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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 2, 2024 19:15:54 GMT -5
Well, a quick update... He went to his psych appointment yesterday and we talked after I got done working. True to his word, he spoke with his therapist about our situation. She didn't have a lot of insight for him. Just listened to him and responded to the things he said. He apologized for what he has put me through and said it would not be fair for him to prevent me from having something that I have needed for so long and that he has denied me. He says the ball is in my court about how I want to proceed and he will live with what I decide I need to do. I'm still reeling a bit from this shift in my reality, sorting things out in my head, trying to figure things out. Last night I started doing some reading about ethical non-monogamy and polyamory. So much jargon and terminology. So many "rules". But I found what I think are some decent resources: -https://psyche.com/guides/how-to-explore-ethical-non-monogamy-with-care-and-kindness -https://www.drheathschechinger.com/resources (lots of books, podcasts, and other resources here) And I looked into related meetups in my area. This is just the beginning and I have some hope. I no longer need to conduct myself in the shadows. Today, we've checked in with each other. He's feeling shaken, and I suspect a little bit of fear. I'm feeling emotional and a little overwhelmed. We're okay. Wow. Good on Mr. Catsloveme! It can be very scary for the monogamous spouse (or agamous). Several podcasts go over the power of assurance to help partners through the transition to open marriage. jerri is already in the arrangement you may be embarking on. Maybe she'll have some pointers or you can check her posts for her history and strategy. I personally like Polyamory Weekly and Multiamory podcasts. Talk Your Poly Off visits the subject of insecurity on occasion which may be useful for Mr. Catsloveme. I've listened and learned a lot if you have specific questions, I've likely heard it asked on the podcasts I listen to. Not for nothing, I was in a hinge relationship about 30 years ago before polyamory was a part of our vernacular. |
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Post by toughtiger on Apr 2, 2024 20:01:23 GMT -5
I am happy for you catsloveme .... it will be good to be able to proceed with having a life |
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Missingout
Full Member
Posts: 244
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by Missingout on Apr 2, 2024 20:25:29 GMT -5
Well, a quick update... He went to his psych appointment yesterday and we talked after I got done working. True to his word, he spoke with his therapist about our situation. She didn't have a lot of insight for him. Just listened to him and responded to the things he said. He apologized for what he has put me through and said it would not be fair for him to prevent me from having something that I have needed for so long and that he has denied me. He says the ball is in my court about how I want to proceed and he will live with what I decide I need to do. I'm still reeling a bit from this shift in my reality, sorting things out in my head, trying to figure things out. Last night I started doing some reading about ethical non-monogamy and polyamory. So much jargon and terminology. So many "rules". But I found what I think are some decent resources: -https://psyche.com/guides/how-to-explore-ethical-non-monogamy-with-care-and-kindness -https://www.drheathschechinger.com/resources (lots of books, podcasts, and other resources here) And I looked into related meetups in my area. This is just the beginning and I have some hope. I no longer need to conduct myself in the shadows. Today, we've checked in with each other. He's feeling shaken, and I suspect a little bit of fear. I'm feeling emotional and a little overwhelmed. We're okay. This is great!! Thanks for the info as well. Happy hunting>>>> |
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Post by deadzone75 on Apr 3, 2024 11:13:40 GMT -5
Well, a quick update... He went to his psych appointment yesterday and we talked after I got done working. True to his word, he spoke with his therapist about our situation. She didn't have a lot of insight for him. Just listened to him and responded to the things he said. He apologized for what he has put me through and said it would not be fair for him to prevent me from having something that I have needed for so long and that he has denied me. He says the ball is in my court about how I want to proceed and he will live with what I decide I need to do. I'm still reeling a bit from this shift in my reality, sorting things out in my head, trying to figure things out. Last night I started doing some reading about ethical non-monogamy and polyamory. So much jargon and terminology. So