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Post by blujay on Jan 2, 2023 0:45:26 GMT -5
I am a 51 yo woman in a sexless marriage. It happened about 18 months after marriage. My husband says he can't have erections anymore and it's because he has zero T (he had low T before marriage but we had sex just fine) and diabetes. But doesn't seem to address his health issues. I also tried to suggest having non penetrative sex, or even just cuddling but although he said yes and we would schedule time together, he would lay there completely dead. Like if you lifted his arm, it will fall back on the bed. He would just be in the starfish position. It was clearly bullshit and he just didn't want to do anything, but wouldn't say so, he would pretend he will go with it for my benefit. So I just quit asking for anything. I'm done. I let him know that if he ever wants sex again, to let me know, but I won't ever initiate again.
The red flag was that he said that HE was in a sexless marriage in the first marriage and that it was his wife's fault, she didn't want it. He said they slept in separate bedrooms and she accused him of being cold. Guess what? We now sleep in separate bedrooms and I do belive he is cold. RIP sex and romantic life, no hope is left. It seems that now our marriage is like his first marriage. My first marriage was very far from sexless. It was basically sustained by sex only.
I've thought this through in and out and I just don't have the energy to blow up my life once again. We have a very comfortable life and get along just fine. He is retiring and depends on my health insurance. If I left him, it would devastate him, badly. My son (only mine, he doesn't have biological children) has 2 years until he graduates college and I will stay the course to make sure I can help financially until I see him all set on a career path. I don't want to lose my status. I don't want to be poorer, although I do make a good income. I don't want to look for the third husband or to endlessly date. None of it sounds good. I just like my life, my house, I have a ton of friends, a great career...I'm just too damn comfortable.
This past month I've given cheating a serious thought and I thought I'll do it, but after doing a lot of research, which I mentioned in response to someone asking about FWB on this forum, I realized it is not for me. It's just crazy difficult, and not just the not being found out part, and I'm not smart or emotionally strong enough to do it.
One nice thing that happened was that in 2021 I've been abroad for work for 2 weeks and I met a man there. He asked me to dinner, sometimes both lunch and dinnner, and walks every single day and we spent hours together daily, bantering and having fun. I surely felt he was hitting on me and we were flirting, but nothing happened, I didn't take the hint. He was also married and complained nonstop about his wife. I stayed neutral. It was nice though, the whole thing made me feel good. My husband was worried and made me come home 2 days earlier.
That is, in short my story. I am staying because I'm comfortable, and I do love and care for my husband, but I am still hoping to somehow have intimacy before I die.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 2, 2023 12:20:01 GMT -5
I'm curious about how your husband "made" you return home earlier than you had planned. Did he really "make" you come home (which could indicate he is very controlling) or did you voluntarily come home because you didn't want to be tempted to have an affair?
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 2, 2023 12:34:54 GMT -5
I'm slow. 37 years slow.
The lesson I learned only very recently is that refusals by a spouse must come with consequences. You don't want sex with me? OK. I'll be civil, but don't expect me to show any more consideration to you than a stranger I just met. I won't listen to your problems, I won't go out of my way to do anything for you. I will sleep in another room and spend as little time with you as possible. You get no kiss goodbye, no hug, and no time.
The goal of this tactic for me was two-fold: I'm not investing emotional capital into a relationship without intimacy, and I wanted to prompt a conversation. (It did).
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Post by blujay on Jan 2, 2023 13:58:06 GMT -5
I'm curious about how your husband "made" you return home earlier than you had planned. Did he really "make" you come home (which could indicate he is very controlling) or did you voluntarily come home because you didn't want to be tempted to have an affair? I wrote a longer and more detailed post but when I hit sent, the site stopped working and I lost it. Trying a shorter one here. My husband is not usually controlling. This is a big part of why we get along. He really does let me do whatever I want. I go out a lot, I spend pretty much what I want... We do have the means so I'm not getting us in any debt or anything. I like that he's not nagging me to death. But on the trip, he knew something was up with me and the man (call him D), and he asked me that if my professional duties end on Friday, why did the foundation sponsoring this trip bought me a ticket for Monday and he asked me to come home, actually frantically insisted. It was because I told him every time I was going out with D and I was staying for hours. I didn't realize at first that I was doing anything wrong and it didn't cross my mind to hide what i was doing. I bet he was also tracking me with Findmyfriends, we have that on our phones, and he realized how long I was having lunches and dinners and walks with D. I think he was worried I'd cheat over the weekend. He knows I'm not getting anything at hone, he's not stupid. He didn't say "I'm worried you'll cheat". It's not his style. He is usually passive aggressive, not direct. He was frantic though that time. Looking back, it makes me chuckle a bit, but at that time, I was feeling guilty so I caved. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 2, 2023 15:41:33 GMT -5
blunder8 said: "I'm slow. 37 years slow.
