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Post by Caris on Jul 21, 2016 13:52:17 GMT -5
"Trying to get love from people who don’t treasure our gifts is usually an exercise in self-punishment. In addition to the pain of the relationship, there is a secondary cost: they imprint upon us that our gifts, those most sacred and essential parts of ourselves, are somehow flawed and shameful.
If these attractions are so painful, why isn’t it easier to break free of them? One reason is that "attractions of deprivation" are what behavioral theorists call “intermittent reward systems.” In these systems you get rewarded only sporadically and you can’t control when the reward will come. Intermittent reward systems are the most compelling form of reinforcement and the hardest to break free of."
~ from "Deeper Dating" a book and workbook I am studying as part of my own healing process. However, there is much that pertains to any relationship, and I see sporadic affection and "reset sex" here too.
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Post by needtoresolve on Jul 21, 2016 13:58:44 GMT -5
For me it's a different thing. My wife is mentally ill. There are times when, occasionally, I can get glimpses of the woman I fell in love with and married, trapped in the middle of the pain and the despair and the anger and the rage. Now and then she looks back at me and I can see her. As long as I can still see her in there, I will not leave that part of her. The rest I can endure, barely.
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Post by Caris on Jul 21, 2016 14:06:29 GMT -5
needtoresolve, you have the compassion and care that so many refusers do not have for their husbands and wives. I think when the refuser is mentally or physically afflicted it is a different case. The result is the same for their partner, but it is not intentional. Maybe one derives strength from this, knowing apart from the affliction, you would not be rejected. Your sense of worth may be more intact than those who are deliberately rejected. Just a thought.
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Post by litnerd on Jul 21, 2016 16:14:51 GMT -5
needtoresolve, you have the compassion and care that so many refusers do not have for their husbands and wives. I think when the refuser is mentally or physically afflicted it is a different case. The result is the same for their partner, but it is not intentional. Maybe one derives strength from this, knowing apart from the affliction, you would not be rejected. Your sense of worth may be more intact than those who are deliberately rejected. Just a thought. I think it also helps that there is a known reason that your marriage is sexless. Instead of chasing the "why," the spouses of refusers with physical and mental illnesses can focus their energy on the "how." |
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Post by baza on Jul 21, 2016 21:30:24 GMT -5
The intermittent reward strategy is about the most effective strategy in existence to control dogs, or spouses for that matter.
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It'll work on a dog forever once you have the principles in place.
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It will work on a spouse for a long time, until such time as the spouse catches a clue (and some spouses never do catch that clue) and even then, many spouses will still fall victim to it, even once they realise they are being manipulated in this way.
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It is one hard thing to identify that one is being played in such a way.
It is another even harder thing to acknowledge that one has being played in such a way for such a long time.
It is another even harder thing to cease falling for this strategy.
And, to vacate such a situation (because that's the only remedy) is yet another harder thing still.
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Post by iceman on Jul 22, 2016 8:26:41 GMT -5
For me it's a different thing. My wife is mentally ill. There are times when, occasionally, I can get glimpses of the woman I fell in love with and married, trapped in the middle of the pain and the despair and the anger and the rage. Now and then she looks back at me and I can see her. As long as I can still see her in there, I will not leave that part of her. The rest I can endure, barely. This is similar to my wife. I realize she has physical and emotional issues that contribute to our situation that have gotten worse as time goes on. Occasionally, though increasingly infrequently, I see the women I fell in love with. And even less often we actually have sex. It used to be just enough of a 'reward' to keep me engaged in the marriage. But, it has become so infrequent now that those times no longer bring me back to engaging in the marriage. Even at her best our intimate life was very unsatisfactory to me so these increasingly long dry periods are not an anomaly that I can contribute totally to her physical and emotional issues. We are simply incompatible when it comes to physical intimacy. It's not that one of is right or wrong. We're just different. The problem for me is that I know she needs my support to deal with her issues, and I try, but I just don't have the energy or strength to keep putting my needs aside to do that. I feel very guilty about that. If throughout the marriage we were able to support each other emotionally and physically it would be different but that's not the case. I come to this situation emotionally drained from years of a lack of emotional support from my wife and I just don't have a lot to give to her. |
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Post by LITW on Jul 22, 2016 13:29:03 GMT -5