many "rules". But I found what I think are some decent resources: -https://psyche.com/guides/how-to-explore-ethical-non-monogamy-with-care-and-kindness -https://www.drheathschechinger.com/resources (lots of books, podcasts, and other resources here) And I looked into related meetups in my area. This is just the beginning and I have some hope. I no longer need to conduct myself in the shadows. Today, we've checked in with each other. He's feeling shaken, and I suspect a little bit of fear. I'm feeling emotional and a little overwhelmed. We're okay. No, no, no...the ball is in HIS court, and he is choosing to do absolutely nothing with it but pass it back to you and then pretending to be "shaken" at what you might do next. He's wasting no time in setting himself up to be the victim. So shaken is he, that he isn't moved to make the slightest move? Not the slightest attempt to be intimate just to see what happens before he gives his spouse his blessing to have sex with someone else? And yet he's just so shaken. This alleged therapist, meanwhile, has to be one of the worst in existence if they really said nothing. They would I think, at the very least, recommend getting you both in the same room for counseling. "Gee, doc, my wife wants to have sex but I don't." "Cool story, bro, don't know what to tell ya." Talk about making zero effort. I hope you find the best FWB out there who gives you everything your husband refuses to even try and give you. And I hope you don't feel an ounce of guilt, despite how many times your husband talks about how he's "soldiering on" with this heavy weight. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 3, 2024 12:28:34 GMT -5
Today, we've checked in with each other. He's feeling shaken, and I suspect a little bit of fear. I'm feeling emotional and a little overwhelmed. We're okay. Rereading your old posts/themes and learning of you H's childhood trama. It seems dishonest of him to have entered into the marriage knowing he had a boatload of issues. But perhaps he has done as best he can and is to be commended for being a good father. You have had the talks with him and at this point he cannot function as a spouse in the intimay realm. So be it. You have been a long time working toward opening the marriage and his willingness to go along is commendable. I hope you are successful finding someone who fills the missing role toward your intimacy needs. Deadzone75 is spot on about this therapist. She is a useless as tits on a bore hog. |
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Apr 3, 2024 13:04:44 GMT -5
No, no, no...the ball is in HIS court, and he is choosing to do absolutely nothing with it but pass it back to you and then pretending to be "shaken" at what you might do next. He's wasting no time in setting himself up to be the victim. So shaken is he, that he isn't moved to make the slightest move? Not the slightest attempt to be intimate just to see what happens before he gives his spouse his blessing to have sex with someone else? And yet he's just so shaken. This alleged therapist, meanwhile, has to be one of the worst in existence if they really said nothing. They would I think, at the very least, recommend getting you both in the same room for counseling. "Gee, doc, my wife wants to have sex but I don't." "Cool story, bro, don't know what to tell ya." Talk about making zero effort. I hope you find the best FWB out there who gives you everything your husband refuses to even try and give you. And I hope you don't feel an ounce of guilt, despite how many times your husband talks about how he's "soldiering on" with this heavy weight. Your H needs to feel a lot more than shaken. He needs to feel shame and remorse and he needs to feel an obligation to make things as right as possiblke when it comes to your intimacy needs. he comes across as such a coward. Deadzone75 is spot on about this therapist. She is a useless as tits on a bore hog. My experience is that therapists generally just tell you what you want to hear. Also i would expect the H here is unwilling to truly except how much harm has been caused, just like when I talk to my wife about my depression its something she thinks is my problem. Which, when thinking about it, sure, we're each responsible for our own happiness but marriage binds you to another person and in my mind my spouse's problems should also be my problems. That's what the partnership should be right? |
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 207
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Post by catsloveme on Apr 3, 2024 15:03:55 GMT -5
I was encouraged by another member to post here about what's happening in my life because others may find it helpful. I wanted to pay forward the benefit of what I got here when I found this board years ago when I was in a very dark and lonely place and trying to face what was happening in my marriage.
