started recording relevant details about our sex life - when I'd ask for sex, her response, when she would agree to a date, when she would renege and the reason, and when we actually had sex. The sex frequency did increase for a while, I became happy and stopped journaling, and then the frequency gradually dropped back to once per 10 days. So, from analyzing my notes, I have some idea about how I increased the frequency, but I have less idea about how the frequency declined. Maybe I just wasn't vigilant enough, didn't take immediate action when the frequency declined below an acceptable level. About 3 months ago I determined to fix the low-sex situation again, and started journaling again. I've had some success, in fact the last week has been amazing, but that's another story. But anyway, one small example of what I've learned and recorded so I won't forget it: I should not ask for anything when I'm hugging my wife as she is leaving to go to work. At that time she is stressed about getting to work on time. If I ask for something, such as when we might have sex again, she will say with some irritation, "Don't ask me now. I've got to get to work!"
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Post by baza on Sept 7, 2018 0:29:43 GMT -5
I kept a diary from March 1999 through to about September 2015.
One thing (among many) it hi-lights...... ...when I am inclined to think "well, my ILIASM deal wasn't so bad", all I have to do is look at the date, say September 7th, and go back to the diary and look up the numerous September 7ths in there year by year up to 2009 when I left. And it is a stark, sobering, and confronting thing to see the deep levels of unhappiness I was in. It is at times actually painful to read.
Time has tempered my memory a bit, but my diary is there in real time at the time. Brings me back to reality real quick !! It was bad alright. Real bad.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 7, 2018 2:24:48 GMT -5
I think I could make do with once every 10 days....my standards are dropping. Previously I thought 1x/week would keep my satisfied. Journalling to keep track of frequency and context is an interesting idea. It probably would have been the thing to do 3-4 years ago. Might have been helpful then. But back then, I always assumed it was just a slump and that things would turn around. Funny how that works. In the last 2 years I did roughly track the dates but not the context. These days, I feel like Im checking out emotionally. I dont even get mad about the sex anymore. I still grieve over the loss of regular sex. Our regular interactions are becoming mechanical. I do find myself daydreaming about leaving and what that looks like. Emotionally, Im probably ready to do it now. But it would be reckless financially. I need to get that part under control and then its a more realistic option. If it were me and her only, the finances wouldnt hold me back. But with 4 kids in the picture, Im risk averse. I do worry about the kids if I left. Mom can be a bit of a loose cannon and the younger ones are not emptionally equipped. My oldest son is good at compartmentalizing. Not sure thats a good thing when you are 12. So thats a tie that binds me for the time being. Lastly, I think alot about outsourcing. There are even a couple of candidates if I weren't so OPSEC minded. I think about all the work involved in finding a decent partner and leading a double life. It honestly makes divorce seem more palatable. More likely, I think I need to have a conversation about unilaterally or bilaterally opening the marriage in a dont ask dont tell manner. I think that might be optimal if she bought in to the idea. I need to find the right time to have that discussion. I agree, journaling can be helpful. When something interesting happens, you can go back in your notes and try to figure out what triggered it. Also, trying to explain stuff to others (for example, posting on this forum) forces you to organize your thoughts and probably causes your brain to think about the problem in the background, subconsciously. I've had sex about once per 10 days on average for the last 8 years. Not sexless, but not what I consider an acceptable frequency either. Two years ago I got fed up and determined to do something about it. I started recording relevant details about our sex life - when I'd ask for sex, her response, when she would agree to a date, when she would renege and the reason, and when we actually had sex. The sex frequency did increase for a while, I became happy and stopped journaling, and then the frequency gradually dropped back to once per 10 days. So, from analyzing my notes, I have some idea about how I increased the frequency, but I have less idea about how the frequency declined. Maybe I just wasn't vigilant enough, didn't take immediate action when the frequency declined below an acceptable level. About 3 months ago I determined to fix the low-sex situation again, and started journaling again. I've had some success, in fact the last week has been amazing, but that's another story. But anyway, one small example of what I've learned and recorded so I won't forget it: I should not ask for anything when I'm hugging my wife as she is leaving to go to work. At that time she is stressed about getting to work on time. If I ask for something, such as when we might have sex again, she will say with some irritation, "Don't ask me now. I've got to get to work!" I have a friend successfully navigating a husband and a live in boyfriend. Its possible but needs the right people and a crazy amount of tolerance. In terms of 1 x a week... I get that.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 7, 2018 8:02:24 GMT -5
Here is a sample from my journal:
July 12,2014 - begged for sex on our 17th anniversary. Grudgingly provided complete with fake "medical condition" pain.
July 12,2017 - divorce finalized on 20th anniversary
Other entries were similar to the 2014 one. Kinda redundant to post.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 7, 2018 8:24:03 GMT -5
Are you bragging ? 😈 In terms of 1 x a week... I get that.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 7, 2018 9:53:30 GMT -5
Are you bragging ? 😈 In terms of 1 x a week... I get that. No! Dreaming. Pondering. Scheming. Wishing. Hoping. Understanding.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 10, 2018 20:09:45 GMT -5
Wife is acting a little conciliatory lately. Looking for opportunities to spend time together. Nothing overtly romantic, just solid adult time without the kids. We went to a movie. But there was no hand holding or arms touching. Another day we went clothes shopping for a few hours. It was nice but it didnt make me feel any closer to her emotionally. I still feel like Im moving away.
We took our youngest son to a psychologist to help us with the anxiety he has over school. It was a good experience for a first visit. Wife suggested that we should also go see a counselor. I just looked at her and did not respond. I dont trust what she is saying. Im sure she genuinely wants to see the counselor, but not for the right reasons. Just my gut feeling. If she actually does in fact go forward with booking an appointment, I'll be happy to go along to keep the peace. But I feel that in the past 12 months Ive gotten clarity by being here. It has been my therapy. Maybe she needs to "catch up".
I went to the pub down the street for a beer or two last night. Been going there for 6 years. Maybe once a month or two when Im up for it. Was only out for about an hour to watch the end of the packers game. So this morning she asks me if I went to the pub to meet women. WTF??? In the past this kind of thing would piss me off. I didnt take the bait. I told her she is nuts. Yeah the conversation could have gone other ways, but I wasnt in the mood for drama.
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Post by baza on Sept 10, 2018 20:43:10 GMT -5
I was just reading through your back story to get myself up to speed Brother TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo . Of note was your post (page 5 of your thread) on 14th August 2017 detailing a major blow up in your deal. Has anything materially changed between now, and 13 months ago ?
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