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Post by adventura on Jun 28, 2016 10:39:12 GMT -5
I outsourced at the end of my first live-in partnership. I think it's a good option for people of either gender who can separate their emotions from sex.
Me, I was a lousy outsourcer. I was 30 at the time and had a raging Jane Eyre/Jane Austen complex. Still do, although I'm working on moderating it as it's probably part of my current predicament with my long term boyfriend - if only I overcome the barriers between us we'll have TROOOOO LUUUHHHVE!
Sex without romance isn't for everyone, but sex with romance is, well, seductive. It's easy to get addicted to trying to win someone who can't be won. In a way it's a repeat of the sexless marriage, only with sex.
When I outsourced I was advised not to put all my eggs in one basket. I ignored that advice, of course, but later I wished I hadn't.
I wish you every bit of happiness - you sound like a lovely person.
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Post by emmablueeyes on Jun 28, 2016 11:08:01 GMT -5
- The anecdotal evidence in this group (and the old EP group) is that there is a huge gender imbalance when it comes to leaving an unhappy marriage. Out of every 6 people who DO leave, 5 of them are women. Blokes are 5 times less likely to leave. - That's a pretty intense statistic! Are males more comfortable with physical rejection? Stereotypes aren't suppose to still exist but I know as a woman it seems less acceptable to have the male spouse be non sexual. So, I am asking my SP if there are other women he is involved with. Funny how I have no problem confronting him with the tough questions but still cannot seem to broach the subject of the lack of sex with spouse and subsequent personal feeling of wanting to crawl up a wall backwards while spinning my head around in circles. My concern with the conversation now is I am afraid if confronted I will confess to outsourcing (great term btw). In fact I might loudly yell it like "of course I cheated!!!" "WTF did you think would happen?" |
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Post by emmablueeyes on Jun 28, 2016 11:11:01 GMT -5
"I can't be happy unless I live in Montana" is an excuse. Your sexless husband just can't be happy and you can't make him so (and neither can a perfect job or a geographic cure or a sprinkle of unicorn poop, for that matter - - only HE can, and only if he chooses to - and he has chosen to "coast" instead of engage - - and if you're coasting, then you're only pointed one direction: downhill.) "Sprinkle of unicorn poop!!!!" Love it! Great wisdom in these comments. Everyone's comments have been spot on. |
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Post by obobfla on Jun 28, 2016 12:04:37 GMT -5
- The anecdotal evidence in this group (and the old EP group) is that there is a huge gender imbalance when it comes to leaving an unhappy marriage. Out of every 6 people who DO leave, 5 of them are women. Blokes are 5 times less likely to leave. - That's a pretty intense statistic! Are males more comfortable with physical rejection? Stereotypes aren't suppose to still exist but I know as a woman it seems less acceptable to have the male spouse be non sexual. So, I am asking my SP if there are other women he is involved with. Funny how I have no problem confronting him with the tough questions but still cannot seem to broach the subject of the lack of sex with spouse and subsequent personal feeling of wanting to crawl up a wall backwards while spinning my head around in circles. My concern with the conversation now is I am afraid if confronted I will confess to outsourcing (great term btw). In fact I might loudly yell it like "of course I cheated!!!" "WTF did you think would happen?" Why do more males stay? I am not sure, but I have dealt with the morality of divorcing versus staying and outsourcing. My wife cannot support herself. She is on disability and cannot hold a job, at least one that would support her without public assistance. Either I pay her alimony at a rate I can't afford, or I leave her in poverty. But if I stay, she has a roof over her head and food on the table. I don't have to pay for two places to live. I don't need to shuttle my son between her place and my place. And I don't have to worry about how she is. We may not be in love, but I do care for her a lot. But that would be great if all I wanted was a sexual relationship with someone else. While I am not totally against a FWB, I would like something more. And I think the women that would be interested in me would prefer that I did not have a wife. That is why I am considering divorce. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 28, 2016 12:33:44 GMT -5
- The anecdotal evidence in this group (and the old EP group) is that there is a huge gender imbalance when it comes to leaving an unhappy marriage. Out of every 6 people who DO leave, 5 of them are women. Blokes are 5 times less likely to leave. - That's a pretty intense statistic! Are males more comfortable with physical rejection? Stereotypes aren't suppose to still exist but I know as a woman it seems less acceptable to have the male spouse be non sexual. So, I am asking my SP if there are other women he is involved with. Funny how I have no problem confronting him with the tough questions but still cannot seem to broach the subject of the lack of sex with spouse and subsequent personal feeling of wanting to crawl up a wall backwards while spinning my head around in circles. My concern with the conversation now is I am afraid if confronted I will confess to outsourcing (great term btw). In fact I might loudly yell it like "of course I cheated!!!" "WTF did you think would happen?" While I understand exactly how you feel about wanting to confess to outsourcing, I do not recommend it. A good rule to live by - anytime you do anything wrong, do not tell anyone. I think the fact that most men do not not associate sex with love if they outsource, that helps to keep them in their marriages especially if they still love their wives. |
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Post by baza on Jun 29, 2016 4:12:42 GMT -5
" Are males more comfortable with physical rejection?" you ask.
