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Post by csl on Jul 27, 2016 18:02:56 GMT -5
Hello, I am a somewhat newly-minted marriage & sex blogger, and have been addressing sexuality, marriage, refusal and divorce for nearly two years now on my Curmudgeonly Librarian blog. I am not a professional in any sense of the word; I am merely a man who has been married for 46 years, and due to how our marriage...., well, spiraled down, took steps to learn about and address sexless marriages. I am fully aware that I'm not all-knowing, all-wise, etc., but I do believe that marriage is too important to screw up, allow to stay screwed up and/or abandon willy-nilly without first attempting to fix problems. If interested in our story, the first of five posts can be found here: The Why and How of Our Now. I say this ahead of time, I approach my writing from a Christian standpoint and make no apologies for it. If that's offensive to you, it would be best not to open yourself up to that offence. I am somewhat of an oddball amongst my fellow believers, in that I am not an absolutest about marriage and divorce. Yes, I uphold Christian teaching about monogamy and faithfulness, but I do not accept that once you're married, you're stuck for life. I'm not attempting to spam this forum; in the Intro section, I asked if posting a link would be appropriate, and one of the moderators told me to post here. I hope that if you read my posts, you will be encouraged in your marriages. God bless...... |
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Post by baza on Jul 27, 2016 20:58:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the post and the link.
It looks like a "must read" for why chasers.
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 28, 2016 1:30:33 GMT -5
Congratulations on your 46 yrs of married life. And thank you for sharing your story.
I recently asked an older couple, who have been married over 50 yrs, their advise for staying married, and the husband said, 'You have to stay away from her.' (He loves her and did not mean it in a negative manner, and instead a practical one.) Your story is quite different. You two are inseparable. Perhaps akin to being soulmates. And you still have intimacy and sexual activity which I doubt is present in theirs.
The disability in the latter part of your marriage has had a big effect on the intimacy. How was the intimacy in the prior 25-30 yrs of your marriage? Did she desire sex comparably to you? Also, was divorce or separation an option for you?
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Post by samedeepwater on Jul 28, 2016 7:27:43 GMT -5
Anyone who can fit the word "shibboleth" into an ordinary conversation is ok in my book. There is much meat on the bone and I have read only a small fraction of what you have posted, but I have you bookmarked and I will be a frequent visitor. I'm a sucker for good writing, and I pretend to do some of my own on occasion.
Thus far, my life has been profoundly shaped by religion and my now former (can I get an amen?!) sexless marriage. It was only as I was doing the work on myself as I was leaving said marriage that I realized how intertwined were the two.
I'll look for you around the water cooler. I have a feeling we may end up having some very interesting conversations.
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Post by csl on Jul 28, 2016 7:39:22 GMT -5
Congratulations on your 46 yrs of married life. And thank you for sharing your story. I recently asked an older couple, who have been married over 50 yrs, their advise for staying married, and the husband said, 'You have to stay away from her.' (He loves her and did not mean it in a negative manner, and instead a practical one.) Your story is quite different. You two are inseparable. Perhaps akin to being soulmates. And you still have intimacy and sexual activity which I doubt is present in theirs. The disability in the latter part of your marriage has had a big effect on the intimacy. How was the intimacy in the prior 25-30 yrs of your marriage? Did she desire sex comparably to you? Also, was divorce or separation an option for you? I was always the higher drive spouse (actually, still am), and Wife was not so much a refuser as a gatekeeper, dictating the acceptable methods and limits. (This was due to her being abused by her father) But I wasn't starved so much as stifled. However, my Dad died in 2007, and Wife says that I went into a depression that didn't life for several years. I don't remember it like that, but she's probably right. What I do remember is that for several years prior to The Talk of New Year's Eve, I had gotten to the point that the only place I could sleep was in my living room recliner chair, and so didn't even try coming upstairs. My way of initiating sex was to climb the stairs on Saturday mornings. As I mentioned in my post, due to misunderstanding on both our parts, we assumed incorrect ideas and attitudes, and so as not to "inflict" myself on her (GCH to the last!), only came upstairs once a month in 2010. She thought I was in too much pain for sex and her lot in life was to take care of an invalid. What I didn't know was that she missed sex, too, and had to resort to self-service every couple of weeks to maintain. So, yes, I wanted and she needed, I was depressed and she was sad. Did she desire sex? Not as often