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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 16, 2021 6:12:02 GMT -5
Apocrypha: "I think people get so focused on their own celibacy that they don't quite grasp that their partner is also celibate. You know just how hard that has been for you. Consider that it's JUST AS HARD for your partner; however, it's a better result for that partner to STILL avoid sex with you, than have it with the willing and eager partner. " This is true only if one's partner is a sexual person and is not having the kind of sex they want. Some people here have partners who are asexual and happy to be in a sexless marriage (though they'd prefer that you, their partner, would not try to get sex from them), are having sex with a partner whom they prefer to their spouse or prefer masturbation to sex with a partner. In Apocrypha's case, Mrs. Apocrypha was rooting other dudes, but still furious when he was up for outsourcing as well. This is why I don't hold the two "suffering" spouses equally. Both are capable of "fixing the problem", but the refuser is demanding control of the refused's sexuality. If an extramarital partner were agreed upon, the refused wouldn't find this forum. There have been times and even today where such marriages are not talked about but commonplace. Refusers want the façade of the traditional marriage more than their partner's sanity. Perhaps some refused partners are demanding both sex and traditional marriage, in which case I can turn the tables and disapprove of the refused wishing to control another's sexuality for the sake of their moral high ground. These pestering, refused partners need to outsource- with or without their partner's consent, or salvage what "moral" stance they can by filing for divorce. That could be seen as an equality of sorts, but only in that the dictatorial behavior control can be on both sides, but generally is only executed by one unfair partner at a time. |
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optima
Junior Member
Posts: 35 
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Post by optima on Sept 16, 2021 9:38:45 GMT -5
[quote author=" mirrororchid" source="/post/139917/thread"Refusers want the façade of the traditional marriage more than their partner's sanity. Perhaps some refused partners are demanding both sex and traditional marriage, in which case I can turn the tables and disapprove of the refused wishing to control another's sexuality for the sake of their moral high ground. These pestering, refused partners need to outsource- with or without their partner's consent, or salvage what "moral" stance they can by filing for divorce. That could be seen as an equality of sorts, but only in that the dictatorial behavior control can be on both sides, but generally is only executed by one unfair partner at a time.[[/quote] Very interesting point. I really want a monogamous married relationship with a spouse who is free to fantasize but does not actually act sexually and emotionally outside the marriage. I did not agree to celibacy or polyamory. It was forced on me. By filling for divorce I’m saying no. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 16, 2021 10:30:57 GMT -5
Apocrypha: "I think people get so focused on their own celibacy that they don't quite grasp that their partner is also celibate. You know just how hard that has been for you. Consider that it's JUST AS HARD for your partner; however, it's a better result for that partner to STILL avoid sex with you, than have it with the willing and eager partner. " This is true only if one's partner is a sexual person and is not having the kind of sex they want. Some people here have partners who are asexual and happy to be in a sexless marriage (though they'd prefer that you, their partner, would not try to get sex from them), are having sex with a partner whom they prefer to their spouse or prefer masturbation to sex with a partner. In my situation, my spouse was having an affair. Indeed, it's now 8 years after our divorce and he just married a woman who is very different from me. I have no idea about their sex life, but since they speak different languages, I know that she doesn't irritate him with the kinds of intimate conversations I liked to try to have with him, conversations that made him get a deer in the headlights look. He was great about talking about sports minutia but could not talk about love of any kind. Meanwhile, I'm continuing to be very happy with a partner who is very different from my ex in that my partner is sexually and emotionally intimate with me and is comfortable talking about intimate subjects. Yes, in my situation, my spouse was celibate for a long time (with me) and then embarked on an affair. As the mushroom cloud of that affair was still expanding, she pointed out that SHE had been celibate too, for all those years, and was also frustrated. I didn't "get" what she meant when she told me. I'm not even sure SHE understood - it's one of those things that comes out in and angry fight. But the implications were plainly evident when we matched on a dating site AFTER we separated. It wasn't that SHE was aesexual. She's very sexual. It's that she did not regard me as a sexual partner, or that the condition of being married or attached - was not a condition under which she wanted to have sex. Aesexuality is very rare. Trauma-induced complications or odd peccadilloes are more common. But the most common result - post marriage - and we see this ALL the time - is that it nearly always has an extended period of sexual complication that coincides with not wanting to be part of the relationship, and that when that relationship ends (or within it, in your case and mine) both sides of it will embark on another relationship. That relationship will include a sexual component, and it may not be a timid sexuality whatsoever. When I was still committed to my marriage, I framed the problem as I would a medical issue that had affected both of us. I thought that kind of approach would work, starting from a position with both of us on the same side, approaching a problem together - her sexual complication. But, it really wasn't all that complicated in the end. The problem wasn't her and her sexuality. The problem (for our marriage, and for me) was the issue of how she felt about me as a person, and about her marriage to me. She gave it a good college try, but when she signed on for marriage, she really wasn't all aboard. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 16, 2021 11:12:47 GMT -5