I have no effing idea. Possibly. Maybe. Perhaps.
The point I was trying to make is that there are all sorts of reasons that blokes are reticent to end a marriage - no matter how big a shithole it might be.
It doesn't matter "why".
Even if you knew "why" it is not a matter under your control, and as such, a dead end enquiry. Nothing you can do about it.
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Post by emmablueeyes on Jun 30, 2016 9:51:30 GMT -5
I had the talk last night with spouse and it was surprisingly honest and sad. We were discussing him moving to Montana for the interim time before I can move and I asked if he wanted to stay married? He said he thought that was the plan and I mentioned I had one big concern. He knew without me saying it that I was talking about the lack of sex. He even owned up to knowing he hadn't done a good job in that department. He says he's a bit depressed. I told him I'd found a support group and mentioned the only real possibility of fixing this is if he is also truly unhappy with the lack of sex. If he isn't then I don't see much hope for change. He seems to get he should want sex more frequently and is still under the illusion he could become a sexual person if he lived in Montana and was happier. He did not ask if I have gone outside the marriage to meet my needs. I think he might be afraid to know the answer.
Speaking of "outsourcing" since I still haven't seen my AP I sent him a long email 3 days ago talking about where I am coming from and feeling like we are in different places and I asked if he was seeing other women too and maybe best to take space etc... He responded with a thank you and how my heartfelt email deserved at least the same and more from me but he needed a day to breath (huge fight with wife) and then nothing and that was 2 days ago. I hope he figures out his mess and wish him the best but I don't need more uncertainty!
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Post by iceman on Jun 30, 2016 13:44:15 GMT -5
I had the talk last night with spouse and it was surprisingly honest and sad. We were discussing him moving to Montana for the interim time before I can move and I asked if he wanted to stay married? He said he thought that was the plan and I mentioned I had one big concern. He knew without me saying it that I was talking about the lack of sex. He even owned up to knowing he hadn't done a good job in that department. He says he's a bit depressed. I told him I'd found a support group and mentioned the only real possibility of fixing this is if he is also truly unhappy with the lack of sex. If he isn't then I don't see much hope for change. He seems to get he should want sex more frequently and is still under the illusion he could become a sexual person if he lived in Montana and was happier. Absolutely, if he doesn't want to have more sex, not that he thinks he should for whatever reason, but really wants it, it's not going to work. I think that's the dilemma most of us here are in. We're trying get our partners to do something that's fundamentally against their nature. That just doesn't work in the long run. Try as they may, they will always revert to form. Same for us. We can try to convince ourselves that we can live without sex and for a while fool ourselves but the need is always there. I made a significant move with my wife a few years ago to an equally pleasant place as Montana. Sex certainly wasn't the only reason but I was convinced that the move would allow my wife's stress level to go down and she be happier and therefore more sexual. It hasn't made any difference. She's happier where we live, much happier, but our sex life has gotten much worse. The trajectory has just continued downward at an ever accelerating rate. Not sure the trajectory can go much lower. We're really close to rock bottom. |
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Post by baza on Jul 1, 2016 1:16:45 GMT -5
Suggestion.
Zipcode therapy.
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Send him off to Montana by himself.
"If" he wants to work hard on acquiring the skills and mindset to be a half decent life partner, his progress will be accelerated by being by himself and devoting himself to that glorious quest without any distraction, without the pressure of trying to maintain a struggling relationship.
