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Post by ggold on Jul 21, 2016 12:13:49 GMT -5
I saw this quote and it made me think. When reading the experiences of others on this forum, I try to withhold judgement. We are all in different circumstances and are doing the best we can. We struggle. We have our ups and downs. We support and uplift one another. Sometimes, we do judge though. Can we really, truly know someone and what they are internally dealing with just through their writing? We can only go by what is written. We know each other through our words here on this forum. We have to remember, there's more to all of us than our words. I'm not saying that we shouldn't express our feelings, be honest with one another, and give tough love. I think, before we respond and do so, we have to remember that we are all human, imperfect, and trying to get through each day living not only in our SM's but also maneuvering through whatever else life deals us. Wishing you all the best day possible! xo  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 12:20:23 GMT -5
Always thoughtful words from ggold.... and this is a great thought...
When we say "Don't judge a man (woman) until you have walked a mile in their shoes." I believe that knowing where someone is coming from can make a huge difference...
Lets always support each other but keep that grain of wisdom in the back of the mind.....
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Post by baza on Jul 21, 2016 22:08:05 GMT -5
I think that this "walk a mile in their shoes" is a very apt observation.
And one of the great things about a support group like this is that is filled with people who have walked that mile, or have walked 3/4 of it, or a half, or a quarter, or have just got one toe on the start line.
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I know that personally, when I joined the EP ILIASM group in Feb 2009, I had probably taken about 4 steps along *my* mile, and still had about 1,756 yards to go.
I reckon a couple of members at that time (KungFuChic and PrincessMore) who had already walked the mile helped me advance in a big way to avoid going down dead ends, so I flew over the next 1,000 yards and had about 756 to go, where I promptly stalled.
Then, there'd be something someone else wrote / commented etc (sometimes in what complete newbies had to say) that would help me on another 10 yards, or maybe a couple of inches, and incrementally the finish line came in to view. That last 100 yards was real hard work. And without the blunt straightforward inputs of people like Vegas, LaoTzu, enna30, and assorted others, I have grave doubts that I could have completed *my* mile.
But I was lucky. I would unmercifully pick the brains of those persons further down *their* mile than I was down *my* mile and I can not remember even one instance where I pm'd somebody further along than I and got rebuffed. Unfailingly, they'd respond with their observations. Often harsh, sometimes "judgey", usually brutally honest.
They were a fucking Godsend.
To me, anyway.
Your mileage may vary.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 21, 2016 23:41:00 GMT -5
I have been humbled many times in life after judging someone and self-righteously declaring that "I would never do / have that" - later finding myself in their *exact* scenario, for reasons that suddenly made perfect sense.
I try to do it a lot less now, lest I find myself in their shoes again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 13:44:56 GMT -5
I definitely agree with the premise, and thank you for posting @ggold. I do think this topic of judgment deserves more attention b/c I think there's often a piece missing. You've all agreed that it's unfair to judge others and I wholeheartedly agree, but would add the following...
I often hear people wholesale decrying judgment, and I think this is where qualification is required:
Judgment itself is not inherently wrong. In fact, it's absolutely essential. We ALL need to judge and make judgments in order to make critical choices and decisions for our own lives. Every single day, we are required to make judgments about people, behaviors, situations, morals, values, politics, the list goes on.
Where judgment crosses the line, imho, is when we decide that our judgment should apply to someone else's life. Nope! Not our place at all. That's between that other person and God.
This topic hits me because that damn outsourcing thread keeps popping up. Some of you will recall I've chosen not to outsource. I've been careful on forum to be clear that I won't and don't judge others for it. Having not walked a mile in their shoes and all... To each his or her own. But this is an example of judging a behavior and applying that judgment to yourself/myself and not to others. I'll be doing what's right for ME. And you all do what's right for YOU. And only you know that.
So! No judging, except unless the judgment applies to making the next right decision in your own life.
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Post by baza on Jul 22, 2016 20:05:27 GMT -5
Interesting topic this.
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As you've probably observed, I personally am anti cheating.
My reasoning behind this is that in the context of an ILIASM shithole - which is a complex enough problem as it is - adding a further layer of complexity on top of the situation will make addressing the core problem harder to achieve.
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Personally, I don't see the above example as being judgemental or applying a moral standard.
It is simple fact.
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However, if I said "I am anti cheating because ----
"the bible says its wrong"
"I would never do it"
"it's wrong"
then that would be a moral judgement.
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On the other hand, someone else might argue the case the other way, along the lines - "I think cheating is a great idea because it is likely to result in getting caught and thus end the dysfunctional marriage"
Personally, I don't see that as a moral judgement either.
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However, if they said - "I am pro cheating because -----
"The Kerista religion says it's ok"
"I do it all the time"
"it's right"
then that is applying a moral judgement.
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If *you* are going to cheat, then YOU supply the moral judgement about so doing. Not me, not someone else. YOU.
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One might question the advisability of going down that path, but not the morality of it.