Apocrypha: "I think people get so focused on their own celibacy that they don't quite grasp that their partner is also celibate. You know just how hard that has been for you. Consider that it's JUST AS HARD for your partner; however, it's a better result for that partner to STILL avoid sex with you, than have it with the willing and eager partner. " This is true only if one's partner is a sexual person and is not having the kind of sex they want. Some people here have partners who are asexual and happy to be in a sexless marriage (though they'd prefer that you, their partner, would not try to get sex from them), are having sex with a partner whom they prefer to their spouse or prefer masturbation to sex with a partner. In Apocrypha's case, Mrs. Apocrypha was rooting other dudes, but still furious when he was up for outsourcing as well. When faced with someone espousing two incompatible, opposing points of view simultaneously, you can sometimes infer the actual intent from the result. Mrs Apocrypha pitched the open part of our marriage (post affair) and continued to push for it - despite her obvious lack of support and respect for the simplest of rules or courtesies. It resulted in the least possible enjoyment and the maximum amount of harm to both of us. It also resulted in her using this as a pretext to attack me repeatedly and to, in her words, "remove my halo and her shame", and create a constant intolerable conflict in our marriage. I submit that this was the original intent on her side. The open marriage (as with therapy) - simply became another battlefield or display area for her real design - which was to express that she did not want to be married to me. Everything she did was posed as help but was executed so as to deliver us toward an intolerable conflict. I don't think she wanted to "control me". She could only do that with my agreement - by holding the marriage hostage. If she didn't value the marriage and wanted out - then she was always going to find a way to shoot the hostage. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 16, 2021 11:35:47 GMT -5
In Apocrypha's case, Mrs. Apocrypha was rooting other dudes, but still furious when he was up for outsourcing as well. When faced with someone espousing two incompatible, opposing points of view simultaneously, you can sometimes infer the actual intent from the result. I don't think she wanted to "control me". She could only do that with my agreement - by holding the marriage hostage. If she didn't value the marriage and wanted out - then she was always going to find a way to shoot the hostage. This is relatable to my former marriage. I don't think my now X wanted a divorce. She liked the obvious benefits and perks that came with our union. What she didn't like was having to placate my seemingly insatiable lust or having to deal with my hard penis pointing at her on a daily basis. It's true we were both in a SM but i submit it played on me to a far greater extent than on her. And since she made little real effort to save the marriage in the end I have to wonder how much she really valued it, or if it was just the benefits that kept her in the union. When the benefits stared going away she didn't stay around much longer. And you are right about the control. When I began distancing myself from her she knew she could no longer control me, so the reset mindset went away as well. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 16, 2021 13:13:02 GMT -5
I actually put myself out there again last night, at bedtime and asked for a cuddle. He tried to say he was " too hot" so I said get rid of the extra blanket and it wouldn't kill him to throw an arm around me. Told him I needed it. He did that for me. I, at that point, did an internal systems check to see how it felt. It didn't feel forced or smothering, but it didn't feel nice and cuddly. Maybe because I knew I had to ask for it. Imagine how good it would feel coming from someone who loves you as a husband would, or from someone who you don't know as well, but who at least desires you? Asking a token of affection from someone who doesn't actually feel it for you is like drinking seawater on a life raft. It's a liquid and there's water in it. The action looks and feels like drinking, but you'll still die of thirst. Once I realized the likelihood of living a single life, I also did this. I looked to what the successful women did in my circles when they got divorced and did that. I made an effort to make male friends and support, devoted time to visit, socialize and do activities with them. I tried a bunch of hobbies and interests - including things I'd never normally do. I embarked on a fitness program and bought clothes. I put in a lot more work on myself and less on "us" and tried to become an interesting person again. The upshot was that if I succeeded, I could possibly also be more interesting to my wife. But I didn't make anything depend on that. Takes me back to what I said before though - is what you have "a marriage"? What are the component parts of a marriage vs let's say, an amicable divorce or a green card marriage of convenience? You live together. You have a relationship. But what is that relationship? What specifically are you committed to? Does it exist for you to be committed to it? Priests and nuns take an informed, solemn vow of celibacy - was that part of your commitment? What do you think would happen to your "marriage" (more specifically - your relationship such as it is) if you dropped your end of the rope? Would anyone pick it up? If not, where is the other person in your marriage? You cannot be in the marriage alone. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 16, 2021 13:19:34 GMT -5
This is relatable to my former marriage. I don't think my now X wanted a divorce. She liked the obvious benefits and perks that come with our union. And this should be something easy to empathize with for everyone in this group. ALL of us here have found ourselves in a situation in which we were unhappy and not in what we'd call a marriage - but that we wanted to avoid a divorce. Both sides of that equation value the benefits associated with marriage-, and wish to avoid the difficulties of recognizing the end of the marriage, and are reluctant to call time. So one side defers, puts off, gaslights, spins out, drags on - enduring - so that you can both say that you are working on it. Also, the other side defers, puts off, gaslights, spins out, drags on - enduring - so that you both can say that you are working on it. |
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 88 
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 24, 2021 16:10:21 GMT -5
Hey...quick update. Unusually busy week or so. New job offer and interview. Things are still weird. We get along alright but I am just not understanding the no love part. My feelings/emotions are all over the place. One minute I feel like I could adjust or that things will improve in that department and the next I am fantasizing about what life would look like in a different situation.
