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Post by obobfla on Jun 25, 2016 8:17:04 GMT -5
After much planning, cajoling, and threatening, my wife and I finally saw a marriage counselor. Thought it would help solve our communication problems. Now I am debating whether it was the right move or I just picked the wrong counselor.
In my marriage, I have been feeling angry and hurt not just by the lack of sex but by the poor communication. It is as she is unaware of my needs and feelings. I walked into that counseling session with 16 years of pent up frustration and hurt.
That frustration and hurt did not matter to the counselor. Yes, I had gone without sex for a long time. Yes, my wife should have taken me to the emergency room when I was screaming in pain or having stroke symptoms. But did I have a right to be angry about it? Not according to her. It wouldn't do any good, she said.
I brought up the time I had brought my wife to a B&B for a romantic anniversary weekend. Here's that story: After going out for dinner, we started foreplay. I was playing Simply Red. Back when we were dating, we made out the first time with Simply Red playing. But here, she announced she didn't like Simply Red. Ok. We then decided to try the in-room jacuzzi. Just as we were starting to do the deed, she said that she was too tired and wanted to go to sleep. I exploded. Moved to a couch in the room and thought about calling a divorce lawyer when I got back home. Since then, I have not tried to have sex with my wife again.
So, I tell the counselor this story. She said, "If you couldn't have sex, did you try having some romance?" No, I did not take my wife to a B&B just to hold hands and cuddle. "But you went there for your anniversary, not to have sex!" No, I went there to have sex with my wife. I did not get married to be celibate.
After the session, I dropped my wife back home and went to work. Even though I have been sober for 21 years, I felt like having a drink. Instead, I went to work, had lunch, and just enjoyed the sanctuary of my cubicle. I am still upset about the session, as my digestive system is in knots.
If any good came out of it, it's that my wife is more receptive and realizes how unhappy I am. Her head is coming out of the sand - a little. I did make a second appointment with the counselor, but right now I am thinking of cancelling and trying another one. If I go back, I will let the counselor know my feelings and that what I feel cannot be ignored.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 8:36:04 GMT -5
This particular counselor is clueless about sexless marriages. But marital counseling at this stage is useless. You're wasting your time.
Edit: in fact a counselor who says you shouldn't be angry is clueless about everything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 8:42:21 GMT -5
Anger is like shit. It's going to come out whether you like it or not. It's just a matter of what you do with it.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 25, 2016 8:52:38 GMT -5
obobfla, therapy can be hit-and-miss. There are probably as many techniques as there are therapists, and many won't be a fit for your issues. We tried a "marriage counselor" once whose only technique was to facilitate conversation between me and W. Pissed me off. W and I talk plenty at home; we didn't need Marriage Communications 101 - we needed guidance in solving a complex problem, and this therapist treated us like newlyweds who didn't know how to express their feelings. Perhaps the most important value in a therapist is to find one that has credibility with your wife. Not someone that caters to her, but someone she will seriously listen to. And perhaps a way you can still use this therapist to your benefit... Unload the baggage. Get it all out on the table, with all 3 of you in the room. Be blunt about being so frustrated that you're on the cusp of leaving her. And good luck squeezing it all into 45 minutes. As you're starting to see, perhaps your wife will listen more sincerely to your issues in that forum, where she doesn't give your complaints merit in a private setting. FWIW, DC
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Post by obobfla on Jun 25, 2016 8:56:54 GMT -5
obobfla , therapy can be hit-and-miss. There are probably as many techniques as there are therapists, and many won't be a fit for your issues. We tried a "marriage counselor" once whose only technique was to facilitate conversation between me and W. Pissed me off. W and I talk plenty at home; we didn't need Marriage Communications 101 - we needed guidance in solving a complex problem, and this therapist treated us like newlyweds who didn't know how to express their feelings. Perhaps the most important value in a therapist is to find one that has credibility with your wife. Not someone that caters to her, but someone she will seriously listen to. And perhaps a way you can still use this therapist to your benefit... Unload the baggage. Get it all out on the table, with all 3 of you in the room. Be blunt about being so frustrated that you're on the cusp of leaving her. And good luck squeezing it all into 45 minutes. As you're starting to see, perhaps your wife will listen more sincerely to your issues in that forum, where she doesn't give your complaints merit in a private setting. FWIW, DC That is what I am thinking. My wife has a hard time opening up. It takes awhile for anyone to get her trust, which is what I believe the therapist was doing. But if in doing so, she ignores my years of frustration, then she isn't the right therapist for me. |
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Post by deborahmanning on Jun 25, 2016 9:08:40 GMT -5
Yes, that's ridiculous. What kind of credentials does this counselor have? What treatment approach is she using? I've seen (and heard of) some doozies, but nothing that covered what you heard... basically invalidating every feeling you have!
