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Post by litnerd on Jun 28, 2016 13:05:39 GMT -5
I'm not even sure I'm in the right place, but I've been lurking for a few days, and so many of the stories and sentiments here could have been written by me. And I have nowhere else to go, really. I have great "mom friends" who are really supportive when I'm having parenting issues, but the only friend whom I can tell "we don't have sex anymore and I'm pretty sure he doesn't love me" is my best friend who lives 2k miles away.
It feels somewhat wrong to say I'm living in a SM because I'm currently pregnant, but the fact that I've gotten pregnant at all, let alone 4 times, is a testament to our combined fertility, I guess. Because sex is anything but frequent. I know the dates that we had sex that resulted in the conception of all of our children, because our having sex is so rare.
We've been married 5.5 years, together 6.5. I'm 30, he's almost 39. When we first started dating, we were all over one another. We only got a couple days/nights a week because of our conflicting work schedules, but we more than made them count. I was constantly hiding bruises and hickies from rough foreplay. I was a late bloomer, so my sexual experience was limited when we got together, but I was eager to try new things. To be honest, I still am. A few months in, sex dropped to almost nothing. We went from 7+ times a week to a stretch of months. When we did attempt sex, at my insistence, he couldn't keep an erection. When I tried to talk to him about it, he told me it wasn't me, that he just didn't care about sex that much, he had a low drive, etc. I tried to believe it, and he actually asked his doctor for ED pills. The pills gave him severe headaches, so he rarely used them. We still didn't have sex for several week stretches.
I've had a really hard time with my own self esteem (a recurring theme for my whole life), especially after my first male sexual partner broke up with me because he "wasn't attracted to me anymore" after I tried to discuss his sexual dysfunction (which was almost certainly related to his untreated mental health issues, but it's still hard to rid my brain of that correlation). My H is also not an affectionate person. He almost only shows me affection when he's drunk (which happens every few years lately), and he has never said "I love you" while sober. If I try to initiate affection/flirting, he withdraws. I have a really hard time not making it about me, thanks to lingering issues from childhood that make me believe everything is somehow my fault. I'm working (slowly) through those issues, and all of the others that decades of emotional and verbal abuse caused, in therapy. The only affection he's shown me in a long time was holding me stiffly a couple weeks ago while I cried when I found out my youngest sister has cancer.
Three years ago, I decided that I had to stop trying to initiate sex with my H, because I could never be sure of his reaction, and the rejection was destroying my self confidence. We would go months between him initiating, and it's always the same 2 positions or me giving him oral. I was still unfulfilled sexually, but I was a happier person. I spent a lot of time focused on loving myself. I'm not sure when I started initiating again, but it's been a while. He rarely turns me down (I try to make sure I'm not asking more than once a month), but lately he doesn't orgasm. I also found out recently that he is watching porn and masturbating several times a week.
The discovery rocked me. I guess I'm maybe naive, but I just accepted his word that he had an extremely low drive. Here I've been trying *not* to masturbate because the more stimulation I get, the more I want, and it's not that he doesn't want sexual interaction...he just doesn't want it with me.
It's triggered a lot of anxiety and depression that I thought I'd mostly worked through. I've stopped sleeping through the night, and spend most nights crying and feeling utterly alone...something I thought I left in my teen years.
I've felt for a while that he doesn't really care about me like a wife. He typically seems put out when I try to talk to him about things, and our main interaction is arguing over differences in parenting philosophy. We still occasionally have a good time together, but it's not much different than the dynamic I had with my large group of guy friends in high school and college (which is another blow, because I was always the girl that guys wanted to be friends with and were never attracted to).
I've come close to leaving a few times over the past couple of years. If I had a better support system and a job, I probably would have. I've been trying to own my decision to stay, but the thought of how my unhappiness is affecting my kids and how I'm not modeling a healthy relationship to them literally keeps me up at night.
There's also the small issue of my feelings for him. I'm still desperately in love with him. Despite all my best efforts, I'm not sexually attracted to anyone else. I can't fantasize about anyone else, and I have no desire to be with anyone else.
So I'm staying for now. I'm sure at some point, our sex life will dry up completely or he'll find someone else (or both) and I'll be faced with actually pulling the trigger. Procrastination and indecision have always been my strong suites.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 28, 2016 13:47:54 GMT -5
Everything you wrote, I mean everything, would have been my words in my thirties. From the excuses to the porn to the I'm still in love with him. So yes you are in the right place unfortunately.