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Meantime, you would be on your own too, an excellent opportunity to take a full inventory of yourself, what you want, how you might obtain it.
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After say 6 months, you might want to meet on neutral ground and see if there is any basis to get back together - or to adopt "permanent Zipcode therapy".
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Post by angryspartan on Jul 1, 2016 1:30:40 GMT -5
I had the talk last night with spouse and it was surprisingly honest and sad. We were discussing him moving to Montana for the interim time before I can move and I asked if he wanted to stay married? He said he thought that was the plan and I mentioned I had one big concern. He knew without me saying it that I was talking about the lack of sex. He even owned up to knowing he hadn't done a good job in that department. He says he's a bit depressed. I told him I'd found a support group and mentioned the only real possibility of fixing this is if he is also truly unhappy with the lack of sex. If he isn't then I don't see much hope for change. He seems to get he should want sex more frequently and is still under the illusion he could become a sexual person if he lived in Montana and was happier. He did not ask if I have gone outside the marriage to meet my needs. I think he might be afraid to know the answer. Speaking of "outsourcing" since I still haven't seen my AP I sent him a long email 3 days ago talking about where I am coming from and feeling like we are in different places and I asked if he was seeing other women too and maybe best to take space etc... He responded with a thank you and how my heartfelt email deserved at least the same and more from me but he needed a day to breath (huge fight with wife) and then nothing and that was 2 days ago. I hope he figures out his mess and wish him the best but I don't need more uncertainty! In all honesty, his saying he needs to be in another state in order to be more sexual is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. In fact, that's a new one for me. Ask him if he believes clicking his heels together three times will get him there.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 9:03:29 GMT -5
What baza said. If moving to Montana is really such a big deal for him, he should want to do it with or without you. And I would bet a whole paycheck that it wouldn't make one bit of difference to your sex life. I did zip code therapy myself, but I made sure of two things: 1) I had a decent job to go to in the new place and 2) the new place was somewhere that I honestly liked and thought I would be happy living there - with or without a partner. IMHO, any kind of move is a life-changing event. If it's at all possible, you should not move anywhere without being sure that you will be reasonably happy living there. It matters if you have enough money to afford the kind of lifestyle you want. (YMMV on that, but you want to live in a safe neighborhood at a minimum.) And think about what the people are like in the place you are thinking of. What are some of the major employers in the area? What kind of industries? That will tell you a lot about the people who live in the area. What kind of activities are there for people to do outside of work? Do you like outdoorsy stuff, or are you more into arts, music, culture? Are a lot of people in the area very religious, especially if it's one particular religion? (i.e., Utah being mostly Mormon.) All those considerations tell you what kind of people will be filling your days, if you move to that place. I know that sometimes, you just have to go wherever you can find a decent job. But even in those situations, it's wise to consider aspects of this location, and how they fit with your wants and needs -- JUST you, with your love life not being part of the equation. |
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Post by emmablueeyes on Jul 1, 2016 11:57:10 GMT -5
Déjà-fcuking-vu. I think someone who doesn't want you, does not deserve a heartfelt long email. 3 (three) little words would be enough: suggest him to "go fcuk himself"! Agreed:) I waited long enough and sent a "I would save him the trouble of responding...go fuck himself...I'm done." Also deleted another exes pitiful attempts at reconnecting. Apparently I am currently good and cutting ties with unavailable men. Still not having sex though!!! And if I keep this up I will not be getting any any time soon:) I cannot move to Montana for another 5 years due to co-parent situation so I am working on sending the other one there by himself and using the "zipcode" solution. Almost there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 12:37:27 GMT -5
Perhaps a vacation to Montana is in order ;-)
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 1, 2016 22:15:46 GMT -5
emmablueeyes, what I see from my armchair... You can't move out of state for custody reasons. That's reasonable, and probably not much of a surprise since kids were a "pre-existing condition". Timeline: 5 years. H claims that moving to a new state will cure his low libido - if only you weren't holding him back from moving. That's a steaming pile of poo. Nothing more than a stall tactic that lets him dodge working on it while placing the blame on you. How screwed up is that? Relocating will cut you off from whatever support network you have today. Not to mention uprooting your financial independence. You're going to need both when H doesn't hold up his end of the bargain. Tell H not to put his dreams on hold. And don't put yours on hold.
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