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Post by frustratednlonely on Jan 14, 2019 16:44:57 GMT -5
We met 17 years ago at a mutual friend’s birthday party. We went to my house together that night and have been together ever since. I’ve always joked that we’re having the longest ever ‘one night stand’ but that is making light of a very different situation. I had a 4yo daughter when we met. Our sex life was good but less frequent than I was used to with other previous relationships. Our relationship was about much more than just sex. We had a deep connection. After 3 years I was worried our sex life was over, we never slept together and initiation petered out after many rejections. We had the talk and he told me I was more like a sister or a cousin. I immediately said we had to end the relationship. Then he back peddled. I think he was worried about losing his step daughter. They are very close. I believed him when he said he hadn’t meant it and he would try harder. We’d been together 5 years when I asked if we could have our own child but DH wasn’t keen. I stamped my foot, wailed and pouted for 6 months before he agreed. Not my finest moment. If he had continued to say no, we probably would have parted then. Once DS arrived the sex ground to a halt completely. We have the talk every six months or so, he promises more effort, nothing comes of it. Our children are now 21 and 11. In the last 5 years DH has had an industrial accident, lost his father and discovered cancer which is incurable but treated as a long term chronic illness. He has depression due in part to his situation and in part to smoking too much weed. He announced he was no longer smoking before Christmas but that lasted about a week. We have prescription viagra due to illness and depression. Tried once or twice but DH didn’t like to plan sex in advance. He also tried counselling but hated it and won’t try again. There is lots of affection - hand holding, bum smacking and kissing but none of it ever leads anywhere. He has given me permission to find a lover. I know myself too well - if I stray my heart will go too. I am profoundly sad for us both. Neither chose this for each other. DH currently undergoing chemo so nothing will get better any time soon.
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Post by baza on Jan 14, 2019 19:34:49 GMT -5
You note that - "Neither chose this for each other" - Sister frustratednlonely , and that's probably true. The cosmos does at times tend to hand us shit sandwiches for no apparent reason. But now, it becomes a matter of "are you now going to choose to continue on in the situation" ? You might not be able to do too much about the cards you have been dealt, but they have been dealt, and it is on you to play your cards as best you can. Just as it is his responsibility to play his cards as best he can. Your story reads like he is not greatly interested in addressing his issues, so the resolution to the situation is probably going to fall on you. I would recommend these names for you to read their full run of stories. Sister choosinghappy workingonit ballofconfusion @elle You may find some valuable reference points in their postings.
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iliasm
New Member
Posts: 3
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by iliasm on Jan 22, 2019 13:39:54 GMT -5
Hello forum. I suspect my story is not unique but decided to introduce myself anyway. Please be gentle with me...
I'm a 46 year old male married for just over a decade. I'm from the US and my wife is from China. We have a five and a half year old daughter and our marriage has been entirely sexless for... ...you guessed it—five and a half years!
The first couple years were not exactly sex filled, but we had sex maybe every week or couple of weeks. It was always rudimentary. I am the second man my wife has ever been with and from what limited info I got from her, her first boyfriend was not skilled nor gentle in bed. She'd only had sex with him a few times anyway. I've had many (18 or more) lovers in my life and am so much more experienced. I recognized her inexperience the very first night together and expected I'd be able to gently introduce her to the "joy" of sex.
My wife has never been into foreplay. She would not let me do things normally considered foreplay. While kissing was OK, she rejected anything other than genital-to-genital contact. So, maybe it's some peoples' dream to just jump on and grind away, but for me, I missed the indulgences of good foreplay. I chalked it up to her inexperience and naivety. Also Chinese culture is not known for being hyper-sexual so I expected upbringing had a lot to do with her lack of desire. In any case, for the first few years, I figured I'd enjoy "teaching her the ropes" (so to speak).
After the first couple years, her sexuality didn't blossom and I kept mine suppressed. After a few weeks or a month would go by I'd express my dismay at our dwindling sex life and we'd have a go. Afterward she'd remember that she enjoyed it at least a little and we'd have sex a little more frequently for the the next month (maybe twice or three times rather than once). Still, it would slow down again until we'd have "the chat" and restart the cycle. I'm a highly empathic person and the less interested she was, the harder it was to enjoy having sex together. Eventually, a self-fulfilling prophecy came about. I asked her why we didn't have sex more often and she told me: "because it takes you too long to orgasm." Certainly that was true but, lacking foreplay, and with one disinterested partner, wouldn't that be the case with most people? It was with me at least.