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 25, 2016 9:13:34 GMT -5
That is what I am thinking. My wife has a hard time opening up. It takes awhile for anyone to get her trust, which is what I believe the therapist was doing. But if in doing so, she ignores my years of frustration, then she isn't the right therapist for me. Given what you say, it's possible that the counselor was minimizing your complaint in an effort to create a setting where your wife would start to open up. He may see your complaints as valid, but recognize that if he takes a side too early that your wife will clam up. It might be worth booking a private session to air your backstory and discuss your concerns about his approach. I've done this, and it helps to set the stage for the joint discussion without bickering in-room over history. (And I've encouraged W to do this too.) And you may realize this, but a half-dozen sessions is just getting rolling - it takes half that just to get the therapist up to speed. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 25, 2016 10:18:38 GMT -5
I guess I try to see the positives in things and yes it maybe that the counselor is clueless or trying to gain trust for your wife to open up but really neither of that matters unless you want to stay in the marriage and for the marriage to improve.
The positives that I see is you have found a counselor, started a process, and have announced that you are unhappy in the marriage.
So session 1 - you stated you are unhappy and even angry
In session 2 - I'd set them both straight including the counselor about what your purpose is for this counseling, what you want out of it, what you need from the counselor in order to help your wife deal and move forward.
By session 3,4,5,6 - whenever you are ready and feel comfortable if a divorce is the route you want them make the announcement.
You are never going to get the type of intimacy you want, with your wife.
She's not capable of it and you deserve it. Bottom line you stay together because of the kids. I did for a long time.
State YOUR purpose for the counseling. Go in with a list of talking points to even address to the counselor and ask her if she can help you to transition both you and your wife into separate lives for the sake of your son. Nobody needs permission to get a divorce but use the counseling as a tool if that's what you want.
I did all of this in a month last year and went to one session of counseling with my husband.
My steps:
August - told husband I was unhappy, I wasn't in love with him and I was going to individual therapy because I cry all the time. He went into blame mode. Selfish prick.
Sept. - told H that I wanted a divorce. I didn't blame him. Just said I don't want to be a wife anymore and we're not compatible. Again blame mode and threatened to quit his job. Selfish prick
October - one session of marriage counseling. I stated my purpose was not to repair the marriage that I didn't want to be his wife but we could be friends and co parents. He stated he wanted to repair the marriage. I made it thoroughly clear and used a few anecdotes why we were not compatible.
I told him he can continue with the counselor on his own so he can get through the grieving process. I also told him to lawyer up. He left angry and sad, oh well, I've been angry and sad for a lot longer.
November - he was served
So it's not a process to prepare them that happens over night give it time but work torwards your goal. It's like the rungs on a ladder, one step at a time!
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Post by cc on Jun 25, 2016 11:36:55 GMT -5
I understand your frustration. We are told so often that our plight doesn't matter. I think you had hoped to get it out and start working on the pain you have and that wasn't the case. You were absolutely desperate going in. That's really hard. How dare she tell you your feelings aren't valued.
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Post by adventura on Jun 25, 2016 12:52:40 GMT -5
Couple of random thoughts on this:
Some counselors operate under the assumption that anger is a "bad" emotion. I was lucky enough to work with someone for five years who told me, "Anger is your friend because it tells you when you think your boundaries are being violated. Then it's up to you to figure out whether they really are, and if they are, what to do about it." Did you see the movie Inside Out? Lewis Black was the voice over for the emotion of Anger. His job was to tell the little girl when there was an injustice. When he got really mad, his hair would catch fire.
If you're doing couples counseling, it makes sense for both of you to do individual counseling as well, preferably NOT with your couples counselor. I know this gets expensive fast, but maybe take advantage of free Employee Assistance counseling at work, or a counseling center at a local university. An individual counselor puts YOUR best interests first (same goes for your wife if she has one). The couples counselor puts the RELATIONSHIP first. Most of them won't recommend splitting until everything has been tried, sometimes ad nauseum. The first thing they try to do is to get the couple to communicate better, but this only works if both partners want it.