The lesson I learned only very recently is that refusals by a spouse must come with consequences. You don't want sex with me? OK. I'll be civil, but don't expect me to show any more consideration to you than a stranger I just met. I won't listen to your problems, I won't go out of my way to do anything for you. I will sleep in another room and spend as little time with you as possible. You get no kiss goodbye, no hug, and no time.
The goal of this tactic for me was two-fold: I'm not investing emotional capital into a relationship without intimacy, and I wanted to prompt a conversation. (It did)."
I'm glad that worked for you. I'm just letting others know your mileage may vary. I did those things for several years in my marriage which then had lasted 30 years. My refuser just ignored them. Finally, I gave him the choice of counseling or divorce and he chose divorce, which we amicably did. It ended up that he had been slow quitting the marriage hoping I'd take the hint.
I'm not telling anyone to divorce. I am just saying that you may withdraw other types of intimacy and your spouse may not respond the way blunder8's did. Even if you have no interest in divorce, all marriages end through death or divorce so it would be wise to find out how things would shake out for you if your spouse dies or your marriage does end in divorce.
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Post by blujay on Jan 2, 2023 16:00:46 GMT -5
"I'm glad that worked for you. I'm just letting others know your mileage may vary. I did those things for several years in my marriage which then had lasted 30 years. My refuser just ignored them. Finally, I gave him the choice of counseling or divorce and he chose divorce, which we amicably did. It ended up that he had been slow quitting the marriage hoping I'd take the hint. I'm not telling anyone to divorce. I am just saying that you may withdraw other types of intimacy and your spouse may not respond the way blunder8's did. Even if you have no interest in divorce, all marriages end through death or divorce so it would be wise to find out how things would shake out for you if your spouse dies or your marriage does end in divorce." I would agree that the tactic of withdrawing attention and other affection may not work on everyone. I venture to say it may not work as well when the man is the refuser. My huband already doesn't give me any hugs, and kisses etc. And I already moved into a different bedroom. I sleep so much better now! But he does want attention in the form of spending time with me. I do withdraw some of that, but not as a tactic, but because I'm busy getting my emotional needs met elsewhere, with friends, my kid and activities I enjoy. I do try to spend time with him too, but I know he'd like more. I'm almost his only social connection. He does have a couple of friends but they meet once every 2-3 months, while I meet friends more once or twice a week, I'm part of a book club etc. As far as if we divorce, things would be fine for me, financially. I won't do as well as now, but we've been married for only 5 years and I had my own house and career before that. Just that two incomes makes us upper middle class, while one income it's just OK. No extrvagant vacations and such, but the basics would be met. I plan to wait a couple more years until my kid is out completely (he goes to college in town) and then see if I can drag him to counseling and start discussing the affection part. Oh well. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 2, 2023 16:14:33 GMT -5
bluejay: "As far as if we divorce, things would be fine for me, financially. I won't do as well as now, but we've been married for only 5 years and I had my own house and career before that. Just that two incomes makes us upper middle class, while one income it's just OK. No extravagant vacations and such, but the basics would be met. "
It still may be helpful to talk to a lawyer as in some states, once you've been married for 10 years, all assets (except inheritances) and debts become 50:50 community property. Also, given your husband's diabetes, it might be helpful to find out if his health declines and he can't work while you can, if you divorced, you'd have to pay alimony. I'm also wondering if -- considering his health-- you need to have long-term disability care just in case he eventually would need that. At least in the US, medical expenses cause many people to go bankrupt.