I was hesitant to post because I anticipated some of the responses that I'm getting. Some have been very helpful, or at least supportive. But they are outweighed by those that are unhelpful and negative. Maybe some of you mean well, but your posts are coming across as angry and bitter. There's no compassion. No willingness to listen to my story and understand a different point of view or experience, or to consider that there are two decades of history between me and my husband and you might not be aware of every little detail. Instead, I'm told that my experience and perspective is wrong. What I've shared is dismissed. There's no conversation--just an airing of other peoples issues on my thread. I challenge you to consider whether you have treated your spouse that way, and think about whether that could have some impact on how your spouse interacts--or does not interact--with you.
There has been discussion about the decline of this site. I concur that it's less active than in the past. There's also more judgment than what was present in the past. It doesn't feel like a safe space anymore where people can work through the painful experience that is living in a sexless marriage. I'm sad to find this to be true for myself, and I hope that there's still some value here for others. Before you put your words out into the world, please consider their impact. Your intent might be good, but it's the impact that matters most.
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Post by isthisit on Apr 3, 2024 15:18:17 GMT -5
is a useless as tits on a bore hog. 🤣 This is going straight into my already crowded vocabulary. Fabulous. |
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Post by deadzone75 on Apr 3, 2024 15:30:22 GMT -5
I was encouraged by another member to post here about what's happening in my life because others may find it helpful. I wanted to pay forward the benefit of what I got here when I found this board years ago when I was in a very dark and lonely place and trying to face what was happening in my marriage. I was hesitant to post because I anticipated some of the responses that I'm getting. Some have been very helpful, or at least supportive. But they are outweighed by those that are unhelpful and negative. Maybe some of you mean well, but your posts are coming across as angry and bitter. There's no compassion. No willingness to listen to my story and understand a different point of view or experience, or to consider that there are two decades of history between me and my husband and you might not be aware of every little detail. Instead, I'm told that my experience and perspective is wrong. What I've shared is dismissed. There's no conversation--just an airing of other peoples issues on my thread. I challenge you to consider whether you have treated your spouse that way, and think about whether that could have some impact on how your spouse interacts--or does not interact--with you. There has been discussion about the decline of this site. I concur that it's less active than in the past. There's also more judgment than what was present in the past. It doesn't feel like a safe space anymore where people can work through the painful experience that is living in a sexless marriage. I'm sad to find this to be true for myself, and I hope that there's still some value here for others. Before you put your words out into the world, please consider their impact. Your intent might be good, but it's the impact that matters most. I don't know if my posts are included, but I'll assume they are, since my responses today are much more direct than they used to be five or six years ago. Finally out of my SM, I hold more bitterness toward my former refuser than I ever did while I was in the relationship, mostly because of how it ended. This bleeds over to ANY refuser I hear about. My patience is less, my words more blunt. I've no time to not tell the truth because I lied so much during my marriage. I lied for a lifetime to myself and to others. This doesn't mean I lack compassion. On the contrary, I have all the compassion in the world for the refused, but nothing but contempt for refusers. Whether they are more polite than others, maybe, but they are all refusers, and that is betrayal. If you have had an otherwise great relationship for decades, then you are in an elevated situation compared to some in here, but you are still here. You have obviously treated him with the upmost care and respect throughout your relationship. And you are still here. And here is a safe space, even if people don't view your H with a measure of objectivity. Is it possible to co-exist in a SM with an agreement on FWB? I'm sure it can be, and if that's the missing piece in your life, I hope you find it. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 3, 2024 17:48:06 GMT -5
