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Post by anotherdavid on Aug 20, 2023 2:25:43 GMT -5
Hi All
This forum has been amazing because believe it or not, I thought it was just me that a SM was happening to!
I've been married for 30 years and the last 10 has been a total drought. She won't discuss the matter beyond a swift "that part of me has died" and I always end up feeling bad for "putting it on her". She really won't discuss whatever is really going on for her.
My strategy to date has been to put up with it; don't want to contemplate divorce for all kinds of reason but the more I work my way through these threads and learn from others, I realise that as much as I love her, I resent her for the frustrations I experience. And of course that resentment "appears" in me being grumpy and dissatisfied.
I understand that I am responsible for my feelings and life and right now, I am probably just in denial.
Did you guys grapple with the idea that as important and sex and intimacy is, they are only a small part of a lifelong relationship and you should just tolerate its absence?
Looking forward to your thoughts.
David
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m76
Full Member
Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Aug 20, 2023 2:49:54 GMT -5
Your situation sounds similar to mine. I'm in that same place where I'm grappling with determining how important sex is. I'm planning on finding a psychologist to talk to about it.
The hardest part for me in living with the status quo is when she wants to give me a kiss or hold my hand, knowing that will be the limit of the physical contact.
I have a hard time talking to her about sex without ending up feeling like I'm being unreasonable and selfish.
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 20, 2023 3:58:02 GMT -5
Yes sex and intimacy are only a small part of a marriage. But they are a critically important part. They are the glue that binds and bonds the 2 people in a committed relationship. And as you can see in your own marriage their absence results in frustration and a bitterness that comes from knowing the person you love and cherish has little regard for your happiness or well being. Without them you are just 2 people co-habitating and perhaps co-parenting, but you are not a couple. You and your W are not yoked together, both pulling in the same direction.
I could not learn to tolerate the absence of sex and intimacy in my marriage. I tried relentlessly to keep them in the marriage but in the end I was the only one yoked and pulling, and realizing that was the true state of my marriage, I ended it.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Aug 21, 2023 8:53:25 GMT -5
I probably sound like a broken record. But missing the sex is bad. Missing intimacy effects the relationship. The fact that they don't care about their spouses, wants, needs and feelings is the death card.
I hung in for a long time. I found ways to work around the resentment, and self confidence issues the lack of sex brought. I tried to get the attention and intimacy else where. But no matter how you slice it. This isn't the marriage we thought we were getting. We end up house mates. In the end the resentment would come back and it was worse. They decide for both parties to be sexless. Then refuse to talk about it or work on it. If this was a roommate that handled disputes that way we would throw them out
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Post by catlover on Aug 21, 2023 12:01:06 GMT -5
So much of this rings true with me as well. I was really hopeful a while back (couple months ago), after many long (and sometimes heated) discussions, we eventually came to a meeting of the minds and things were all set to resume at least trying some form of intimacy. The next morning she had a fall and things were pretty much sunk. I have tried a few times since then to raise the topic and it hasn't gone well, leaving me feeling like a total shit. I have left it alone for a while and then last night,
sitting next to the campfire at the trailer last night I asked the question, so, are we never going to try things again, or am I wrong?". The response was an icy, "I don't know" and pretty much silence since then.
I think I am pretty much at the end of my tether now. Resentful? Fuck yes, in spades!!! But, of course, I am not allowed to express my displeasure in other wat=ys, then I am told I am "too aggressive and that really turns me off". It goes two ways honey!
