|
Post by sundayblue0071 on Jun 28, 2024 1:11:57 GMT -5
I had dinner with a childhood friend of mine not long ago. He's been married twice and divorced twice. I point blank asked him if he still believed in the institution of marriage. And replied he did. He was very happy with his first wife, for the first five years. They were intimate, traveled, and enjoyed each other's company to the fullest. Then the kids arrived. 1, 2, and 3. And the marriage began falling apart. One of his kids is autistic to boot. Tough. But according to his words, she became mean and no longer "nice." He couldn't take it anymore and filed for divorce. The next woman already had kids and they married and loved each other "while it lasted." They were together, for 10+ years. And then one day, in his words, she was no longer "nice" to him. Her behavior changed. And it wasn't the lack of intimacy. Just a change in behavior. Kindness (or lack thereof) seems to play an important factor.
I, personally, always felt monogamous. I just wanted to devote myself to one woman. That's how my dad was with my mom. He devoted his love to her. Spoiled her. And my mom, now 81, misses him terribly since his passing. Her "other half" is gone and she lives with it. They were married just shy of 60 years.
But now, I really wonder if man was meant to be monogamous. The feudal lords, the ancient kings, all had boatloads of mistresses and spoiled themselves rotten with as much sex as they wanted. And I'm sure most of them were happy about it.
I know there are open marriages and I know there are polygamous men out there. I was proud of once dating 3 women at once. I just wanted to see how much I could get away with. It didn't last too long but it was fun.
Do you still believe in the institution of marriage?
|
|
|
Post by mirrororchid on Jun 28, 2024 6:24:21 GMT -5
No. Marriage was easier to manage when people died in the forties routinely.
Your friend was happy for 5 years and had kids. I'm wondering whether combining the two is the mistake.
Marriage is for spouses, building a home and family. Sex is for lovers. Merging the two results in long, commonly interminable lengths of time with no lover. The kings enjoyed their mistresses, but being a mistress was fraught with societal costs. These costs could be overcome through the power of a king or lord.
We retain the shame today. Lovers are dismissed when they are no longer "nice". The relationship does not serve its purpose any longer.
I'm stewing through a hypothesis with a working title, "Rocker, Toothbrush, Condom"
Folks tend to want someone to grow old with, someone to love (in all ways), and electric adrenaline dopamine blast.
Marriage is a vehicle for the first. To get the house, kids, and rocking chairs on the porch; someone by your side for support for richer, poorer, sickness, health, better, and worse. That's your lifemate. If you go celibate, this is expected and just fine. Bodies break down. It's inevitable. It isn't the point of marriage.
The abundant appreciation of the value of others is for lovers. Esther Perel reported women stay infatuated with new partners for 2-4 years, while men last about 10. These are people you want to learn all about, including what makes their bodies happy. This is the "dessert" part of marriage. Life is short, we eat it first. But when life is long, satisfaction for four or ten years followed by the long wait until you land in those rockers on the porch is where marriage goes off the rails. Twice, for your friend.
Happy marriages are the ones high on "security" stage love. The passionate part ebbs and we start getting important things done like building retirement funds and getting a house and kids. All good stuff, but you dispose of the "dessert". Nothing but meat and veggies for up to 40 times longer than the dessert course lasted. It's badly imbalanced. The fidelity vow bars escape from the useful, humdrum, slow train to the grave.
I propose abandoning the expectation of fidelity and separation of the role of lover from our spouse. Most of them aren't very good at it. and biology has a say. Pheromones can invigorate bodies for love when the reassuring scents of our spouse bring us comfort for sleep and drive to continue for the long haul.
Better to find a new lover, cherish them for the wonderful discoveries ahead, then part ways recognizing each other's worth as a potential spouse, but leaving anyway because you already have one. (unless you're up for adding on and being a hinge, but walk before we run, yes?)
Or, you don't have a spouse and deliberately make note to consider taking them on as your life partner someday, or make the decision that a lifetime is going to work with this one and you tie the knot.
The mistake is in expecting every single mutually beneficial, pleasant bond should become that life partner pair, just because you've had your toothbrushes side by side for a year or two.
Finally, these lovers and spouses should recognize the difference between two compatible people and two wanton animals that mutually arrive in heat. Sometimes these will be a new co-worker, the pizza guy, or an old flame who had an insurmountable independent streak, or a propensity for self-destruction but hit every single one of your buttons. These are people you'd not want to invite over for any meal except breakfast, if that, but by Godfrey, if you stay safe, where's the harm?
These comets that happen by, in their extended orbits for a visit now and then, have been blessed with supernovae to share, and if your world lacks such shows of light, I question the demand that every single lover must be someone you share not just a bed with, but a kitchen and hearth.
The model leaves gaps, but it could target the goals of our lives where current marriage roles stifle vast tracts of life's landscapes; tunnel vision at sunset. We know this. We feel it. We insist on it. But we don't earnestly ask why. It's just "how it's done".
|
|
m76
Full Member
Posts: 397
Member is Online
|
Post by m76 on Jun 28, 2024 7:11:37 GMT -5
From my own experience and looking around at my extended family. It seems like many people change in their 30s, either personality, desires, or priorities resulting in the person they married younger no longer being the person they want. All of my family except me are on their second marriage and all of them were in love with their first, until they weren't. All of them are happier now then they were at the end of the first marriage.
