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Post by deborahmanning on Jun 25, 2016 15:04:00 GMT -5
Greatcostal, how did you "find out later" that your counselor was supposed to be as objective as possible? ( I assume 'partial' was a misprint and you mean impartial.)
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Post by deborahmanning on Jun 25, 2016 15:14:23 GMT -5
One of my many issues with the therapeutic model is that counsellors don't seem eager to explain the basic framework they are working within. Couples go in expecting different things, and it takes at least 6 sessions to get everyone's limits on the table. The counselor can literally say anything he/she thinks is helpful, as long as it's not sexual come ons or stock tips. It's billed out as a professional, even semi-medical service, but there's no oversight that I can find. No tracking of outcomes since "every situation is different." Hmmm nice work if you can get it!
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 25, 2016 16:00:56 GMT -5
What is your objective in going to marriage counseling?
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Post by deborahmanning on Jun 25, 2016 17:16:32 GMT -5
Oh jeez, sorry if that came out sounding like an English-teacher correction to YOU, I meant to criticize the therapist. Why did she not make it clear from the get-go that she was supposed to be impartial, was my question. I added another note below to try and make it clear but guess I failed. It's not YOUR vocabulary that;s the problem, believe me.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 25, 2016 18:52:25 GMT -5
Oh jeez, sorry if that came out sounding like an English-teacher correction to YOU, I meant to criticize the therapist. Why did she not make it clear from the get-go that she was supposed to be impartial, was my question. I added another note below to try and make it clear but guess I failed. It's not YOUR vocabulary that;s the problem, believe me. No love lost dear!! I came home, read it again and deleted it! Guess I've seen people get corrected too many times, and felt like speaking up. my therapist told me the other day, " I am not supposed to take sides, but I have to say, "your wife gave zero effort in trying to save your marriage! " part of me asks," why can't therapy be like that in the first place?" |
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Post by deborahmanning on Jun 25, 2016 19:14:06 GMT -5
Oh and I also got the gender wrong, of your counselor, when you clearly said it was a "he."
I am so done with this current trend, of every magazine and TV show recommending therapy like it was a magic silver bullet of clarity. I am on a lot of support boards and it sounds like about half the "professionals" are just making shit up! There are no standards at all! Even if you get lucky and land with a good one, there is all this cute drama about being impartial. OK fine, I would be glad for someone who's not personally involved with my life, and able to give opinions from an objective stranger;s point of view. But they dance around doing even this. You have to GUESS their opinion from what they're carefully not saying. Like we're too easily led and would blame them for the rest of our lives, if their advice was wrong.
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Post by cc on Jun 25, 2016 19:14:29 GMT -5
I have always smirked at the idea of marriage counselors obobfla. But you know what? I think they are extremely helpful! You see, you go there, prepared to open up and talk about your marriage issues, next to a bored, indifferent, annoyed spouse who feels dragged there and who can't wait the session to end, and in front of a dumbfounded, perhaps incapable, ignorant and charlatan counselor. Conversely, with some luck you could have bumped into a really good one! It doesn't matter much whether the counselor is good our bad. What matters is that your problems and issues are voiced and that you have now an audience, a witness, an outside observer whose value is simply that s/he listens and/or takes notes, or nods. Of course they can do nothing. But you, you can grasp the reality, suddenly your issues are tangible, not just irrational thinking in your head when you're frustrated. As your story unfolds, quickly you realise that there's no place to hide. For this reason alone, counsellors are useful. Actually, from a purely marketing perspective, I would strongly recommend all marriage counselors to set office at the antechamber of an attorney. I can visualise the sign pointing to the next door. My family law attorney told me he gets a lot of referrals from marriage counselors. Marriage counseling really is the antechamber to divorce. It's only any good for couples who are catching problems and nipping them in the bud. By the time a person in a SM drags their spouse to counseling it's usually way too late. The problems have been ingrained for years or decades, and are way deeper than date nights and communication exercises are going to reach. bbalgirl had it right. Use a marriage counselor to help you end the marriage with the least amount of damage, rather than trying to fix it. Because STBX and ex are also relationships, and they're just like any other relationship, they can be good or bad. Man....this really hurt my heart. I believe it, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 19:44:22 GMT -5
My family law attorney told me he gets a lot of referrals from marriage counselors. Marriage counseling really is the antechamber to divorce. It's only any good for couples who are catching problems and nipping them in the bud. By the time a person in a SM drags their spouse to counseling it's usually way too late. The problems have been ingrained for years or decades, and are way deeper than date nights and communication exercises are going to reach. bbalgirl had it right. Use a marriage counselor to help you end the marriage with the least amount of damage, rather than trying to fix it. Because STBX and ex are also relationships, and they're just like any other relationship, they can be good or bad. Man....this really hurt my heart. I believe it, though. Sorry. Maybe a little blunt but I do think it's true. You will be hard pressed to find many people who were in a dysfunctional marriage for 15 years, who went to marital counseling and permanently changed their marriage into a physically and emotionally intimate and satisfying relationship. Lots of "meaningful discussions" and cuddling, sometimes with a little less-than-satisfying sex thrown in because it's part of the homework. |
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Post by baza on Jun 26, 2016 6:35:30 GMT -5
Personally, I'm with Sister Fiery.