The difference for you and I is I didn't find this place until my forties so I was in a sexless marriage for 2 decades which took a toll on my self esteem.
The good news is you still love your husband and you found this place early in your marriage and all marriages hit a rough spot. I recommend that you lay your cards on the table with him as far as your expectations and needs as his wife. The porn thing needs to stop because it's probably preventing him from being with you. There is a lot of hard work that needs to be done to repair this. I do wonder if I would have confronted my husband in a more demanding no nonsense way if things would have turned out differently. The thing is if he doesn't make a change and figure out a way to reconnect with you then mostly likely you will eventually fall out of love with him to the point that the anger and resentment will just eat at your soul. Let him know this.
Tell him it's unacceptable, you are his wife, you are a human being with biological needs, you want to be made to feel wanted and desired as a woman by the man you love. He better figure it out how to do that because if he doesn't eventually you will love another man and he better take this as a wake up call to prevent divorce.
Here's an analogy:
A lack of sex and intimacy is like a cancer in the marriage, I'm talking about a shithole marriage here. For years they reset us with reset sex and it puts it in remission but when it comes back it's worse until it gets so bad that nothing helps and we need to call hospice aka divorce attorney.
My advice to YOU is focus on yourself and of course the kids but think about going to school or getting back into the workforce ASAP so that if the marriage goes south you will be independent and not trapped. I have always worked, I'm a teacher. After the kids came sex dropped off the cliff and I was celibate for 13 years. Had young children a low paying profession with no raise for 7 years. Two years ago I got a raise and with child support in comfortable on my own with the kids. So work on yourself and towards your independence. I'm of the camp and mindset that these marriages are not repairable so prepare yourself for the worst. You have health insurance, car insurance, life insurance- start preparing yourself just in case with some divorce insurance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 14:53:04 GMT -5
Ouch! I am very sorry to hear this. I know it's because of my situation, but a refused wife seems like such a tragedy to me.
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Post by JMX on Jun 28, 2016 15:00:59 GMT -5
Agree with everything bballgirl said. Nothing to add, really except, when you lay your cards on the table, you may decide to push for counseling - it's at least worth a shot while you get your ducks in a row, although don't expect it to work. |
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Post by angryspartan on Jun 28, 2016 15:19:23 GMT -5
If he's wacking it to porn, he still has a sex drive. He's lying to you about not having a libido.
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Post by adventura on Jun 28, 2016 15:35:39 GMT -5
There's a whole body of research out there on guys who get so addicted to porn that they lose interest in sex with a real woman. And I'm not anti-porn (hell, for a few years I made money writing the stuff), but there's something about the internet that provides so much immediate gratification with zero risk of rejection or failure that those with an addictive personality can get caught up in the stuff. Internet porn is also pretty intense compared to the girlie magazines of olden days - it seems like the industry has to outdo itself every month or dudes reach saturation point and stop getting turned on by it.
Short version: laying it on the line with hubby and telling him you think he has an addiction problem with porn doesn't make you a prude. We're talking about a whole different set of brain cells here, the same ones that light up in alcoholics when they belly up to the bar, or in gamblers when they hit the slots. I can order a drink and don't need a second one; an alcoholic is already planning his ninth and eight would be a disappointment.
If he responds with "I don't think I have a problem," that's information you can use, although I know it's not welcome. I hate these situations; they're so difficult and there seems to be an endless number of them.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 28, 2016 15:54:27 GMT -5
If he's wacking it to porn, he still has a sex drive. He's lying to you about not having a libido. Exactly so he needs to own up to that lie that he does not care about sex. In the one session of marriage counseling we went to my husband said he doesn't care about sex. Translation: I don't care about you, he still found ways to make his dick happy, my happiness didn't matter to him. Now he's the ex and I'm so happy! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 16:18:12 GMT -5
He bait and switched you, he lies to you, you don't get affection unless it comes with the smell of alcohol, and he has rejected you for a pornographic fantasy world, his behavior is affecting your children, and you stay up all night crying...and you're still desperately in love with him? Are you sure about that?
That word "desperately" says a lot. It says he has mindfucked you into believing you are not complete without him.
Do you love him, or are you hosting a parasite?