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Post by ggold on Jul 22, 2016 23:03:51 GMT -5
I definitely agree with the premise, and thank you for posting @ggold. I do think this topic of judgment deserves more attention b/c I think there's often a piece missing. You've all agreed that it's unfair to judge others and I wholeheartedly agree, but would add the following... I often hear people wholesale decrying judgment, and I think this is where qualification is required: Judgment itself is not inherently wrong. In fact, it's absolutely essential. We ALL need to judge and make judgments in order to make critical choices and decisions for our own lives. Every single day, we are required to make judgments about people, behaviors, situations, morals, values, politics, the list goes on. Where judgment crosses the line, imho, is when we decide that our judgment should apply to someone else's life. Nope! Not our place at all. That's between that other person and God. This topic hits me because that damn outsourcing thread keeps popping up. Some of you will recall I've chosen not to outsource. I've been careful on forum to be clear that I won't and don't judge others for it. Having not walked a mile in their shoes and all... To each his or her own. But this is an example of judging a behavior and applying that judgment to yourself/myself and not to others. I'll be doing what's right for ME. And you all do what's right for YOU. And only you know that. So! No judging, except unless the judgment applies to making the next right decision in your own life. Excellent perspective! Thank you! |
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Post by baza on Jul 25, 2016 1:49:21 GMT -5
Although I am personally anti cheating (as per prior comment, above) I am not blind to the fact that it can have some definite upsides in an ILIASM shithole context.
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For one thing, it will put to rest any fear you have about being sexually attractive, and that might knock down some of your fear level in that regard.
It may also open your eyes to the possibilities out there as opposed to the ILIASM shithole you have been settling for.
Likely, it will give your ego a much needed boost.
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And these things might challenge your thinking just enough to meaningfully address the core problem - that you are in an ILIASM shithole.
(Of course it may have the exact opposite effect - of providing a distraction from your ILIASM shithole, and actually prolonging it)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 2:50:22 GMT -5
Although I am personally anti cheating (as per prior comment, above) I am not blind to the fact that it can have some definite upsides in an ILIASM shithole context. - For one thing, it will put to rest any fear you have about being sexually attractive, and that might knock down some of your fear level in that regard. It may also open your eyes to the possibilities out there as opposed to the ILIASM shithole you have been settling for. Likely, it will give your ego a much needed boost. - And these things might challenge your thinking just enough to meaningfully address the core problem - that you are in an ILIASM shithole. (Of course it may have the exact opposite effect - of providing a distraction from your ILIASM shithole, and actually prolonging it) Just simply flirting did that for me Baza. No adultery required! Flirting reminded me that A) I've still got it and B) there are other possibilities out there. However, it was also a major wake up call for me with regards to my value system. I am a one-man woman, to a fault. I took my promises to love, serve, honor very seriously. I was all his and I wanted it that way. I didn't flirt, I didn't think about sex with motor cycle cops, and I certainly never tempted fate with other men. (Too bad he never appreciated that.) So to watch myself flirting with, looking at, talking to other men and, um, yeah, thinking about having sex with a man other than my husband? That showed me something was broken in my marriage, irreparably so. And served as a huge wake up call that if I want out with my values intact, I'd better do it now. Because I was on a slippery slope with other men. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 25, 2016 14:48:48 GMT -5
This is a a "Choose Your Own Reply" reply:
Pick one:
a) Practical Dan points out: IMO, the most common way that someone "crosses that line" on a forum like this (including EP ILIASM) is they would read one story, and feel they have a complete diagnosis. I think the first few times you interact with someone, you should be asking many more QUESTIONS than giving them "the solution"... and certainly not passing any judgement! Related: beware of the baggage YOU bring when reading someone else's story; it colors your perception.
b) Philosophical Dan comments: "If we all spent more time trying to perceive the condition of others rather than judging them, there would be much more understanding and loving cooperation in the world."
c) Smart Ass Dan asks: "Yes... but I can still judge someone who judges me unfairly, right???"
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Post by ggold on Jul 25, 2016 16:04:29 GMT -5
This is a a "Choose Your Own Reply" reply: Pick one: a) Practical Dan points out: IMO, the most common way that someone "crosses that line" on a forum like this (including EP ILIASM) is they would read one story, and feel they have a complete diagnosis. I think the first few times you interact with someone, you should be asking many more QUESTIONS than giving them "the solution"... and certainly not passing any judgement! Related: beware of the baggage YOU bring when reading someone else's story; it colors your perception. b) Philosophical Dan comments: "If we all spent more time trying to perceive the condition of others rather than judging them, there would be much more understanding and loving cooperation in the world." c) Smart Ass Dan asks: "Yes... but I can still judge someone who criticizes me unfairly, right???" I pick A, B and C Dan! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 0:17:10 GMT -5
many, if not most, times I read about someone's story here, and I think "what the hell, why did you ever get married".
We definitely cant understand others situation, no matter how much empathy we can muster. This is why I am very frustrated with this site.
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Post by Dan on Jul 26, 2016 9:56:19 GMT -5
many, if not most, times I read about someone's story here, and I think "what the hell, why did you ever get married". @lostsoul : The entire rest of us are here solely for your benefit....   |
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Post by ggold on Jul 26, 2016 10:12:19 GMT -5
@dan I so believe this. How about these...    |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 26, 2016 16:13:02 GMT -5
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." – Winston Churchill
Boy, am I a poster child for this! "Fall forward" is my motto.
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