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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 12:24:33 GMT -5
We've talked about our lack of sex life before, but it's been a while. And, on the advice of my therapist (since he's supposed to be seeing his GP and addressing possible physiological issues), I didn't really mention sex except to tell him I feel like he doesn't want me sexually. His response was that he doesn't know why I would feel that way...so clearly, that's a conversation that we'll need to have.
I stuck with my feelings of being alone, and feeling like he doesn't really want me around. He was really surprised that I felt this way, because he's either at work or home...so he had trouble initially grasping the "being alone with someone else" concept. He told me that affection is really hard for him, and he has to work to show affection to the kids. I asked him why he couldn't work to show affection to me, and he said he would try.
He mentioned that he's always been a loner, and I asked why choose to be with me, then, if he's more comfortable being alone. He said "because I love you." For the record, aside from repeating it after the officiant at our wedding, this was the first time he's said those words to me while sober.
He told me that the reason he works so much is for the kids and me, and that that's the only way he really knows to show affection. I've at least suspected for a while that buying things and providing are part of his love language, and noticed what was probably some depression after we lost my income and we had almost no disposable income. I know it's also the reason he's procrastinated bankruptcy for so long, despite the fact that we desperately need to do something drastic about his debt. His identity is completely tied up in providing for his family, and his father didn't set the best example in that regard (when he lost his business and wasn't the main wage earner in the house, he moved out and later divorced my MIL).
I was really happy with his response last night, though. I have a huge fear of confrontation or talking about my needs because my needs/thoughts/feelings were completely disregarded or mocked when I was growing up. He didn't get defensive, and he did seem receptive to what I was saying. And he kissed me goodbye before work this morning, which he hasn't done in years. I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic. At the very least, I feel lighter for having gotten things off my chest.
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Post by Neotericgal on Jul 22, 2016 13:10:09 GMT -5
You go lady, for having the courage to speak up about your feelings to your partner. It does seem as though he is receptive to hearing you out and trying to understand what you are saying, and his kiss (to me) sounds like he was feeling a bit more connected to you as well. I sincerely hope this is a beginning to improved dialogue for you two.
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 22, 2016 13:14:15 GMT -5
Glad you feel better. You both need to continue talking.
You need to express your needs and he needs to make good on them.
If he's not capable then don't waste too much time.
Talk talk talk! He is now the one with the bigger problem whether he realizes it or not. He better take advantage of the fact that you still love him and are willing to work on it with him.
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 16:30:34 GMT -5
Glad you feel better. You both need to continue talking. You need to express your needs and he needs to make good on them. If he's not capable then don't waste too much time. Talk talk talk! He is now the one with the bigger problem whether he realizes it or not. He better take advantage of the fact that you still love him and are willing to work on it with him. The talking may actually be the hardest part for me after spending my entire life suppressing all of my feelings/beliefs/needs to avoid the backlash from my parents. I also have a tendency to shoulder blame, even when it's not mine to take. I can't physically or financially go anywhere for probably 2-3 years or more, so I want to make sure I feel like I've left it all on the field so to speak. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 22, 2016 16:52:15 GMT -5
Glad you feel better. You both need to continue talking. You need to express your needs and he needs to make good on them. If he's not capable then don't waste too much time. Talk talk talk! He is now the one with the bigger problem whether he realizes it or not. He better take advantage of the fact that you still love him and are willing to work on it with him. The talking may actually be the hardest part for me after spending my entire life suppressing all of my feelings/beliefs/needs to avoid the backlash from my parents. I also have a tendency to shoulder blame, even when it's not mine to take. I can't physically or financially go anywhere for probably 2-3 years or more, so I want to make sure I feel like I've left it all on the field so to speak. If you don't already, individual therapy is probably a good idea to help you learn how to find your voice and advocate for yourself and your point of view. For example when he said he doesn't understand why you feel not desired. Responding with an answer and holding him accountable for that why is important. If I were talking to my husband I would have said because we never have sex. The issue is still fresh, bring it up, figure out together if you are going to improve things and if you are put a plan in writing together how you will do this. Like a contract. Breech of contract will have consequences. Bottom line he needs to know if things don't get better then he shouldn't expect you to stick around for ten more years. His actions will guide you. |
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 17:18:36 GMT -5
The talking may actually be the hardest part for me after spending my entire life suppressing all of my feelings/beliefs/needs to avoid the backlash from my parents. I also have a tendency to shoulder blame, even when it's not mine to take. I can't physically or financially go anywhere for probably 2-3 years or more, so I want to make sure I feel like I've left it all on the field so to speak. If you don't already, individual therapy is probably a good idea to help you learn how to find your voice and advocate for yourself and your point of view. For example when he said he doesn't understand why you feel not desired. Responding with an answer and holding him accountable for that why is important. If I were talking to my husband I would have said because we never have sex. The issue is still fresh, bring it up, figure out together if you are going to improve things and if you are put a plan in writing together how you will do this. Like a contract. Breech of contract will have consequences. Bottom line he needs to know if things don't get better then he shouldn't expect you to stick around for ten more years. His actions will guide you. I am in individual therapy, and when I brought up the SM issue and lack of intimacy (as I told her, it's so much more the lack of intimacy than the lack of sex, because I am totally capable of getting myself off), she asked what I wanted the end goal to be if he doesn't change and helped me come up with a plan of what issues I wanted to address first. I like the idea of putting things in writing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 18:21:49 GMT -5
"I'll try"... I'm sorry, I know you felt better after this conversation, but they say "I'll try" to get you off their back. He is not going to try.