Your H needs to feel a lot more than shaken. He needs to feel shame and remorse and he needs to feel an obligation to make things as right as possiblke when it comes to your intimacy needs. he comes across as such a coward. Deadzone75 is spot on about this therapist. She is a useless as tits on a bore hog. My experience is that therapists generally just tell you what you want to hear. Also i would expect the H here is unwilling to truly except how much harm has been caused, just like when I talk to my wife about my depression its something she thinks is my problem. Which, when thinking about it, sure, we're each responsible for our own happiness but marriage binds you to another person and in my mind my spouse's problems should also be my problems. That's what the partnership should be right? I told my wife that I had a problem, that celibacy was grating my nerves for months on end. She responded that it was "our problem", but months passed with no apparent effort on her part to solve "our" problem. So I set out to date to fix "our" problem with only my effort. She then solved "our" problem by resetting "us". It was my complaint, so it was my problem. I introduced polyamory into our relationship. THEN it became her problem, and she fixed it quickly with what fixed my problem. I made it into "our" problem by making her unhappy. Not on purpose but through the only way out of celibacy that didn't require her effort. Yes, m76, she should care about your problems. If you're sick, does she bring you chicken soup? Why? It's not her disease. Nor shared. It's all your problem. No doubt there are dozens of problems she could ignore, but doesn't. Are you cooking tonight and need paprika? She's there for you! She'll pick some up on her way home. For whatever reason, intimacy starvation is outside the realm of the possible, until you fix it yourself. Then...THEN aha! The solution is discovered! Or she divorces you, which, in its own way, fixes your problem. catsloveme Whoever asked you to share, I hope you'll agree. Navigating transition to an open marriage is not a common topic. There's jerri , but details were few. Apocrypha gave some details past tense (his broke up due to hypocritical jealousy by Mrs. Apocrypha [see his posts for details]) If you're up for some play by play, it could be helpful as well as potentially uplifting. Stories of success in all their forms are a useful balm in this environment of chronic melancholy. Given your benevolence to your husband, I have assumed he has medical or psychological reasons he is profoundly ashamed of and cannot share with you. His therapist has not yet determined a way for him to break through them, and both of them are not sanguine about fixing his issues in a time frame that accommodates compassion for your intimacy starvation. More than a few ILIASM members are of the school that they do not want an FWB. They want their spouse and only their spouse because that is what their marital vows told them they should be getting. They are not wrong, but you and Mr. catsloveme are, at least for now, choosing pragmatism to keep your marriage together. Many choose to break their marriages apart and seek out a spouse who can keep marital vows to include having and holding til death, no forsaking. Even as you begin pursuing this uncommon path towards potential resolution of your key conflict, there come reactions more fitted towards conflict and severance. They are the type of partisanship suitable for the us-versus-them of a contentious divorce. Such sentiment can be well-intentioned but counterproductive when you are seeking to strengthen your marital bond by the defusing of the main incompatibility. Yours is an environment of hope that is not commonly discussed nor experienced. The menu of selections in how to relate to a person granted approval to pursue love outside of marriage is scant. It calls for some out of the box reactions that most people are not well acquainted with. You, yourself, may be unacquainted with emotional disposition that will accommodate the ordinary supportive reaction of your allies, while resolving to stay on a path of reconciliation and broader love. Navigating the rage of allies here may serve you well if you find yourself defending your decisions and those of your husband to co-workers or family that are similarly unfamiliar with the dynamics behind an open marriage. It is not a path well-worn. Few know what it's like, nor what to do, nor what to say,...so they say what they would in response to the disrupted marriages they have known. The uncomfortable reactions here may serve as excellent practice for those you encounter with people face to face. |
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Post by ironhamster on Apr 9, 2024 4:31:13 GMT -5
We're all finding our way through our problems, and I am not going to criticize your solution, as it's likely the best one for you, catsloveme. I am glad to see you, and everyone else, progressing on their road to happiness. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 23, 2024 13:27:53 GMT -5