Around this time sex had dwindled to less than once a month. One night, the question of having children came up. She being 35 and me being really close to 40 at the time, we were getting to what (we believe) was too old for kids. She wanted a child but I was on-the-fence about it. We decided that we'd have unprotected sex and "just see what happens." In retrospect, I'd have probably agreed to anything at that point, just to get the sex! As things go, after the first try she was pregnant (o bitter irony of life). During the next nine months we had sex twice and I got oral twice (pregnancy hormones, I guess). Then our dear beautiful daughter was born. Our lamentably emaciated sex life was officially dead.
We've barely talked about the subject. Again, I expect that relates to her cultural upbringing. I resolved in my mind that she just isn't interested in sex. I've gone back and forth in my mind - is it because of me, is it just her? She doesn't broach the subject and I don't bring it up because I've always sensed she's not comfortable discussing it. Life goes on.
About a year or so into our daughter's life, it became quite evident that my wife was struggling with raising her whereas I was a natural caregiver. She couldn't stand being at home with a one and a half year old (she was never really domestic to begin with) and when I was home from work and on weekends, I'd take over all the parenting. She'd just finished her doctoral degree before pregnancy and was immersing herself in post-doctoral work. We decided to flip the table. I gave up my software engineering career of 20 years and my wife took a job in a different state. I agreed to be a stay-at-home-dad (SAHD). We packed up and moved across the country. It was a major life change!
Now, for the past four years, I've been our daughter's primary caregiver and my wife has been the primary breadwinner. We have not had sex since our daughter was born. My wife never touches me and I don't touch her. The kiss on the cheek in the morning has become a european-style kiss between friends (kissing the air between us). Our marriage is now a business arrangement. We don't fight and rarely argue. We just soldier on. The sexual fire inside me is dim enough that I wonder if it even still burns. I'm not sure I even remember how to touch a woman much less satisfy someone else.
I've chosen to remain in this marriage for two main reasons. 1) Our daughter. 2) My lifestyle. I enjoy raising our daughter and I enjoy the freedom to pursue my interests while she's at school. I couldn't do either of those things without my wife's career. I know my wife couldn't manage our daughter herself (she's even admitted as much) and at this point I've been out of my career field long enough that it woud be hard to get back in at the level I left it. I'm hoping I can last for a another 13 years and that my daughter will go off to college at 18. I don't want her to go through a broken marriage as a kid (both my parents and my wife's parents are still together). I feel like my kid deserves a stable household. There is no animosity between my wife and I. Though I silently carry some resentment, I'm not sure she feels the same. We are perfectly cordial and respectful to each other. We're just not at all intimate. The relationship fits her sexual desires, it just doesn't fit mine.
I have never cheated on my wife and don't plan to. I haven't recognized any opportunities to do so anyway (I'm kinda sad to say so actually). I've resolved that I've already had, before I was married, the best sex I'm ever going to get (still it was never as good as I imagined) but I'm suffering without a sex life and I use every opportunity available to try and masturbate it away (doesn't work btw).
I recently started having what I call "girlfriend" dreams. I dream about some fictitious I've just met and how we're getting to know each other a little better and there's an attraction blossoming. Some friendly touching and teasing comes about. It's a lot like high school flirtation. Then I wake up to my actual life and am sad the rest of the day. Sometimes I cry a little. I am often depressed about it. These dreams used to be infrequent but lately I have one every week or more often. It seems my deep rooted feelings about my life are clawing to the surface.
I'm not here and introducing myself for pity nor am I doing it in the hopes anyone will have earth-shattering advice for me. I'm not looking for "permission" to cheat or leave. As I've said, I've chosen this life. I could choose otherwise. I am introducing myself because it helps everyone to know others have been in this kind of pinch. Also misery, after all, loves company. I feel slightly better getting it all off my chest because I've not really told the whole story to anyone else.
So, hello forum. Please be gentle with me.
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Post by baza on Jan 22, 2019 15:57:36 GMT -5
G'day Brother iliasm . Welcome. And you are right...there is nothing whatsoever unique about your story.
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iliasm
New Member
Posts: 3
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by iliasm on Jan 22, 2019 16:21:11 GMT -5
G'day Brother iliasm . Welcome. And you are right...there is nothing whatsoever unique about your story. Thanks baza! Maybe I also should have also mentioned that my wife and I only dated a little over a year before getting married and we even took Gottman Institute courses in the 9 months prior to the birth of our daughter... ...but none of that really affects my story arc much. I took away more from the Gottman stuff than she did, certainly. I guess it might also matter that I learned (only a few years ago) her mom and dad haven't slept in the same bed for many years - wish I'd known that ten years ago. Probably wouldn't have changed anything though.
