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Post by theexplorer on Aug 15, 2024 18:35:17 GMT -5
Thought I'd post an update on my situation. it's been a while since I've been on this site. My elderly parents have been needing a great deal of help with their daily life. Both of them have had some major medical issues. I've been spending 10 to 25+ hours per week at their home, taking them places, shopping for them, etc. etc. It can be exhausting at times!
My marriage, which was practically sexless for many years, turned around 4 years ago. I had a brief emotional fling with another woman. When my wife discovered that, we had some difficult discussions. She ultimately decided she wanted to have sex rather than lose me. That lased for 2 years or a little longer. Then she started cutting back on the frequency of sex. This year, we have had sex 3 times in the last 8 months. As the sex dwindled, some of the old issues began surfacing again. I got grouchy, depressed and withdrawn.
It had been suggested by someone here that I seek some psychotherapy. I was extremely reluctant to do this! The idea of opening up to a "stranger" just seemed so unnatural and uncomfortable. Well, I finally got fed up with spending to many hours per week in suicide ideation. I had read a book sometime back where the author suggested that a person considering suicide should try different options to fix their situation before actually going through with it. I finally picked up the phone and called a counseling service.
This counseling service has a person who matches new people to the appropriate counselor. The counselor recommendation was someone I would NOT have considered!! She is young enough to be my daughter and she had never been married. I did not expect that she would have enough experience to help me. Since I did not have any direct knowledge of her, I reluctantly went for an initial consultation. As it turned out, she really impressed me. She is an excellent counselor! I've been seeing her for several months. The suicide ideation has significantly declined. I have learned that therapy is HARD! I thought it would be sitting down and having a pleasant discussion. Nope. She asks difficult questions. She has an uncanny knack for seeing through things. She also frequently points out errors in my thinking.
My counselor has been pushing me to seriously consider divorce. She has pointed out problems in my marriage that I had not realized. My wife has hurt me much more deeply than I realized. Just to give an example of how perceptive this counselor is, at the end of our third session, her "homework" assignment was to go see a divorce attorney. She said she did NOT think my marriage could be fixed and I needed to seriously consider leaving. How she figured that out so fast is beyond me.
Overall, I would definitely recommend therapy. It has been a good experience for me.
I'll check back in every so often. For the next week my schedule is strangely free.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 17, 2024 13:50:18 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your story!!
Sorry about the flood of spam lately...or you would be getting more feedback/responses.
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Post by javba on Aug 19, 2024 15:28:13 GMT -5
Sending warm wishes and Complete recovery.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 20, 2024 5:06:02 GMT -5
My marriage, which was practically sexless for many years, turned around 4 years ago. I had a brief emotional fling with another woman. When my wife discovered that, we had some difficult discussions. She ultimately decided she wanted to have sex rather than lose me. That lased for 2 years or a little longer. Then she started cutting back on the frequency of sex. This year, we have had sex 3 times in the last 8 months. ... ...the suicide ideation has significantly declined. I have learned that therapy is HARD! I thought it would be sitting down and having a pleasant discussion. Nope. She asks difficult questions. She has an uncanny knack for seeing through things. She also frequently points out errors in my thinking. My counselor has been pushing me to seriously consider divorce. She has pointed out problems in my marriage that I had not realized. My wife has hurt me much more deeply than I realized. Just to give an example of how perceptive this counselor is, at the end of our third session, her "homework" assignment was to go see a divorce attorney. She said she did NOT think my marriage could be fixed and I needed to seriously consider leaving. How she figured that out so fast is beyond me. Meh. Quitting is a remedy that comes readily to mind for troubled marriages. It's easy to think of. Scattered throughout ILIASM are stories of marriage counselors who bust up marriages. That's not to say some shouldn't be discontinued. What's odd to me is that you're being led to divorce when outsourcing fixed things the first time. (The sexlessness, anyway) If you have deep seated problems in the marriage (I should read your background, perhaps) divorce could make some sense. What might make more sense is resolving issues that allowed the marriage to flounder so you can either fix the marriage you have, or not repeat the mistakes with your next relationship. Does this counselor have background in, or willing to explore possibilities of open marriage? My wife's counselor told her to divorce me when I was opening our marriage. She reversed like your wife did. When monogamy is endangered, refusing wives act. Nothing else has worked. Credible plans to open the marriage have worked five times so far. Six if you include refusing husbands. (other refusing husbands just needed persuasion) Getting a consultation with a lawyer is a common step ILIASM members make though. ( Obey the Baza!) Just because you know how to start divorce and what it will be like doesn't mean you have to do it. It does give one reassurance to know where the exit is when the building is on fire. Then you can consider saving people still trapped in the building. Are the ways your wife hurt you forgivable? Preventable? Are assertiveness and self-advocacy skills your counselor may need to help with? |