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Post by anotherdavid on Aug 21, 2023 15:44:51 GMT -5
I probably sound like a broken record. But missing the sex is bad. Missing intimacy effects the relationship. The fact that they don't care about their spouses, wants, needs and feelings is the death card. I hung in for a long time. I found ways to work around the resentment, and self confidence issues the lack of sex brought. I tried to get the attention and intimacy else where. But no matter how you slice it. This isn't the marriage we thought we were getting. We end up house mates. In the end the resentment would come back and it was worse. They decide for both parties to be sexless. Then refuse to talk about it or work on it. If this was a roommate that handled disputes that way we would throw them out Although so painful, it's fascinating to see how common the behaviour pattern of the refuser is. I'm working with a therapist to help with this and his observation was the constant closing down of the conversation was most likely a behaviour to keep herself safe which included deliberately ignoring the impact on me as that would hurt her too much. Right now I had to focus on this not being much to do with me although I am collateral damage. He said it better but to be honest it helped a lot to look at it that way. Doesn't detract from my need to take ownership on how my life goes on from her but with 4 young adult children (yeah we used to have sex đđ) I'm not going to rush into anything destructive from a family point of view. Really appreciate yours and the other responses, finding this Forum has been a massive help. |
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Post by isthisit on Aug 21, 2023 16:08:41 GMT -5
Welcome to the gang anotherdavid . Itâs nice to have another Brit here. Yep, we have all thought that it was just us, and the relief that it isnât, and that our responses are actually very normal is priceless. I am going to tell you what you already know. That sex, physical and emotional intimacy are reasonable expectations in a marriage. Thatâs what the vows make clear. The âto have and to holdâ parts. H and I vowed âwith my body, I thee worshipâ. Now after the first five years there was precious little worshipping going on, and I did mention the vows a time or two. Sexual intimacy is the factor which makes a martial relationship unique- because no matter how much you love family, friends, whomever, thatâs off the table. Itâs just for your spouse. For you to give and receive that form of pleasure just with them, and for them to do the same for you. So, youâre not a monster for wanting it, missing it, or feeling resentful that she has unilaterally decided for you that sexual intimacy is no longer part of your life. Quite how you could claim to love a spouse and not want to give this pleasure to make them happy and fulfilled in life is hard to understand. Just like you I wrestled with the idea that it was acceptable to detonate a happy family simply to get my rocks off. Selfish, surely? Well, no, it isnât. What I wasnât focusing on was that the quality of my life matters too. I was so busy being everything everyone else needed me to be, I had overlooked that fact that I counted too. I dropped the bomb, my kids were fine after a tricky couple of days and they supported me and my choices when they realised how miserable I had become in that terrible marriage. Because coming here helped me realise that the âeverything is fine bar the sexâ thing I had told myself was rubbish. The sexlessness was but a symptom of a plain old dud marriage which was well past itâs due date. I am glad you find this place helpful. Good luck with whichever route you take. |
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Post by anotherdavid on Aug 21, 2023 16:50:44 GMT -5
Hi isthisitQuite correct, I'm a Brit - what gave it away? There's certainly some "tough love" here in terms of the message that nothing is likely to change if I hang around - I'm really trying to stay out of the blame game, is there any understanding as to why the refusers behave the way they do? |
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Post by baza on Aug 21, 2023 21:23:52 GMT -5
There's two things in your post that are not helpful in bringing an ILIASM deal to resolution. "Apportioning blame" is one, "why chasing" is the other. As far as you can it is best to not engage in these two things and instead direct your focus on the facts as they stand. It is not a time to make emotional choices. It is rather a time to make pragmatic dispassionate choices based on the facts of your unique situation, and to base such choices on what is in your longer term best interests. If you do that then you can't go too far wrong. Good luck on your journey Brother anotherdavid , this will be one of the toughest things you'll ever do. |
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Post by isthisit on Aug 22, 2023 2:29:27 GMT -5