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Post by blujay on Jan 2, 2023 18:19:46 GMT -5
bluejay: "As far as if we divorce, things would be fine for me, financially. I won't do as well as now, but we've been married for only 5 years and I had my own house and career before that. Just that two incomes makes us upper middle class, while one income it's just OK. No extravagant vacations and such, but the basics would be met. " It still may be helpful to talk to a lawyer as in some states, once you've been married for 10 years, all assets (except inheritances) and debts become 50:50 community property. Also, given your husband's diabetes, it might be helpful to find out if his health declines and he can't work while you can, if you divorced, you'd have to pay alimony. I'm also wondering if -- considering his health-- you need to have long-term disability care just in case he eventually would need that. At least in the US, medical expenses cause many people to go bankrupt. All good points, thank you! He made a lot more money than I do, but he's retiring in a month. We are in the process of purchasing long term care insurance, just met with some guy in December and we will pick up with the underwriting in a week or so. Good point that I will likley work a lot longer. He's 58 and I'm 51 and I don't plan to retire before maybe 65 or 67. I'm a college professor and as long as I'm healthy, I may be able to work. They also offer a part time optin for 5 years before you retire. I did meet with a lawyer when I divorced my first husband, in 2009. I could have a meeting now too to present the current situation. My ex husband was making a lot less than me and I was worried about alimony and him being able to claim half of my 401K and home equity. The lawyer said our state does not have alimony. My ex did not claim anything either and in exchange I waived child support. The judge agreed, which was a bit suprising, as I was reading online that judges rarely agree on waiving child support. But I think the judge agreed to what we both said in our request, i.e. that alone I had the means to raise the kid, who was 6 yo at the time. We didn't even have lawyers. I'm sure if I divorced my current husband, he'd fight me a lot more. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 2, 2023 18:36:48 GMT -5
blujay: " He's 58 and I'm 51 and I don't plan to retire before maybe 65 or 67. "
Why is he retiring so early? Does he have plans for what he will do in retirement?
I'm 71 and over the past several years have watched a married male friend, who retired at 65, decline over about 5 years to the point of becoming bedridden and now being in hospice because he didn't take care of his health (before retirement, and even less after retirement) and -- unlike his wife -- had no hobbies and few close relationships other than with her. Since your husband has known T problems that he won't address and also has diabetes, I'm wondering how when he lacks the structure of working-- he will take care of his own health .
Your plan for long-term care insurance sounds good, but also talk to a financial advisor to make sure all bases are covered. I don't know why the man I know and his wife have stayed together though I suspect she didn't want to get a second divorce. However, I did notice that as he became increasingly dependent, homebound (at first out of choice), and then started suffering memory loss (perhaps because he literally did nothing except hug his dog and watch TV), she spent more time being far away. For instance, a couple of weeks before he went into hospice, she took a month long trip to Europe even though she knew he had cancer. Keep in mind that what may be a stable situation right now will change, especially as both of you age. Make sure you really understand what you're signing up for.
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Post by blunder8 on Jan 2, 2023 19:44:57 GMT -5
blunder8 said: "I'm slow. 37 years slow. The lesson I learned only very recently is that refusals by a spouse must come with consequences. You don't want sex with me? OK. I'll be civil, but don't expect me to show any more consideration to you than a stranger I just met. I won't listen to your problems, I won't go out of my way to do anything for you. I will sleep in another room and spend as little time with you as possible. You get no kiss goodbye, no hug, and no time. The goal of this tactic for me was two-fold: I'm not investing emotional capital into a relationship without intimacy, and I wanted to prompt a conversation. (It did)." I'm glad that worked for you. I'm just letting others know your mileage may vary. I did those things for several years in my marriage which then had lasted 30 years. My refuser just ignored them. Finally, I gave him the choice of counseling or divorce and he chose divorce, which we amicably did. It ended up that he had been slow quitting the marriage hoping I'd take the hint. I'm not telling anyone to divorce. I am just saying that you may withdraw other types of intimacy and your spouse may not respond the way blunder8's did. Even if you have no interest in divorce, all marriages end through death or divorce so it would be wise to find out how things would shake out for you if your spouse dies or your marriage does end in divorce. Yep. I'm not writing any prescriptions. Just telling my story. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 10, 2023 5:59:18 GMT -5
.... I don't want to look for the third husband or to endlessly date. None of it sounds good.... ...One nice thing that happened was that in 2021 I've been abroad for work for 2 weeks and I met a man there. He asked me to dinner, sometimes both lunch and dinnner, and walks every single day and we spent hours together daily, bantering and having fun. I surely felt he was hitting on me and we were flirting, but nothing happened, I didn't take the hint. ... Agreed about the third husband thing. If it happens, it happens. Just ask northstarmom . As for "endlessly dating", I've felt society should migrate towards what I have called "dessert-first" marriage. " Research I've heard about indicate sexual interest in partners wanes after 3 or 4 years for women, 10 for a man. ...If they date more than one, interest in one may slip away while the new guy stays strong. A chain of smoky love affairs will eclipse the previous one, accidentally producing the lifestyle I've postulated: the dessert-first marriage. Connecting for the 3 or 4 years that most enflame the lady, then they'd part as excellent friends"The insistence on planning to stay with a lover and expecting to try for that outcome strikes me as the key irritant in "endlessly dating". The drunken cocktail of hormones and pheromones of early relationships isn't typically seen as drudgery. Foolish? Immature? Maybe, but typically fun. Especially if you weren't assuming you both wanted "forever" and were hoodwinked. You talk about a refusal to start over. Maybe don't. Just add to what you've got? You know, after the "college plan" commences. In my previous mentions of the DF marriage, I speak of it as fully acceptable if you accidentally go permanent. I don't suggest DF is better. Just less inclined towards regret, disappointment, guilt, and self-loathing. Expectations cause misery, but in the right situation, comfort and security.