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Post by theexplorer on Aug 26, 2024 18:02:01 GMT -5
Mirrororchid, You bring up some excellent questions! The counselor's main point is that remaining in the marriage is hurting me. Since there is ongoing damage occurring, she thinks it might be best to leave. The other option is to attempt to change the marriage so it is healthier. Unfortunately, the counselor does NOT think the marriage can be fixed. She has warned me that if I attempt to force change to "fix" the marriage, it could destroy the marriage. Just to give you a little idea of what is going on. My wife has a lot of narcissistic traits. She is frequently engages in blame shifting when confronted with her mistakes. Sometimes she will gaslight me or stone wall me to avoid taking any responsibility for her mistakes. It is nearly impossible to get her to take any responsibility for any problem. She also likes to imagine that she is a "perfect wife." A few weeks back, she said she is the perfect wife that doesn't make mistakes. Therefore all the problems in the marriage are automatically my fault. It is nearly impossible to get her to admit to doing something wrong. When confronted about something, she will literally argue for hours if need be to avoid taking any responsibility. She doesn't necessarily even attempt to make sense when arguing. She just keeps on arguing to avoid taking responsibility. To give an example. Sometime back, my wife made a mistake. It was not a huge deal, but I pointed it out. She immediately began arguing. Then she switched to gaslighting. I pointed out that she was gaslighting me. Then she accused me of making it up because she was not gaslighting me. So, I quoted what she had just said, which was clearly gaslighting. She then denied saying it. It is just about impossible to resolve a matter when dealing with someone like this!
In the past, I would always attempt to make things right with the wife. (Be the peace maker.) Sometimes my wife would try to force me to apologize to her for things she did to me. The counselor has told me to absolutely STOP doing this!! If the wife starts a fight, she can make amends. After thinking about it, it became evident that often times, the fights my wife starts are pointless fights. The counselor pointed out that the purpose of such fights is no the issue being fought over. The purpose is to make me subordinate to my wife.
One of the things the counselor has encouraged me to do is to put more emotional and psychological distance between myself and the wife. She had to explain this concept a couple of times before I finally got it! I have been working on doing this. It has helped. My wife started an episode of her crazy behavior a week ago. I just sat there and observed her. I did not let myself get drawn into it emotionally. That made a HUGE difference! After a minute or two, I said, "You are an intelligent and strong woman. I'm sure you can handle this situation and make the best decision." Then I left the room. In the past, I would try to help her. (Because she always asks for my help.) Once I got involved, she would start fighting and arguing with me. You bring up a valid point about fixing my issues. I have trouble with boundaries, assertiveness, self-worth, etc. Some of these problems are results of the marriage, some predate the marriage. There is plenty to work on though!!! My primary focus, at this point, is to work on self-improvement. I do not expect divorce to be imminent. Right now, taking care of my parents is taking all of my energy and most of my "free" time! It's interesting that some time back, Northstar Mom pointed out that taking care of my wife near the end of her life could really suck. At the time, I had NO idea what she was talking about. I helped take care of my Grandfather. He was apparently atypical. He was an extremely independent man. He rarely let anyone help him with anything!! My mother and I did his grocery shopping for the last 2 years of his life because he couldn't drive anymore. Other than that, he would accept almost no help. He took care of himself until 2 weeks before his death. He spent the last 2 weeks in the hospital. Dealing with my parents has been eye opening! Now, I'm having second thoughts about taking care of my wife! New question: Something has changed inside of me. My wife and I had sex twice in January of this year. Then she cut the sex off. At first, I was grouchy, grumpy and unhappy about it. After some time passed, it seemed like an internal switch flipped. I Lost all interest and desire to have sex. The sex drive is just gone!!! At first, I was startled, then scared. Then, I grew curious and began attempting to understand what is going on. Oddly enough, in the last couple of weeks, I've been considerably happier than usual. The sex drive is still totally absent. I asked the counselor about it. She suggested that maybe the wife has hurt me one time to many. She said my sex drive may come back, but then again, it may not. Apparently, some people lose their sex drive and never regain it. The doctor performed a testosterone test. It as in the 300's, so it's on the low side of normal. Doc doesn't think that is the problem. A few weeks ago, the wife wanted to have sex. We did. It really wasn't enjoyable. It felt good physically, but emotionally, it did nothing. My sex drive is still at zero. Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on? |
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 27, 2024 7:09:17 GMT -5
... the counselor does NOT think the marriage can be fixed. She has warned me that if I attempt to force change to "fix" the marriage, it could destroy the marriage. ... It is nearly impossible to get her to take any responsibility for any problem. She also likes to imagine that she is a "perfect wife." A few weeks back, she said she is the perfect wife that doesn't make mistakes. Therefore all the problems in the marriage are automatically my fault....