as I did, but yes, she did, and still does. But through communication we've learned that her drive isn't as high as mine, but more than happily makes sure that I don't ..., erm, fall into the Needy category. And she has learned that it isn't about me and my jollies, but that I truly desire for her to enjoy pleasure, that what with my physical limitations in life, giving her pleasure is one of the few ways I can 'minister' to her physically. Which goes a love toward why we both can see sexual intimacy as giving and receiving love. No, but back then, I was a staunch "God Hates Divorce!" guy, teaching Malachi 2:16 with wonderous fervor. But that doesn't mean I wanted to live. I had retired in 2010 due to my arthritis, and I had accomplished my goal, which was to make sure that Wife had a pension should I go first, and so my prayers included telling God that I was ready to go and please, "Just take me." And for Christians, I'm not alone. A fellow blogger and Christian that I know has a page of stories by refused husbands who are Christians that is a marvel of depression. Loneliness, misery, even wanting to die. Many tell of feeling trapped by their faith in loveless marriages; one guy wrote anonymously to say "it would look like an accident" so the insurance company wouldn't be able to deny the claim. All this is what pushes my writing on Curmudgeonly Librarian. As I said, I'm not a professional; I'm merely one beggar trying to tell other beggars where he found food. CSL |
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Post by csl on Jul 28, 2016 7:48:27 GMT -5
Anyone who can fit the word "shibboleth" into an ordinary conversation is ok in my book. There is much meat on the bone and I have read only a small fraction of what you have posted, but I have you bookmarked and I will be a frequent visitor. I'm a sucker for good writing, and I pretend to do some of my own on occasion. Thus far, my life has been profoundly shaped by religion and my now former (can I get an amen?!) sexless marriage. It was only as I was doing the work on myself as I was leaving said marriage that I realized how intertwined were the two. I'll look for you around the water cooler. I have a feeling we may end up having some very interesting conversations. "Shibboleth", huh? I was had a woman reader swoon because I used the word "strumpet". Different strokes for different folks.  Ah, then you know the gist of my six-part posts I did last fall on Waiting, Watching, Working. No rush, you've got it bookmarked and will come across it eventually. baza - Thank you for your kinds words. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 29, 2016 0:23:01 GMT -5
I was always the higher drive spouse (actually, still am), and Wife was not so much a refuser as a gatekeeper, dictating the acceptable methods and limits. (This was due to her being abused by her father) But I wasn't starved so much as stifled. However, my Dad died in 2007, and Wife says that I went into a depression that didn't life for several years. I don't remember it like that, but she's probably right. What I do remember is that for several years prior to The Talk of New Year's Eve, I had gotten to the point that the only place I could sleep was in my living room recliner chair, and so didn't even try coming upstairs. My way of initiating sex was to climb the stairs on Saturday mornings. As I mentioned in my post, due to misunderstanding on both our parts, we assumed incorrect ideas and attitudes, and so as not to "inflict" myself on her (GCH to the last!), only came upstairs once a month in 2010. She thought I was in too much pain for sex and her lot in life was to take care of an invalid. What I didn't know was that she missed sex, too, and had to resort to self-service every couple of weeks to maintain. So, yes, I wanted and she needed, I was depressed and she was sad. Did she desire sex? Not as often as I did, but yes, she did, and still does. But through communication we've learned that her drive isn't as high as mine, but more than happily makes sure that I don't ..., erm, fall into the Needy category. And she has learned that it isn't about me and my jollies, but that I truly desire for her to enjoy pleasure, that what with my physical limitations in life, giving her pleasure is one of the few ways I can 'minister' to her physically. Which goes a love toward why we both can see sexual intimacy as giving and receiving love. No, but back then, I was a staunch "God Hates Divorce!" guy, teaching Malachi 2:16 with wonderous fervor. But that doesn't mean I wanted to live. I had retired in 2010 due to my arthritis, and I had accomplished my goal, which was to make sure that Wife had a pension should I go first, and so my prayers included telling God that I was ready to go and please, "Just take me." And for Christians, I'm not alone. A fellow blogger and Christian that I know has a page of stories by refused husbands who are Christians that is a marvel of depression. Loneliness, misery, even wanting to die. Many tell of feeling trapped by their faith in loveless marriages; one guy wrote anonymously to say "it would look like an accident" so the insurance company wouldn't be able to deny the claim. All this is what pushes my writing on Curmudgeonly Librarian. As I said, I'm not a professional; I'm merely one beggar trying to tell other beggars where he found food. CSL What if there is no misunderstanding, as in the other blogs? She just prefers no sexual intimacy. Then a Christian faithful to Malachi 2:16 is caught in a sexless marriage. "Yes, I uphold Christian teaching about monogamy and faithfulness, but I do not accept that once you're married, you're stuck for life." Do you think then that she really should minister to him physically although it is not her preference? I don't see another way to get unstuck faithfully. (Wanting to die is not a Christian virtue or option to get unstuck.) |