needtoresolve , you have the compassion and care that so many refusers do not have for their husbands and wives. I think when the refuser is mentally or physically afflicted it is a different case. The result is the same for their partner, but it is not intentional. Maybe one derives strength from this, knowing apart from the affliction, you would not be rejected. Your sense of worth may be more intact than those who are deliberately rejected. Just a thought. I think it also helps that there is a known reason that your marriage is sexless. Instead of chasing the "why," the spouses of refusers with physical and mental illnesses can focus their energy on the "how." I have to agree here ... my marriage is sexless because of my wife's mental health issues as well. I know the "why", and although it does not make it easier, it does make me want to stay because I would feel terrible about just abandoning her (which is how it would feel to her.) The "how" then falls completely on me because she does not seem to want to make any changes. That is my challenge, and my struggle. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 13:35:23 GMT -5
needtoresolve, you have the compassion and care that so many refusers do not have for their husbands and wives. I think when the refuser is mentally or physically afflicted it is a different case. The result is the same for their partner, but it is not intentional. Maybe one derives strength from this, knowing apart from the affliction, you would not be rejected. Your sense of worth may be more intact than those who are deliberately rejected. Just a thought. I think it also helps that there is a known reason that your marriage is sexless. Instead of chasing the "why," the spouses of refusers with physical and mental illnesses can focus their energy on the "how." Keeping in mind that the sick person/person with a problem still needs to own their part of the problem and do whatever they reasonably can do to improve things. Sometimes people are legitimately sick, but then they use that as a way to manipulate other people and get out of doing things they don't want to do. |
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 13:54:21 GMT -5
I think it also helps that there is a known reason that your marriage is sexless. Instead of chasing the "why," the spouses of refusers with physical and mental illnesses can focus their energy on the "how." Keeping in mind that the sick person/person with a problem still needs to own their part of the problem and do whatever they reasonably can do to improve things. Sometimes people are legitimately sick, but then they use that as a way to manipulate other people and get out of doing things they don't want to do. Yes. My father has been "sick" for over a decade. While he has legitimate illnesses (and my mom and I don't exactly discuss our sex lives), they are almost all within his control to change. He's continually made decisions (or chose not to make decisions) that sabotaged his health, and then blames anyone but himself. He definitely uses it as a manipulation tool against my mom, and anyone else who will allow themselves to be manipulated. I've refused. That, of course, makes me the "bad one," and he talks a lot of shit about me to anyone who will listen. |
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Post by needtoresolve on Jul 22, 2016 14:20:39 GMT -5
Keeping in mind that the sick person/person with a problem still needs to own their part of the problem and do whatever they reasonably can do to improve things. Sometimes people are legitimately sick, but then they use that as a way to manipulate other people and get out of doing things they don't want to do. Yes. My father has been "sick" for over a decade. While he has legitimate illnesses (and my mom and I don't exactly discuss our sex lives), they are almost all within his control to change. He's continually made decisions (or chose not to make decisions) that sabotaged his health, and then blames anyone but himself. He definitely uses it as a manipulation tool against my mom, and anyone else who will allow themselves to be manipulated. I've refused. That, of course, makes me the "bad one," and he talks a lot of shit about me to anyone who will listen. That sounds to me like its driven by an alcoholic temperament. If that's it, the thing can be deadly abusive and destructive as hell.. |
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Post by litnerd on Jul 22, 2016 14:40:08 GMT -5
Yes. My father has been "sick" for over a decade. While he has legitimate illnesses (and my mom and I don't exactly discuss our sex lives), they are almost all within his control to change. He's continually made decisions (or chose not to make decisions) that sabotaged his health, and then blames anyone but himself. He definitely uses it as a manipulation tool against my mom, and anyone else who will allow themselves to be manipulated. I've refused. That, of course, makes me the "bad one," and he talks a lot of shit about me to anyone who will listen. That sounds to me like its driven by an alcoholic temperament. If that's it, the thing can be deadly abusive and destructive as hell.. You're pretty much dead on. Not alcohol, but narcodics. He definitely has that addict mentality with a healthy dose of what my therapist believes is NPD. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 14:45:47 GMT -5
That sounds to me like its driven by an alcoholic temperament. If that's it, the thing can be deadly abusive and destructive as hell.. You're pretty much dead on. Not alcohol, but narcodics. He definitely has that addict mentality with a healthy dose of what my therapist believes is NPD. My ex (the refuser) who has legit health problems but does not do much about changing them, developed a problem with Percocet for a while. |
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Post by adventura on Jul 22, 2016 15:09:05 GMT -5
Keeping in mind that the sick person/person with a problem still needs to own their part of the problem and do whatever they reasonably can do to improve things. Sometimes people are legitimately sick, but then they use that as a way to manipulate other people and get out of doing things they don't want to do. Bingo, Smartkat - and there are substantial rewards in staying as sick as possible if the sick person is inclined toward manipulation. Not saying that's the case with all of the marriages on this forum. But I will say that if you really look objectively at your own situation, it might be easier than you think to figure out whether there's some malingering in the picture. |
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