You live in a no alimony state, a rarity. For anyone else in this bind, has anyone looked into a post-nup? It'd defuse that ticking clock of the alimony price hikes. Enforcement is dicey, though, I hear. Would divorce and re-marriage with a pre-nup hold up better? Divorce every four years. No one even needs to know. I'm driven by my vows and to promises made to God in front of family and friends. The paperwork at city hall means fuck-all to me. Divorcing repeatedly may be a good way to make sure those pre-nups hold up. If the judge treats your second four years as if it were eight, good to know and you receive clarity that you can't remarry again and that judge has put yet another nail in the coffin that is the (state) institution of marriage, a dubious combinationation of church and state anyway, so maybe it's for the best if it gets undermined this way. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 10, 2023 12:35:31 GMT -5
mirrorchid: "For anyone else in this bind, has anyone looked into a post-nup?
It'd defuse that ticking clock of the alimony price hikes. Enforcement is dicey, though, I hear.
Would divorce and re-marriage with a pre-nup hold up better?"
I know a couple in a happy marriage of more than 40 years who decide every 7 years whether to remain married. The answer always has been "yes." They then say vows and exchange new rings.
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Post by quickbeam on Jan 11, 2023 17:33:01 GMT -5
My husband and I are so entwined financially that I can’t even begin to figure out how to tease the money apart. We both have pensions and a paid off house. If I was to leave, apartment costs are astronomical in my area. It would cripple both of us financially.
I do regularly revisit finding NSA sex outside of marriage. I’m a bisexual woman so the field is open. I dread the thought of dying without having more sex in my life.
I do find it ironic that my husband wants a lot of what he calls intimacy (hugs, touches, holding) which all comes from me….yet there is no sex or openness to my needs.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 11, 2023 17:39:00 GMT -5
quickbeam: "My husband and I are so entwined financially that I can’t even begin to figure out how to tease the money apart. We both have pensions and a paid off house. If I was to leave, apartment costs are astronomical in my area. It would cripple both of us financially."
Talking to a financial planner and a lawyer might let you know where exactly you stand.
Have you considered moving to a cheaper area, even out of the country you're currently in? Splitting the proceeds of a paid off house could allow you to live in luxury abroad. Speaking from experience.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jan 12, 2023 7:30:51 GMT -5
My husband and I are so entwined financially that I can’t even begin to figure out how to tease the money apart. We both have pensions and a paid off house. If I was to leave, apartment costs are astronomical in my area. It would cripple both of us financially. I do regularly revisit finding NSA sex outside of marriage. I’m a bisexual woman so the field is open. I dread the thought of dying without having more sex in my life. I do find it ironic that my husband wants a lot of what he calls intimacy (hugs, touches, holding) which all comes from me….yet there is no sex or openness to my needs. You said in the Welcome category ( iliasm.org/post/145073/thread) that your husband was aghast at the idea of outsourcing. Given your bisexuality, is he even rejecting that part? Men are less commonly threatened by the idea of lesbian lovers. You proffered that and he rejected that too? You said he had Asperger's. They can be more receptive to cerebrally constructing relationship dynamics like an engineering project. Perhaps such a non-threatening outlet of sexuality could be negotiated in the context of a necessary solution to his unilateral celibacy. He's creating a problem, he needs to help solve it. Gestures of affection can be momentarily pleasant, but can elicit yearning/longing/pain. The affection you might gladly show your husband is tainted and spoiled. More enthusiasm for physical affection he likes may be possible, if it doesn't culminate in aching need, a miserable accompaniment to something that is supposed to bring joy. Teasing apart financials is more important when there's enough money to go around. Is there? You say the house is paid for, can you retrofit part of it as an in-law suite? As an aside, you said you read about ILIASM on Washington Post? Do you have a link? I Googled and came up empty. |
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