...The counselor pointed out that the purpose of such fights is not the issue being fought over. The purpose is to make me subordinate to my wife.
One of the things the counselor has encouraged me to do is to put more emotional and psychological distance between myself and the wife. ... My wife started an episode of her crazy behavior a week ago. I just sat there and observed her. I did not let myself get drawn into it emotionally. That made a HUGE difference! After a minute or two, I said, "You are an intelligent and strong woman. I'm sure you can handle this situation and make the best decision." Then I left the room. In the past, I would try to help her. (Because she always asks for my help.) Once I got involved, she would start fighting and arguing with me. ... Northstar Mom pointed out that taking care of my wife near the end of her life could really suck. ... Dealing with my parents has been eye opening! Now, I'm having second thoughts about taking care of my wife! New question: Something has changed inside of me. My wife and I had sex twice in January of this year. Then she cut the sex off. At first, I was grouchy, grumpy and unhappy about it. After some time passed, it seemed like an internal switch flipped. I Lost all interest and desire to have sex. The sex drive is just gone!!! At first, I was startled, then scared. Then, I grew curious and began attempting to understand what is going on. Oddly enough, in the last couple of weeks, I've been considerably happier than usual. The sex drive is still totally absent. I asked the counselor about it. She suggested that maybe the wife has hurt me one time to many. She said my sex drive may come back, but then again, it may not. Apparently, some people lose their sex drive and never regain it. The doctor performed a testosterone test. It as in the 300's, so it's on the low side of normal. Doc doesn't think that is the problem. A few weeks ago, the wife wanted to have sex. We did. It really wasn't enjoyable. It felt good physically, but emotionally, it did nothing. My sex drive is still at zero. Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on?
"She has warned me that if I attempt to force change to "fix" the marriage, it could destroy the marriage."
But she's suggesting divorce? Break the marriage because attempts to fix it might break it? Common enough sentiment, but strange. That "perfect wife" image would be especially disrupted by opening the marriage. She will fix some of the bad behavior, perhaps including the non-consensual celibacy, or divorce you. But being the perfect wife, it has to be YOUR fault that she divorced you. Problem is, you'll tell the truth. You were sexless. She'll have to weave a web of lies. She won't want that. It's a lot of trouble and damages her self-image. Narcissists can be well aware of their flaws and despise them. They may feel they are terrific yet loathe themselves. If I may add to her criticism, how dare you keep a "perfect wife" to yourself! You need to open the marriage so her gifts can be shared with additional deserving partners. Your selfishness must come to an end! Swerving back into the lane of serious from the rumble strip, stop arguing. It is all your fault. "Yes, dear." Is your only reply. Also, in as much as you are the soul source of mistakes, it behooves you to do as little as possible. Offer assistance only with the caveat that your incompetence is well documented and the results will disappoint. Objective third parties would disagree, but that hardly matters, now does it. Your refusal to help, is actually an upgrade from this approach. If it works, keep it. Proving her wrong doesn't strike me as the juice being worth the squeeze. Accepting all blame seems to get the same result, costs less effort, and gives you your free time back. The arguing sounds exhausting and useless. So, stop. A technique commonly suggested to partners of narcissists is "gray rock". Short answers that provide no additional content. As little feedback as requested. The recipient must ask a hundred questions, which is exhausting in itself. This can be interpreted as a hostile measure and a sign of abandonment. I can see it being necessary in some cases. Not sure if yours is one of them. In the event your wife wants an apology for something that isn't your fault and you give it, quickly, do the fights end? You don't have to believe it. She just wants the words. Mind you, feel free to ask yourself whether any actual blame applies. If it does, that's a fine opportunity for growth you can share with your next partner. One of the things the counselor has encouraged me to do is to put more emotional and psychological distance between myself and the wife.