Even if he does try, how good a sex life do you think you'll have with a man who has to put effort into being affectionate? People who have The Talk have to understand this. The odds of any change are slim, but the odds of your refuser transforming into a passionate lover are worse yet.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 22, 2016 18:47:28 GMT -5
litnerd... I don't want to diminish his progress, but when you're standing at the bottom of a hole, any progress looks good. If he succeeds in what he commits to "trying", how close to your "minimum acceptable" will he get, and how long will it take? Progress is good, but is the minimum attainable for him now? I get frustrated by the focused effort it seems to take for so many of our refuses (if they can even be bothered). How it it become so difficult to be affectionate?
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Post by baza on Jul 22, 2016 19:33:24 GMT -5
Appears that you are in individual counselling Sister litnerd.
That's good.
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"I have a huge fear of confrontation or talking about my needs" - you say. That is a good thing to work at. Producing a much more assertive outlook on your life will serve you well, irrespective of where your marriage ends up.
It reads very much like you need to wrest control of your life back, as your spouse has been a Godawful custodian of the financial, emotional and sexual aspects of your deal so far.
Best that *your* choices are made by someone who has *your* best longer term interests at heart.
That someone being *you*.
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If *you* get yourself right, and adopt a policy of making your choices based on your longer term best interests, you can't go too far wrong.
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It would be unwise to think that your spouse is going to play much of a supporting role in your quest to uncover the authentic litnerd, indeed it is far more likely that he will try and thwart it, as he has a vested interest in things staying pretty much as they are and have been.
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HUGE job ahead of you Sister litnerd, but oh so worthwhile to undertake it.
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 19:41:42 GMT -5
"I'll try"... I'm sorry, I know you felt better after this conversation, but they say "I'll try" to get you off their back. He is not going to try. Even if he does try, how good a sex life do you think you'll have with a man who has to put effort into being affectionate? People who have The Talk have to understand this. The odds of any change are slim, but the odds of your refuser transforming into a passionate lover are worse yet. This is the issue I need to bring up, too. Because we had an amazing sex life for a while. It was like a switch flipped, and the frequency went to almost nil...but it was still amazing when it happened. Which is why I have a hard time accepting his word that he's still attracted to me. Potential physiological or infidelity issues aside (and I've never found any indication outside of my own subconscious), I can't think of any reason a man would just suddenly stop wanting to have frequent, kinky sex with a willing partner unless he just wasn't attracted anymore. |
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 19:49:00 GMT -5
litnerd... I don't want to diminish his progress, but when you're standing at the bottom of a hole, any progress looks good. If he succeeds in what he commits to "trying", how close to your "minimum acceptable" will he get, and how long will it take? Progress is good, but is the minimum attainable for him now? I get frustrated by the focused effort it seems to take for so many of our refuses (if they can even be bothered). How it it become so difficult to be affectionate? Affection outside of sex is difficult for me, so I kind of get it...but I've almost always been willing to show affection with him. As far as him making progress, I'll take what I can get right now. Even if there's no progress, my exit plan is very long term because of my health/kids/finances. If he's willing to make an effort now, while I still don't have any desire to be with anyone else, I'm taking it. |
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 19:58:24 GMT -5
Appears that you are in individual counselling Sister litnerd. That's good. - "I have a huge fear of confrontation or talking about my needs" - you say. That is a good thing to work at. Producing a much more assertive outlook on your life will serve you well, irrespective of where your marriage ends up. It reads very much like you need to wrest control of your life back, as your spouse has been a Godawful custodian of the financial, emotional and sexual aspects of your deal so far. Best that *your* choices are made by someone who has *your* best longer term interests at heart. That someone being *you*. - If *you* get yourself right, and adopt a policy of making your choices based on your longer term best interests, you can't go too far wrong. - It would be unwise to think that your spouse is going to play much of a supporting role in your quest to uncover the authentic litnerd, indeed it is far more likely that he will try and thwart it, as he has a vested interest in things staying pretty much as they are and have been. - HUGE job ahead of you Sister litnerd, but oh so worthwhile to undertake it. The financial issues we have are mostly from before our relationship. He had a massive amount of debt, and we haven't been able to climb out of that hole because he's working overtime just to pay the bills. I can't go back to work because the cost of childcare at this point would be more than my net pay. It's a vicious cycle, and he's actually been great at managing our finances to keep us afloat for this long...I would just like to see him concede and start over. We both made mistakes (unfortunately, my debt is student debt, so there's no starting over there) financially, so the blame falls on us equally. He's just the one who's reluctant to start over, and I think a lot of it is just ego. I've definitely been working on my communication and boundaries. I was raised in a household where I wasn't allowed to say "No," and that has not served me well as an adult. So I've been enforcing a lot of boundaries lately, and putting my own health and the needs of my children first. The communication part still needs a lot of work, but I'm optimistic about my progress so far. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 27, 2016 2:46:16 GMT -5