I was encouraged by another member to post here about what's happening in my life because others may find it helpful. I wanted to pay forward the benefit of what I got here when I found this board years ago when I was in a very dark and lonely place and trying to face what was happening in my marriage. I was hesitant to post because I anticipated some of the responses that I'm getting. Some have been very helpful, or at least supportive. But they are outweighed by those that are unhelpful and negative. Maybe some of you mean well, but your posts are coming across as angry and bitter. There's no compassion. No willingness to listen to my story and understand a different point of view or experience, or to consider that there are two decades of history between me and my husband and you might not be aware of every little detail. Instead, I'm told that my experience and perspective is wrong. What I've shared is dismissed. There's no conversation--just an airing of other peoples issues on my thread. I challenge you to consider whether you have treated your spouse that way, and think about whether that could have some impact on how your spouse interacts--or does not interact--with you. Your posts history isn't properly showing up for me so I can't see examples of what you are talking about. There are a few people on here who I have found to be hostile and. on the other hand, a few people who tend to attack or characterize people who try to help them (I tend to block both). Without examples, it's hard to understand what you mean by "positive" and "negative" and it's hard for me to trust it because in my own experience - sometimes people characterize advice with those two words - the measuring stick tends to be whether one feels emotionally validated and has little to do with the facts, effectiveness, or appropriateness of the advice in resolving the problem that's presented. There's a lot of bad medicine to take that can feel like a lack of compassion, but that is actually offered from a place of experience and care. So, it's with trepidation that I share with you these thoughts. Are they "negative"? I also had a decade-plus marriage to a person I loved who experienced a sexual trauma, and I eventually found myself to be unhappily celibate. I also agreed to explore a consensually non-monogamous marriage for several years and across several configurations as an alternative to divorce. Because I live in a very large city and was lucky to have some connections to people experienced in the lifestyle. I was well-researched and well connected, compared to most people. Iteration #1 was "don't ask/tell". It ended almost as fast as it began, when Mrs Apocrypha noticed a shift in my attitude and snooped until she found evidence that I'd gone on a walk with someone. She treated it as if I'd committed an infidelity (though she herself had had a full non-consensual affair across the previous year). Because this ended up a distinction without a difference from an affair, I decided I would no longer participate in this configuration, as there was no benefit. Iteration #2 was a "full disclosure and involvement" right down to both parties deciding they must meet the other partners and also how involved they will be. This version ran fine when Mrs Apocrypha (who was attractive), found someone quickly. It became and remained complicated for the remainder of the relationship when I also participated with my own external partner. There were some positive points with my external relationships. I found much to enjoy there. The surprise, though, was that it didn't solve the problem of my celibate and/or sexually fraught marriage. For one thing, instead of the standard I expected in my marriage dropping ("satisfied elsewhere"), the standard of treatment I expected was raised. I discovered that I was treated with more general respect, kindness, and love from people who were comparably strangers when compared to my marriage. Secondly, I came to feel that my regular but occasional external relationships felt like a "holiday" away from where I lived. I liken it to living in a leaky cold house, but taking a tropical paradise vacation on occasion. The vacation is appreciated, enjoyed, treasured and in no way diminished, but it doesn't actually solve the problem of the home - the day to day foundation. Nor was I comforted that my spouse likely felt the same way about me ... which lead me to the next thought... ...That being that there was *a reason* my spouse was choosing to risk our marriage, family, lifestyle, friends, household, kids and future, as well as "mostly" choosing celibacy herself RATHER than have sex with me. Whatever that reason was, not having sex with me was more important to her than all those things. So, I was no longer able to distract myself from the idea that there was a reason for this happening/not happening within my primary relationship. It wasn't indifference to sex, given what was at stake. It was actually very important to her - more important than everything else. Despite not really knowing the reason, the fact that there was one was evidence enough of a level of antipathy in my primary relationship that was absolutely painful to endure. It didn't change the fact that I loved and still desired her. I still had a life with her. The cost of divorcing was high and I knew it would be. It's why I have a lot of empathy for anyone taking this road or others as a way of reconfiguring. I'm outlining my experiences with it to you not to tell you you are wrong, or to make it about me but to shine a light on various regrets and hurdles that I wish I could have seen earlier in my broadly similar background, to evaluate whether or not my problem was actually being solved. |
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