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Post by Handy on Jan 22, 2019 17:08:33 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum.
I read several places where Chairman Mao generation adults were encouraged to be non sexual. That might explain the parents. It probally spilled over to your W when she was growing up. And then again some people have little to no interest in sex, just like some people like and want sex everyday or a few want sex several times a day.
Current women in China insist a guy has money in the bank, an apartment that he has equity in, a job, can cook or she will find someone that has all of those assets. There is a shortage of women in China. BTW, Japan has it's own inhibited sexual issues.
My second observation is MOST females might say being a SAHD is equality but many secretly resent the SAHD for not earning money. 20 years ago I was in college and wrote a paper for a sociology class. There were other men in the class because of injuries, training for a new career. Your W might be OK, well sort of OK with you being a SAHD, but I bet her friends tell her any man that doesn't earn money is a freeloader.
Is there any chance you could get a part time job? It would give you more options if things stayed the same or don't improve. That is what I would do if I was in your situation.
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iliasm
New Member
Posts: 3
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by iliasm on Jan 22, 2019 22:31:57 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. I read several places where Chairman Mao generation adults were encouraged to be non sexual. That might explain the parents. It probally spilled over to your W when she was growing up. And then again some people have little to no interest in sex, just like some people like and want sex everyday or a few want sex several times a day. Current women in China insist a guy has money in the bank, an apartment that he has equity in, a job, can cook or she will find someone that has all of those assets. There is a shortage of women in China. BTW, Japan has it's own inhibited sexual issues. My second observation is MOST females might say being a SAHD is equality but many secretly resent the SAHD for not earning money. 20 years ago I was in college and wrote a paper for a sociology class. There were other men in the class because of injuries, training for a new career. Your W might be OK, well sort of OK with you being a SAHD, but I bet her friends tell her any man that doesn't earn money is a freeloader. Is there any chance you could get a part time job? It would give you more options if things stayed the same or don't improve. That is what I would do if I was in your situation. Thanks for the welcome! My wife finished her schooling (doctoral degree) on a scholarship. I was quite gainfully employed then and for many years prior. I certainly checked all the "asset" boxes you mentioned. My income was exceptional until the point I left work. She very much wanted to pursue her career and really couldn't stand the thought of being a stay-at-home-mom. Hence the move. I have passive income from both real estate and stocks so I bring in a monthly "check" as it were. It's modest but livable for someone single. Certainly it's quite a bit more than a full-time job at minimum wage would bring in. My income pays the mortgage and property taxes and her's pays the car loans, food, insurance and entertainment. She certainly doesn't think I'm a freeloader. I gave her an upper-middle class life while she was pursuing her advanced degrees. I'm not sure what her friends say but she doesn't have any really close ones. Mostly work associates and some of them are in similar situations. I know she actually cares about me. She just seems to be asexual and I'm 99.9% sure she's not having sex outside of the marriage. I believe, as you suggested, that the non-sexuality of her parents and the culture she was raised in has a major bearing. But then, she also did all in her power to escape that culture. Some things are so ingrained, I guess.
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Post by Handy on Jan 23, 2019 1:09:30 GMT -5
OK, it sounds like your income isn't the problem I thought it was.
So, then it is the sex hang-ups or she has no sex drive or sees you similar to being a brother is my only guess right now other than a cultural extreme. I suppose most women from her country do have sex but don't talk about it when she was growing up In this day and age it seems odd how I grew up. Even women would say PG instead of using the word pregnant. PG was OK but pregnant wasn't in my early 1950's life. Even on TV or in the movies, married couples with kids slept in separate beds.
There are people that are are or are almost totally asexual so that is a possibility. Then there are people that are overly concerned about icky things like genitals. Kind of like some girls are in second grade. "No guy is sticking that thing in me" Then when some girls are teenagers they are ok with having a boyfriend slobber (french kissing) all over them. Some never get to that point and stay stuck at the icky stage.
If your W is so career focused maybe she doesn't want to get pregnant and give up on her career. I gather she has a lot time and effort invested to get where she is now.
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Post by workingonit on Jan 23, 2019 10:09:54 GMT -5
iliasm welcome! Post on other parts of the forum as more people read and respond over there. Your story is not new but of course you are unique and have your own twist. You are among friends though.