Hi isthisit Quite correct, I'm a Brit - what gave it away? There's certainly some "tough love" here in terms of the message that nothing is likely to change if I hang around - I'm really trying to stay out of the blame game, is there any understanding as to why the refusers behave the way they do? It crossed my mind you are British from the first few sentences. I think it must be the sentence construction. Then you spelt behaviour with a âuâ and I was sure. So as baza explained trying to understand your W is futile. Itâs very normal, everyone here did it, often for a long time. Because if you can understand it, you can fix it, right? Erm, no. You almost certainly canât. I thought some really harsh thoughts about my ex-H during our marriage, but really, blame is daft too. The brutal truth is he is happy celibate and that is not something he can be blamed for. He isnât a bad person, he canât do much about it (his issue is not physiological, meds wonât help) and he wasnât doing it to upset or hurt me. So nothing to blame him for. It was my choice to burn through decades of my life because I didnât value my happiness enough to factor that into my decisions. Itâs as simple as that. Simple, but fiendishly tricky to grapple with. |
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Post by toughtiger on Aug 22, 2023 18:34:22 GMT -5
I do not resent my spouse any longer ....... i did for a long time but now i see i resent myself for not being much more proactive in either finding a better solution or leaving .... i got complacent and i need to see it will not recover no longer holding on to a life raft in case the titanic resurfaces.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 22, 2023 19:11:32 GMT -5
There's certainly some "tough love" here in terms of the message that nothing is likely to change if I hang around - I'm really trying to stay out of the blame game,... Four ILIASM member informed their refusing spouses that they were going to find lovers outside the marriage. Three spouses welcomed their former refusers back to a proper marital bed. The fourth stayed with her husband, treated him well, and has zesty trysts with her lovers, with his awareness. So, things can change if you stay. Problem is, it can also change in the form of being served papers if the refuser wants you to be be celibate more than they want to be married. Refusers will accuse you of throwing away a marriage for sex. It is just as easy to explain they are throwing the marriage away because they insist you live as a child does. I have the strongest suspicion some refusers want divorces, but do not want to be the ones to file papers. They want the refused to get fed up and do it. An affair is a deep sign of betrayal they can hold their head up high with. Their refused spouse did a great wrong and therefore, caused the divorce. Telling the refuser in advance of your intent places the blame where it squarely belongs. The celibacy they are demanding. This is unreasonable behavior in most anyone's eyes and that is not the look they were going for. Avoid blame if you like, that doesn't mean it isn't what motivates the refuser. Refusers can stay married, all they have to do is tolerate your ordinary, adult human drives. They've chosen to make it none of their business. They just have to stop concerning themselves if someone else makes it theirs. EDIT: The fourth relapsed after six months. So, 75% success rate. (100% female refused, 50% male) Can update again if reset is restored. |
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Post by toughtiger on Aug 23, 2023 15:42:33 GMT -5
Reading these forums have been helpful
not in only seeing others like me and what they did.... but in showing me things to consider even if they are painful.
Maybe my spouse does want a divorce but wants me to be the one to leave and file..... I have no idea why it will not make him look sympathetic to our grown children. I was upset by all his i love you and find you sexy but it does not work right so why bother attitude.
now i am questioning what about me he finds repulsive. I am seriously confused how a person whom was very sexual when younger has zero even thought about it
i have been wanting to ask him about self relief as in reading i found chemicals released in orgasm are good for heart health and i am a little curious the only possible time may be when he showers. I know it is weird but i want to know
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Post by aquacat on Sept 4, 2023 20:13:55 GMT -5
We went through a group marriage counseling program at church earlier this year and I forgave her for causing my resentment and she promised to work on intimacy. Months later that resentment has come back full force and her promise to work on intimacy has yet to materialize. Also what got to me with that program was hearing other guys say how much their wives initiated and how much they received oral from their wives. It really irritated me hearing from other guys the things my wife refuses to do.
For instance last week I made the same mistake I always do over and over by initiating sex, because she wonât ever try initiating, and Iâve given her plenty of chances to do so. I tried telling her last week that the same missionary/starfish position just doesnât do it for me anymore and I wanted to try something different, like from behind or her on top. She said no to both saying both hurt her physically. Another day I had to pretty much beg to do oral sex on her which she did have an orgasm, but I know she just doesnât like oral sex either way. I just couldnât help it because I like it so much, as with giving I like seeing the pleasure she gets. I just hate the resentment for the lack of intimacy.
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Post by baza on Sept 4, 2023 23:32:35 GMT -5
Resentment abounds in ILIASM deals, and it's not just you Brother aquacat . You may be resentful about her unwillingness to engage you sexually - and she may be just as resentful of your unwanted incessant aproaches for sexual engagement. The joint resentment levels end up driving the deal into the ditch. |
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