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Post by lwoetin on Jun 28, 2016 16:32:59 GMT -5
...We went from 7+ times a week to a stretch of months. When we did attempt sex, at my insistence, he couldn't keep an erection. When I tried to talk to him about it, he told me it wasn't me, that he just didn't care about sex that much, he had a low drive, etc. ...We would go months between him initiating, and it's always the same 2 positions or me giving him oral. I was still unfulfilled sexually, but I was a happier person. I spent a lot of time focused on loving myself. I'm not sure when I started initiating again, but it's been a while. He rarely turns me down (I try to make sure I'm not asking more than once a month), but lately he doesn't orgasm. I also found out recently that he is watching porn and masturbating several times a week. ...There's also the small issue of my feelings for him. I'm still desperately in love with him. Despite all my best efforts, I'm not sexually attracted to anyone else. I can't fantasize about anyone else, and I have no desire to be with anyone else. litnerd, that is the same nickname I give to my son. He watches and plays video games all day! I don't think you can fake 7+ times per week so something broke in him after you got married...maybe the ED got him? I've also been brainwashed to knowing only two positions. I can't recall the others although I am sure they were fun. Why don't you ask if you can join his porn sessions. You can discuss the different techniques and positions. Since you are still desperately in love with him then he can't be all bad and there is still hope for your marriage. You have to feel indifference to get to the leaving stage. Is he a good father? |
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Post by litnerd on Jun 28, 2016 17:08:48 GMT -5
...We went from 7+ times a week to a stretch of months. When we did attempt sex, at my insistence, he couldn't keep an erection. When I tried to talk to him about it, he told me it wasn't me, that he just didn't care about sex that much, he had a low drive, etc. ...We would go months between him initiating, and it's always the same 2 positions or me giving him oral. I was still unfulfilled sexually, but I was a happier person. I spent a lot of time focused on loving myself. I'm not sure when I started initiating again, but it's been a while. He rarely turns me down (I try to make sure I'm not asking more than once a month), but lately he doesn't orgasm. I also found out recently that he is watching porn and masturbating several times a week. ...There's also the small issue of my feelings for him. I'm still desperately in love with him. Despite all my best efforts, I'm not sexually attracted to anyone else. I can't fantasize about anyone else, and I have no desire to be with anyone else. litnerd, that is the same nickname I give to my son. He watches and plays video games all day! I don't think you can fake 7+ times per week so something broke in him after you got married...maybe the ED got him? I've also been brainwashed to knowing only two positions. I can't recall the others although I am sure they were fun. Why don't you ask if you can join his porn sessions. You can discuss the different techniques and positions. Since you are still desperately in love with him then he can't be all bad and there is still hope for your marriage. You have to feel indifference to get to the leaving stage. Is he a good father? I was an English major, and am a huge literary nerd. Hence the name. He is a good father. We argue a lot because our approaches are different, and I'm much more sensitive to his traditionalist approach because of the abuse in my childhood. My current plan is to push for him to see a doctor. He hasn't seen one since that one visit when we were dating, and I've wondered for a while if there are physiological issues going on. It doesn't explain everything, though, so I've never really pushed the issue. |
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Post by litnerd on Jun 28, 2016 17:18:09 GMT -5
He bait and switched you, he lies to you, you don't get affection unless it comes with the smell of alcohol, and he has rejected you for a pornographic fantasy world, his behavior is affecting your children, and you stay up all night crying...and you're still desperately in love with him? Are you sure about that? That word "desperately" says a lot. It says he has mindfucked you into believing you are not complete without him. Do you love him, or are you hosting a parasite? I've thought a lot about this over the past few years. And I do love him. I was brainwashed as a child/teen to believe that I would never be able to love someone enough to maintain a relationship (because I was too selfish), and also to believe that there were so many things wrong with me that I'd never find someone who'd "put up with me." It took me a long time to begin to find my reality. And my default mode is still to blame myself when things go wrong. So I've spent countless hours agonizing over whether it's really love or just some weird lingering attachment because I'm afraid that what my father told me was true. And I've always decided that I love him. I just hope that the man I married (because I married him knowing sex would be infrequent...it was just still really good at that point) is still there somewhere. I made a conscious decision to stay with him, even though our sex life wasn't living up to my fantasies, because I loved him for other reasons. He made me laugh, he showed affection, and he was an awesome dad. |
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 28, 2016 17:21:28 GMT -5
As someone who also grew up with a crazy family (borderline mom), I understand very well how it can set you up to accept really insane behavior because you have no framework for what is "normal." As I read recently, people who wind up with passive aggressive spouses (and I think this is probably true for any kind of abusive spouse) usually grow up in families where they had to put up with a very high degree of frustration to get any love.