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Post by csl on Jul 29, 2016 10:38:45 GMT -5
What if there is no misunderstanding, as in the other blogs? She just prefers no sexual intimacy. Then a Christian faithful to Malachi 2:16 is caught in a sexless marriage. "Yes, I uphold Christian teaching about monogamy and faithfulness, but I do not accept that once you're married, you're stuck for life." Do you think then that she really should minister to him physically although it is not her preference? I don't see another way to get unstuck faithfully. (Wanting to die is not a Christian virtue or option to get unstuck.) As to being caught 'cause of Mal. 2:16,.... ahem, note the Instone-Brewer books? He does a good job taking that apart, and I use some of that in my Marital Idolatry series, one of my first bits of writing. By the by, notice these two verses: * “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God (NIV) * “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD (NIV) These are both Mal. 2:16, and both are from the NIV. But the second one doesn't say "I HATE DIVORCE", does it? Read my post to find out why. I don't want to turn iliasm into my theological sandbox. (needless to say, the absolutist "God hates divorce" is untenable when you realize that God got divorced.) Should she? Duh, yeah!! There are many 'unwritten & unspoken' promises made in the "I do's", such as provision, support, and fidelity. And that word fidelity is interesting. Remember the old vows, "Keeping myself only unto you"? Refusing is a violation of that promise, isn't it, as the refuser is only "keeping myself FROM you." Okay, that's enough of the theology portion of the sermon this a.m.; the key is a phrase I like--'good-willed'. A good-willed spouse wants to provide what make the other happy and better, to serve. (okay, just one more tidbit--Martin Luther wrote that abandonment of the marriage bed (refusal) was grounds for divorce.) |
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 29, 2016 11:22:42 GMT -5
(needless to say, the absolutist "God hates divorce" is untenable when you realize that God got divorced.) God got divorced? Hold on, the ground is shaking. |
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Post by angryspartan on Jul 30, 2016 1:13:45 GMT -5
What if there is no misunderstanding, as in the other blogs? She just prefers no sexual intimacy. Then a Christian faithful to Malachi 2:16 is caught in a sexless marriage. "Yes, I uphold Christian teaching about monogamy and faithfulness, but I do not accept that once you're married, you're stuck for life." Do you think then that she really should minister to him physically although it is not her preference? I don't see another way to get unstuck faithfully. (Wanting to die is not a Christian virtue or option to get unstuck.) As to being caught 'cause of Mal. 2:16,.... ahem, note the Instone-Brewer books? He does a good job taking that apart, and I use some of that in my Marital Idolatry series, one of my first bits of writing. By the by, notice these two verses: * “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God (NIV) * “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD (NIV) These are both Mal. 2:16, and both are from the NIV. But the second one doesn't say "I HATE DIVORCE", does it? Read my post to find out why. I don't want to turn iliasm into my theological sandbox. (needless to say, the absolutist "God hates divorce" is untenable when you realize that God got divorced.) Should she? Duh, yeah!! There are many 'unwritten & unspoken' promises made in the "I do's", such as provision, support, and fidelity. And that word fidelity is interesting. Remember the old vows, "Keeping myself only unto you"? Refusing is a violation of that promise, isn't it, as the refuser is only "keeping myself FROM you." Okay, that's enough of the theology portion of the sermon this a.m.; the key is a phrase I like--'good-willed'. A good-willed spouse wants to provide what make the other happy and better, to serve. (okay, just one more tidbit--Martin Luther wrote that abandonment of the marriage bed (refusal) was grounds for divorce.) God got divorced? Do tell.... |
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Post by csl on Jul 30, 2016 8:06:34 GMT -5
God got divorced? Do tell.... - as I said, I don't want to spam iliasm, not make it my personal theological sandbox, but here are the two verses where God speaks of His divorce: Thus says the Lord: “ Where is your mother's certificate of divorce,
with which I sent her away?Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities you were sold,
and for your transgressions your mother was sent away. (Is. 50:1) and She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore. (Jer. 3:8) CSL |
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