He mentioned that he's always been a loner, and I asked why choose to be with me, then, if he's more comfortable being alone. He said "because I love you." For the record, aside from repeating it after the officiant at our wedding, this was the first time he's said those words to me while sober. ... I was really happy with his response last night, though. I have a huge fear of confrontation or talking about my needs because my needs/thoughts/feelings were completely disregarded or mocked when I was growing up. He didn't get defensive, and he did seem receptive to what I was saying. And he kissed me goodbye before work this morning, which he hasn't done in years. I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic. At the very least, I feel lighter for having gotten things off my chest. I like being optimistic. Hopefully he keeps the show of affection going. You should remind him if he forgets. Your H seems like a nice guy to me. I am also a loner. Loners are capable of loving someone too. Keep up the open communication, and good luck. This is off topic, but got me laughing anyway. I'm flying back and sat next to a woman. I notice that she was sitting on my seatbelt buckle. I was tempted to gently tug at it but it was really under her. So I told her to please let me have my buckle so I don't have to pull it from under her. She replied, Yes, it's too early in the day for that. We started laughing, and I was surprised how she can talk like that to a stranger. (from Puerto Rico, with her 15 yr old son sitting next to her and her husband was one row in front.) I am going to guess that she is not LIASM. |
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Post by litnerd on Jul 27, 2016 11:15:44 GMT -5
He mentioned that he's always been a loner, and I asked why choose to be with me, then, if he's more comfortable being alone. He said "because I love you." For the record, aside from repeating it after the officiant at our wedding, this was the first time he's said those words to me while sober. ... I was really happy with his response last night, though. I have a huge fear of confrontation or talking about my needs because my needs/thoughts/feelings were completely disregarded or mocked when I was growing up. He didn't get defensive, and he did seem receptive to what I was saying. And he kissed me goodbye before work this morning, which he hasn't done in years. I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic. At the very least, I feel lighter for having gotten things off my chest. I like being optimistic. Hopefully he keeps the show of affection going. You should remind him if he forgets. Your H seems like a nice guy to me. I am also a loner. Loners are capable of loving someone too. Keep up the open communication, and good luck. This is off topic, but got me laughing anyway. I'm flying back and sat next to a woman. I notice that she was sitting on my seatbelt buckle. I was tempted to gently tug at it but it was really under her. So I told her to please let me have my buckle so I don't have to pull it from under her. She replied, Yes, it's too early in the day for that. We started laughing, and I was surprised how she can talk like that to a stranger. (from Puerto Rico, with her 15 yr old son sitting next to her and her husband was one row in front.) I am going to guess that she is not LIASM. I've been somewhat deflated this week after 2 attempts at sex were unsuccessful, and I ended up sleeping on the couch once because he complains about me taking up too much space in the bed (our mattress sags in the middle, so every time he moves, I slide into him) and the fact that I sleep naked. Aside from (I think) putting his arm over me in my sleep last night and mentioning finding a sitter for the kids so we can go to lunch at the craft beer and burger place we like and go see Star Trek next week, it's been life as usual. My children have also decided to not go to sleep on time, so there's been no child-free opportunities to bring things up again. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 27, 2016 12:43:56 GMT -5
I've been somewhat deflated this week after 2 attempts at sex were unsuccessful, and I ended up sleeping on the couch once because he complains about me taking up too much space in the bed (our mattress sags in the middle, so every time he moves, I slide into him) and the fact that I sleep naked. Aside from (I think) putting his arm over me in my sleep last night and mentioning finding a sitter for the kids so we can go to lunch at the craft beer and burger place we like and go see Star Trek next week, it's been life as usual. My children have also decided to not go to sleep on time, so there's been no child-free opportunities to bring things up again.
Sorry for the latest attempt fails.  There was a post a while back about the 40 Beads Method. You basically put a red bead on a bowl each time you want to have sex and your partner will know that you want sex and he should make time with you within a couple of days. (My wife thinks it is silly and dismissed it.) Perhaps this can be something fun and can work with you? Burger and Star Trek sounds nice still. When are you due? |
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