Rather a lot of work, but the individual counseling can be very valuable regardless of whether the relationship survives.
I tried this too and quickly learned that my relationship has a sex problem, not a communication problem.
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Post by obobfla on Jun 25, 2016 13:04:08 GMT -5
Thanks, adventuraI went through individual counseling already. Dealing with my wife's mental illness, I alternated between anger and guilt - anger over her behavior and guilt for getting angry over her illness. With the help of the counselor, I was able to get over the guilt and realize I deserved better. |
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Post by deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:21:31 GMT -5
If you are going to vent, make a list. You want to get your money's worth. Put together an agenda, so you can better steer/manage the situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:37:38 GMT -5
I have always smirked at the idea of marriage counselors obobfla. But you know what? I think they are extremely helpful! You see, you go there, prepared to open up and talk about your marriage issues, next to a bored, indifferent, annoyed spouse who feels dragged there and who can't wait the session to end, and in front of a dumbfounded, perhaps incapable, ignorant and charlatan counselor. Conversely, with some luck you could have bumped into a really good one! It doesn't matter much whether the counselor is good our bad. What matters is that your problems and issues are voiced and that you have now an audience, a witness, an outside observer whose value is simply that s/he listens and/or takes notes, or nods. Of course they can do nothing. But you, you can grasp the reality, suddenly your issues are tangible, not just irrational thinking in your head when you're frustrated. As your story unfolds, quickly you realise that there's no place to hide. For this reason alone, counsellors are useful. Actually, from a purely marketing perspective, I would strongly recommend all marriage counselors to set office at the antechamber of an attorney. I can visualise the sign pointing to the next door. My family law attorney told me he gets a lot of referrals from marriage counselors. Marriage counseling really is the antechamber to divorce. It's only any good for couples who are catching problems and nipping them in the bud. By the time a person in a SM drags their spouse to counseling it's usually way too late. The problems have been ingrained for years or decades, and are way deeper than date nights and communication exercises are going to reach. bbalgirl had it right. Use a marriage counselor to help you end the marriage with the least amount of damage, rather than trying to fix it. Because STBX and ex are also relationships, and they're just like any other relationship, they can be good or bad. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 25, 2016 14:09:50 GMT -5
So many times I wanted my therapist to be judge and jury. Finding out later that he has to be impartial as possible. It's those individual sessions where you are more likely to hear things like, " you are absolutely right, she does behave that way".
As far as not expressing your feelings, I see a huge double standard here. Woman are supposed to be all about getting their " feelings hurt". While the men are busy stating the "facts "of the situation. The man expects to come out way ahead, then the councilor tells him feelings Cary way more weight than facts! Feelings are just as important, and truthful. Feelings are how you honestly" feel" doesn't matter whose to blame, whatever the facts were, are, will be, it's how the other one" normally the woman" feels about it, and that is considered a fact!
I took that and ran with it! With my wife being the more business minded always in control, little to say, electrical engineer . And me being the emotionally abused, rejected, ignored, no sex, no intimacy, no spiritual connection, victim.
Councilors may be different but that's the impression I get about counceling. It also helps to point the finger back at yourself some. Mention your own mistakes,and problems, it gives you way more creed.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 25, 2016 14:44:04 GMT -5
That anniversary weekend sounds a lot like my re set weekend. Councilor had me do all the initiating, planning, setting up, etc... I was supposed to be taking charge, taking the lead. It was all laid out to be an intimate weekend with sex. The sex happened, it was the fall out the next day that blew things out of the water, yet helped me discover the real truth. Once the councilor heard all this he just threw his hands in the air in discussed and said that "we" ( I guess he meant all three of us) just set everything back to the beginning.! Fortunately he already knew a lot about us. I had been instructed to " sew seeds" I informed him, " they are landing on stones". He told me " dump the whole bag" that's what I did, and that triggered the big " discussion!" However... However... Like a typical refuser, she acted like all was fine , that nothing bad happened, and couldn't wait to get out the door with her daddy, avoid and deny the whole thing and leave me with all the children.
You may also find some key words to use when stating your case with the councilor can be helpful. Repeat them often. Mine where, rejection, manipulative controller, control, sexless, lack of intimacy, and respect. Use them in your arsenal.
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