That' could include the gray rock and telling her what she wants to hear, sure. Key seems to be you want her to love you and blaming you for everything doesn't help. How do you love someone who effs everything up. How is that a life partner you actually want? She needs to cut herself loose, but she wants YOU to do it, because she's the "perfect wife". You don't have to be a narcissist to want the other person to be responsible for the final break. The one who "gave up" is "bad". Perhaps filing for divorce is the ultimate "It's all my fault" admission ad she can dance away with her best image possible intact and plague some other poor sod. Are you willing to give her the "win"? RE: taking care of the Mrs. in case of severe illness. Your approach to letting he help herself will help her in such a case as it would if she were single again. If you stick around long enough, the caveat to expect sub-standard care may help head off criticism. "You did that wrong." "Uh, yeah. I told you I'd eff it up. You accepted the help anyway. Shall I leave and let you do it right? This is the quality of work you can expect, is it acceptable, yes or no? If yes, I'll be back, I'm taking a ten minute break." RE: the sex drive disappearing. If you can botte it, you'll be a rich man. Lotsa ILIASM customers waiting. Absent emotional connection, you masturbated. Your wife was there at the time, but it was just attending to a physical drive like eating a burger satiates hunger, though a seven course meal would have been preferable. I figure I'd feel that way about swinging. I'd wonder what the point was. If you divorce and find someone attracted to you and wants you; validates your existence, I could see you come roaring back. Sure. Apocrypha points out that many divorcees he dated were shocked how raw their sexuality was with him. They were convinced that part of them had gone. They figured sex with him would be going through the motions, but it ignited them. You could be in that state too. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Aug 27, 2024 9:56:53 GMT -5
The pattern of behavior in your description of the way your wife fights is consistent with aspects of bipolar disorder and borderline disorder. If either of these are the case, a lot of what's going on has little to do with you, but it's still your responsibility to choose how to react to it and to maintain healthy boundaries for yourself. With that said, I'm just a stranger, going off a hunch twigged by a couple red flags in one side of the story. As for your dwindling sex drive - as mirrororchid said above, it's pretty common when people emotionally disconnect from the person they are married to, to feel like they have completely lost the sex drive they associated with that person. Similarly, if you think back to the first person you ever fell for and got dumped, you would likely have felt that you would never love again - you associated all those feelings with that person. I have found that once the corner is turned, an internal assessment and decision made, people tend to see their partner differently. I'm getting the sense that you are coming to not like your partner very much, and that can absolutely have an effect on attraction to her. Similarly, one of the reasons it's so upsetting when a partner doesn't want to have sex with you, it's intuited that upstream from that lack of desire is the idea that they don't like you very much. |
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Post by toughtiger on Sept 3, 2024 20:37:01 GMT -5
New question: Something has changed inside of me. My wife and I had sex twice in January of this year. Then she cut the sex off. At first, I was grouchy, grumpy and unhappy about it. After some time passed, it seemed like an internal switch flipped. I Lost all interest and desire to have sex. The sex drive is just gone!!! At first, I was startled, then scared. Then, I grew curious and began attempting to understand what is going on. Oddly enough, in the last couple of weeks, I've been considerably happier than usual. The sex drive is still totally absent. I asked the counselor about it. She suggested that maybe the wife has hurt me one time to many. She said my sex drive may come back, but then again, it may not. Apparently, some people lose their sex drive and never regain it. The doctor performed a testosterone test. It as in the 300's, so it's on the low side of normal. Doc doesn't think that is the problem. A few weeks ago, the wife wanted to have sex. We did. It really wasn't enjoyable. It felt good physically, but emotionally, it did nothing. My sex drive is still at zero. Does anyone have any thoughts on what might be going on? I can only speak for myself but at a certain point even though i desire sex ... i simply no longer want it with HIM ... maybe your desire is gone relating to her. my spouse has killed any attraction or desire to be with him.... i have a friend and a simple chat can get me all worked up .... but my spouse nope even if he managed to get it up over and over i have NO interest. would turn it down even though i miss sex and the benefits of sex. I am now questioning all my thoughts about love/ marriage and relationships..... i wish i had "dated" more before ... wish i left before it got to the point of the dislike i feel everyday.... I do not have any remorse or guilt about my friend whom we have video meets and want to meet in real life .... logic tells me i should feel guilty or bad for "cheating" but i don't. |
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