There is much to be learned out of counselling (even if the counsellor proves to be ratshit).
Indeed it seems to me that this first session was most illuminating.
Apart from challenging *your* thinking (which is a good thing for a counsellor to do) your account of the meeting reads like your missus contributed very little into the mix at all.
That's very significant.
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Personally, I can't see any harm at all in backing up for another session.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 7:52:58 GMT -5
deborahmanning, great posts!!! Psychology departments and others have surveyed the effectiveness of lots of varieties of Psychological Therapy and Counselling. The results are dismal. If engineering had such a record, none of us would walk across a bridge. AND, Why is impartiality a "Good" thing? If I'm not thinking well or doing wrong things, I have NO hope of stopping that until I recognize it. Paying someone $200/he to tell me I'm ok is. .... great!!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 26, 2016 13:41:48 GMT -5
First of all your 16 yrs of background and history mean nothing to the councilor. Where's the reality in that? Aren't we supposed to be well aware of our past so we learn from our mistakes? Second, anger does no good? Where do you think rules, regulations, borders, guidelines, and discipline come from? Third, ( and this hits so close to home) you spent days of showing intimacy by setting up the whole thing, and leading up to the moment. Fourth, romance? WTF.? After dinner, after for play , in a jacuzzi ,and she wants to go to sleep, and your supposed to be romantic? Ask that therapist what you are supposed to do? You have just been denied, humiliated, rejected, heartbroken, refused, belittled, controlled ,manipulated and your supposed to be romantic? What does she want you to do? Sit for hours and watch her snore with a romantic look on your face? Tell your wife in the morning when she wakes up, that falling asleep was so romantic,that ,that was the most romantic thing anyone could ever do for you?
A box of donughts says she ( the therapist) won't be asking your wife what she does to get you in the mood for romance!!
This is your wife, your anniversary! You can go hold hands with the garbage man if you want! Heck bring him a glass of water on a hot day, he'll pat you on the back. This is the only person on the planet you are allowed to have intimate sexual intercourse with! When did you publicly agree to that? On the date of your...ANNIVERSARY!! Duhh!!,
So why can't a therapist tell you to go home .and then have a few months with your wife and tell her you are going to loose your man!! And ask her "do you care? " Then dig into her past, and tell you the Good ,or most likely bad news.
Side note: I am to the point where I go to my therapist for a lot more legal advice. He's been through two divorces himself, and testifies in court often!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 15:39:00 GMT -5
What bballgirl said. Ditto. obobfla did you interview the marriage therapist before starting therapy? You know that there is no "one size fits all" approach. But, as bballgirl said, at the next session, provide your non-negotiables. What are your "must-have" from therapy? Don't assume that your w is going to "know" anything, if you don't clearly articulate it. And, what is your timeline for therapy? Six months, another year, five years, etc. |
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Post by obobfla on Jun 26, 2016 16:03:44 GMT -5
What bballgirl said. Ditto. obobfla did you interview the marriage therapist before starting therapy? You know that there is no "one size fits all" approach. But, as bballgirl said, at the next session, provide your non-negotiables. What are your "must-have" from therapy? Don't assume that your w is going to "know" anything, if you don't clearly articulate it. And, what is your timeline for therapy? Six months, another year, five years, etc. I will provide my non-negotiables next session. Here is what I want. I would like my wife to communicate with me better, but I doubt that will happen. So the next best thing is to smooth out a path to eventual separation. If there is not any meaningful progress after three or four sessions, I will see an attorney. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 16:45:42 GMT -5
What bballgirl said. Ditto. obobfla did you interview the marriage therapist before starting therapy? You know that there is no "one size fits all" approach. But, as bballgirl said, at the next session, provide your non-negotiables. What are your "must-have" from therapy? Don't assume that your w is going to "know" anything, if you don't clearly articulate it. And, what is your timeline for therapy? Six months, another year, five years, etc. I will provide my non-negotiables next session. Here is what I want. I would like my wife to communicate with me better, but I doubt that will happen. So the next best thing is to smooth out a path to eventual separation. If there is not any meaningful progress after three or four sessions, I will see an attorney. "Better?" what does that look like EXACTLY? And, why if you're already predicting "I doubt that will happen. So the next best thing is to smooth out a path to eventual separation," don't you just say "If there is not any meaningful progress after three or four sessions, I will see an attorney?" Although, the way you've phrased it, it sounds like a threat, because you need to clearly define "meaningful progress." Considering where you've been, getting w to actually GO to therapy IS "meaningful progress." Just playing devil's advocate, hon. You know I fully support you, and wish I could Baker Act her, myself. I strongly believe she should be in an ALF, given her history of noncompliance with prescribed medications and mental health therapeutic support. |
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Post by obobfla on Jun 26, 2016 17:07:39 GMT -5
She takes her meds religiously. She is better than taking meds than I am. I did try to Baker Act her once years ago, but they said that she did not need hospitalization. She does fight her illness, although I wish she fought harder at times.
What is "better?" I am still defining it. Since the appointment, her head is coming out of the sand a bit. She has paid more attention to my son and me. There is progress for now. But I need to see if the progress holds. She has backslid before.
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