I think the idea of a life commitment should change. Some people stay in love through all the stages of life but most don't.
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Jun 28, 2024 8:51:54 GMT -5
I have an unusual take as we were together and had our kids and items for decades before actually doing the paperwork.... of marriage. i wish i had not done it.... i cannot explain but when you are together and everyday is a choice it is different then a life sentence by contract.....
As i read these stories i cannot help but wonder if the answers are more around what do we do as we start down the hill .... one person is UNHAPPY ... that is when people are not "NICE"......... kids and division of that responsibility takes a huge toll.... so does in my opinion any division of major life situation...i am sure income and effort causes strife as well...
I am NOT the same person i was a decade ago or even 5 years it is his choice to get to know and adapt to my changes and visa versa or we hold the idea of well 10 years ago we were doing this or that ..... i found my time unmarried but committed we were more flexible and paid attention more to small things ... marriage seemed to put things on auto pilot.......... and we wonder why we did not see the iceberg coming ..... accepting changes and adapting is far easier in the moment then fighting about "we used to " crap.
i wonder why others would go to a second or third marriage ....those fun flirty first year times never last........ how long until the small things add up with #2 ....when i am single again divorce or widow .... i will be good to shack up or spend time as fwb but not marriage.
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Jun 28, 2024 11:18:01 GMT -5
I don't think I would consider entering in to marriage again. I am 0 and 2 for that institution. I don't know that I changed much during my 2nd marriage, but my then W sure did. She seemed to become controlling and self centered focusing on traveling and always being on the go. Each year seemed to be less about us and more about vacations and activities. And if you believe in statistics then you know the % of marriages that end in divorce.
|
|
|
Post by lonelyhubby on Jun 28, 2024 11:42:15 GMT -5
All I can say is that I wish I had done the Prenup when it was offered.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 28, 2024 21:44:34 GMT -5
lonelyhubby asks "Do you still believe in the institution of marriage?" Personally I think it is a perfectly legitimate institution and suits a hell of a lot of people. But, not "all" people. Indeed in some cases, marriage would be highly inadvisible. A cursory read of a handful of stories here shows us that.
|
|
|
Post by sundayblue0071 on Jun 30, 2024 0:45:15 GMT -5
I propose abandoning the expectation of fidelity and separation of the role of lover from our spouse.
Abandoning the expectation of fidelity? I just don't see how we can get passed it when fidelity is what religion, more than anything, has cemented into our culture. People continue to marry with the expectation that they will satisfy each other t'ill death do us part. And yet we know this is utter nonsense. And we know that many men are happier if given the opportunity to sample more "dessert' rather than stay stuck with just one person. But I know that I chose wrong. I'm to blame in my situation and no one else. By 37 I had given up on finding the "right one" for me because if she existed, we were simply not finding each other. And I settled. And that was a serious mistake. Settling in order to get married? Yikes, now that is stupid. I desperately want more "dessert" but right now my death by chocolate resides in my fantasy life and I remain stuck in some god-awful sweet potato pudding!
|
|
|
Post by toughtiger on Jun 30, 2024 11:28:52 GMT -5
A friend recently shared a theory not sure where he got it but it makes sense more and more...
Marriage men reach a point to be "ready" and will take that step with whom is available and wanting to marry them...... For women they believe they are in love and makes up the idea of "the one" and destiny.
Is it no wonder it does not last... my friend who shared this is divorced and is so sure of this because his own story... he said he was Ready and while he had other GF in past that might have been better matches . but he did not feel ready.... looking back he claims if he was not ready .......he would have been more selective.....lol
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 9, 2024 7:04:58 GMT -5
I had dinner with a childhood friend of mine not long ago. He's been married twice and divorced twice. I point blank asked him if he still believed in the institution of marriage. And replied he did. He was very happy with his first wife, for the first five years. They were intimate, traveled, and enjoyed each other's company to the fullest. Then the kids arrived. 1, 2, and 3. And the marriage began falling apart. One of his kids is autistic to boot. Tough. But according to his words, she became mean and no longer "nice." He couldn't take it anymore and filed for divorce. The next woman already had kids and they married and loved each other "while it lasted." They were together, for 10+ years. And then one day, in his words, she was no longer "nice" to him. Her behavior changed. And it wasn't the lack of intimacy. Just a change in behavior. Kindness (or lack thereof) seems to play an important factor.
I, personally, always felt monogamous. I just wanted to devote myself to one woman. That's how my dad was with my mom. He devoted his love to her. Spoiled her. And my mom, now 81, misses him terribly since his passing. Her "other half" is gone and she lives with it. They were married just shy of 60 years.
But now, I really wonder if man was meant to be monogamous. The feudal lords, the ancient kings, all had boatloads of mistresses and spoiled themselves rotten with as much sex as they wanted. And I'm sure most of them were happy about it.
I know there are open marriages and I know there are polygamous men out there. I was proud of once dating 3 women at once. I just wanted to see how much I could get away with. It didn't last too long but it was fun.
Do you still believe in the institution of marriage?
Reposting to move spam down...
|
|