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Post by nyctos on Jan 23, 2019 15:26:06 GMT -5
I don't really buy the "culture" argument. While different cultures do have sex more or less often, they all do it much more often than a sexless marriage. Surveys have shown the lowest frequency in Japan, where married couples have sex a median 48 times per year. That's almost once a week. greece.greekreporter.com/2014/05/30/greece-most-sexually-active-nation/Incidentally, the top most sexually active countries are: The top 10 most sexually active countries are: Greece: 164 Brazil: 145 Russia: 143 Poland: 143 India: 130 Mexico: 123 Switzerland: 123 China: 122 New Zealand: 122 Italy: 121 Given that Mexico is sixth, I think I'll go start lobbying against a border wall...
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Post by h on Jan 24, 2019 13:54:43 GMT -5
I don't really buy the "culture" argument. While different cultures do have sex more or less often, they all do it much more often than a sexless marriage. Surveys have shown the lowest frequency in Japan, where married couples have sex a median 48 times per year. That's almost once a week. greece.greekreporter.com/2014/05/30/greece-most-sexually-active-nation/Incidentally, the top most sexually active countries are: The top 10 most sexually active countries are: Greece: 164 Brazil: 145 Russia: 143 Poland: 143 India: 130 Mexico: 123 Switzerland: 123 China: 122 New Zealand: 122 Italy: 121 Given that Mexico is sixth, I think I'll go start lobbying against a border wall... I would like to see how far down the US ranks. I heard a news story about how the next generation here isn't interested in sex as much and how the decline in birth rate may actually lead to a point where more people die than are born.
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Post by nyctos on Jan 25, 2019 7:59:06 GMT -5
I don't really buy the "culture" argument. While different cultures do have sex more or less often, they all do it much more often than a sexless marriage. Surveys have shown the lowest frequency in Japan, where married couples have sex a median 48 times per year. That's almost once a week. greece.greekreporter.com/2014/05/30/greece-most-sexually-active-nation/Incidentally, the top most sexually active countries are: The top 10 most sexually active countries are: Greece: 164 Brazil: 145 Russia: 143 Poland: 143 India: 130 Mexico: 123 Switzerland: 123 China: 122 New Zealand: 122 Italy: 121 Given that Mexico is sixth, I think I'll go start lobbying against a border wall... I would like to see how far down the US ranks. I heard a news story about how the next generation here isn't interested in sex as much and how the decline in birth rate may actually lead to a point where more people die than are born. The US actually does pretty well within the lists I've seen (about a third of the way down in a list of sixty countries). That doesn't mean we're having lots of kids, though -- the fertility rate is about 1.8, which is lower than replacement rate of 2.1 (so indeed, currently there's more dying than being born). In the case of the US, immigration makes up the difference and keeps our population from falling. Countries such as Japan, South Korea, and China weren't as fortunate. Interestingly, the fertility rate for Greece is among the world's lowest at 1.3--so while they're getting plenty of action, they're not having a lot of kids...
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Post by isthisit on Jan 25, 2019 10:35:07 GMT -5
I would like to see how far down the US ranks. I heard a news story about how the next generation here isn't interested in sex as much and how the decline in birth rate may actually lead to a point where more people die than are born. The US actually does pretty well within the lists I've seen (about a third of the way down in a list of sixty countries). That doesn't mean we're having lots of kids, though -- the fertility rate is about 1.8, which is lower than replacement rate of 2.1 (so indeed, currently there's more dying than being born). In the case of the US, immigration makes up the difference and keeps our population from falling. Countries such as Japan, South Korea, and China weren't as fortunate. Interestingly, the fertility rate for Greece is among the world's lowest at 1.3--so while they're getting plenty of action, they're not having a lot of kids... Probably why hey have the energy for the action?
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Post by angeleyes65 on Feb 4, 2019 17:10:47 GMT -5
timestamp="1458778746"] New to the ILIASM forum? Please introduce yourself on this thread; just press " Reply". Long time lurker? It's never too late... please introduce yourself when you are ready. After your first post here, wheissues"]Sexless Marriage Issues[/a] board; click " Create Thread" there. New members should read through the threads in the " Welcome
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Post by angeleyes65 on Feb 4, 2019 17:15:46 GMT -5
Hi, I'm 53 was married for 35 years before I left. I was on experience project on this sexless marriage thread. I finally left 18 months ago. Divorce is final and I am loving life. It's hard but so worth it. I thought I should come back and give others hope that are trying to get out and wonder what happens after. This site on EP gave me a lot of solace knowing I wasnt alone.
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