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 88
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Sept 24, 2021 17:14:02 GMT -5
Oh my gosh, THANK YOU padgemi, just what I needed to hear today. Thank you. thank you, thank you!  |
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Post by worksforme2 on Oct 16, 2021 14:35:04 GMT -5
This post seemingly came to an abrupt halt with no discernable direction going forward, other than lanie intending to stay for the time being. Is lanie doing any work on herself or is she simply adrift at the mercy of the tides? Perhaps she has thrown herself into the new job to the extent her SM has taken a decidedly less important role in her life now.
It's often the case her someone posts a flurry of replies or pieces of information. And as the story starts to flush out the poster suddenly disappears, ghosting the forum. I haven't seen lanie listed in the members online in the last 24 hrs. since this last post. I wonder what her situation is now?
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Post by baza on Oct 16, 2021 22:11:58 GMT -5
There are sooo many past members who's contribution(s) just stopped, leaving the story 'up in the air'.
Seems to come with the territory though.
Of every ten (10) members who join in a given month and contribute at least one (1) post, eight (8) of them are never heard of or from again.
Of the two (2) who do hang around for a while, one (1) drops off after a month or two.
The remaining one (1) sometimes hangs around and we sometimes see how their situation plays out.
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 88
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Oct 18, 2021 14:13:50 GMT -5
Well….I’m still here , although my recent foray back into the work a day world , along with a total routine change due to working midnights caused me to not log on so frequently. I’m working and focusing on me and the marriage seems a bit more stable , perhaps as a result of that.
I’m still not happy with the still plattonic nature of our relationship but it is what it is right now.
Thinking about implementing some date nights once I get more settled in to my new schedule.
It feels good to be back out there, and interacting with more people.
I have another business and we had a girls outing yesterday. We went to a cider mill and enjoyed a fantastically sunny, albeit a bit windy fall day.
No real drama , other than the good kind, where we went to welcome a brand new grandchild for the first time.
Life goes on…
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DrNo
Junior Member
Posts: 52
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by DrNo on Oct 18, 2021 22:51:31 GMT -5
Sounds to me, and don’t take this the wrong way, but you are kicking the can down the road.
Life stable. Your sex life is not at all.
You need to smarten up, confront him or move on to somebody that will give you what you wish for, passion.
To me he has lost sexual desire. At nearly 70 that’s quite common.
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lanie
Junior Member
Posts: 88
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by lanie on Oct 19, 2021 7:48:37 GMT -5
I still love the man. If his decreased libido is a natural part of the aging process, it doesn’t diminish my love for him, and the fact that I still enjoy much of our cameraderie.
I did agree to marry him after all, and in my deepest moral compass, marriage is forever. Just because the sex isn’t what it once was might not warrant throwing everything we had together away. It’s certainly not a decision to be taken lightly.
I appreciate the additional input, Dr.No .
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 19, 2021 9:11:00 GMT -5
Lanie— my 69 y o post sm lover loves me snd and loves sex. So he takes t shots and uses cialis so we both have a satisfying sex life. I can understand a man’s not doing this if he has a medical condition that wouldn’t allow him to use such treatments. Otherwise I’d view it as a lack of love for him to think it’s ok to ignore my sexual needs. I would not love such a selfish man.
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