Have you read up on codependency? It's hard to see why you would be in love with this guy and want more kids with him at this late date, he doesn't exactly sound like a catch. It sounds less like love to me than an infatuation with someone who is hard or impossible to get. The more he pulls away the more you want him. Does this resemble any relationships from your childhood?
You are really young to be so weighed down in a dysfunctional relationship of this length. The good news is that you have plenty of time to see if it's salvageable and if not to get out and have decades to start a new life.
It's great that you are here and questioning this! What you describe is NOT GOOD. If you feel like you're going crazy and terrible inside its because his behavior is crazy making and if you didn't feel terrible you would be insane. Plus being pregnant screws with everyone's head---I'm pregnant right now myself (with my second husband after leaving my SM).
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 28, 2016 17:23:46 GMT -5
Just saw your post about your Dad. Yes, that'll do it! Bingo.
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Post by 3000more on Jun 28, 2016 17:36:49 GMT -5
...We went from 7+ times a week to a stretch of months. When we did attempt sex, at my insistence, he couldn't keep an erection. When I tried to talk to him about it, he told me it wasn't me, that he just didn't care about sex that much, he had a low drive, etc. ...We would go months between him initiating, and it's always the same 2 positions or me giving him oral. I was still unfulfilled sexually, but I was a happier person. I spent a lot of time focused on loving myself. I'm not sure when I started initiating again, but it's been a while. He rarely turns me down (I try to make sure I'm not asking more than once a month), but lately he doesn't orgasm. I also found out recently that he is watching porn and masturbating several times a week. ...There's also the small issue of my feelings for him. I'm still desperately in love with him. Despite all my best efforts, I'm not sexually attracted to anyone else. I can't fantasize about anyone else, and I have no desire to be with anyone else. litnerd, that is the same nickname I give to my son. He watches and plays video games all day! I don't think you can fake 7+ times per week so something broke in him after you got married...maybe the ED got him? I've also been brainwashed to knowing only two positions. I can't recall the others although I am sure they were fun. Why don't you ask if you can join his porn sessions. You can discuss the different techniques and positions. Since you are still desperately in love with him then he can't be all bad and there is still hope for your marriage. You have to feel indifference to get to the leaving stage. Is he a good father? This is a really good quote: "You have to feel indifference to get to the leaving stage." |
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Post by litnerd on Jun 28, 2016 17:39:23 GMT -5
As someone who also grew up with a crazy family (borderline mom), I understand very well how it can set you up to accept really insane behavior because you have no framework for what is "normal." As I read recently, people who wind up with passive aggressive spouses (and I think this is probably true for any kind of abusive spouse) usually grow up in families where they had to put up with a very high degree of frustration to get any love. Have you read up on codependency? It's hard to see why you would be in love with this guy and want more kids with him at this late date, he doesn't exactly sound like a catch. It sounds less like love to me than an infatuation with someone who is hard or impossible to get. The more he pulls away the more you want him. Does this resemble any relationships from your childhood? You are really young to be so weighed down in a dysfunctional relationship of this length. The good news is that you have plenty of time to see if it's salvageable and if not to get out and have decades to start a new life. It's great that you are here and questioning this! What you describe is NOT GOOD. If you feel like you're going crazy and terrible inside its because his behavior is crazy making and if you didn't feel terrible you would be insane. Plus being pregnant screws with everyone's head---I'm pregnant right now myself (with my second husband after leaving my SM). That's another major issue. I already have depression and anxiety issues that are separate from any issues I have with him, but pregnancy makes everything so much worse. Even during my first pregnancy, when things were still good, I spent sleepless nights wondering if it was somehow all a big joke and he was going to leave me. I know my crazy hormone roller coaster of being pregnant and/or breastfeeding for the past 5 years has taken a toll on both of us. That's a big part of the reason I decided that I didn't want to leave while I'm stuck in this cycle of constantly meeting the needs of small children. The fact that we have small children is what necessitated me staying home (my income would barely cover daycare for one). I actually enjoy staying home most of the time, but the financial pressure he's been under has clearly affected him. That said, I am not willing to stay like this forever. I don't think it's fair to either of us. I really don't want to leave, but I won't stay if he's not willing to change things. |
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