onempty
Junior Member
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Posts: 66
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by onempty on Aug 7, 2021 20:25:59 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
I'v been lurking for awhile so I thought I'd tell my story which is like most the rest.
I've been married for almost 23 years. She is ten years my junior. Sex at first was good. After marriage it dropped in frequency unless she was ovulating when she was in baby mode. We had 3 kids all within 2 years of each other and then the sex really dropped off. It was a problem for years but I didn't really complain too much about it.
After 12 years of marriage with an already poor sex life, my wife became suddenly ill and was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. She couldn't work or do much of anything and she became depressed. The next several years were extremely difficult. She gained a ton of weight, and even though she would do literally nothing she still found time to spend money like crazy. She'd gamble and lie to me about it. We never had sex and I didn't even care anymore. To make matters worse, her mom moved in with us after falling on hard times. I really didn't think life could get worse. I started dreaming of divorce but the kids and leaving her almost helpless was something I couldn't do.
Her mom finally moved out but things weren't much better. She started talking to a guy she knew in school. She didn't hide it completely but I suspected she was having an emotional affair. After that guys wife tracked me down to ask me what was going on I finally had enough and told her our marriage was over. A lot of tears and we started talking, and talking, and talking and we decided to hit the "reset" button. The first real talk without yelling and being defensive and like a light switch things changed.
Sex was still only "okay" but everything else was better. She found meds that helped her and she began to feel better. She had bariatric surgery and she lost a ton of weight. She was feeling so much better about herself and things were never better. We took a trip and had sex several times a day the entire week. Everything was so good and I thought how great life was. We talked about how things were better now that we were intimate all the time but had sex was about once a week.
But gradually the sex became less frequent, about once a month now. It got to the point we only had sex if we were on vacation or in a hotel for the weekend. She began to become less and less intimate to the point she barely touches me. She never really did initiate but now she is in full avoidance of sex or any touching. I've tried talking about it but she is in complete denial there is a problem. This had dragged on about two years now and we've been fighting about it often. I told her flat out I need to be touched sometimes and she apologizes for "not meeting (my) needs". Says she loves me and doesn't know what she'd do without me but the night rolls around and she immediately rolls away from me. I don't understand why she won't even make an effort for any intimacy when we talk about it all the time. We've discussed seeing a counselor but she's afraid it will make things worse and that I'll bring up all the sins of her past. Something about her has changed besides the sex issue. She doesn't talk to me like she use to. She doesn't text me like she use to. She use to get very mushy when we were apart telling me how much she missed me, etc but she never does that anymore. I just got back from a five day trip to see my sister and she hasn't even kissed me.
It almost seems she is getting ready to leave me. I havent asked her this but I've asked her why doesn't she seem happy? What can I do to make you happy? Aren't you attracted to me anymore? She always insists nothing is wrong and she is still attracted to me. I just don't get it. She won't touch me, acts like she doesn't even like me, but won't say anything?
My wife is beautiful. I love her more now than ever. It hurts to think she doesn't feel the same. It suddenly occurred to me today that I think my wife has outgrown me. We marred when she was 21 and me 31. She needed me then to take care of her and I did. Then she got sick and she needed me and I was there. I think she has reached a point where she doesn't need me anymore and it makes me sad. I felt like crying today but I don't cry.
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Post by Handy on Aug 7, 2021 21:51:12 GMT -5
On empty, I am happy that you posted your situation. Many of your comments are common. I did notice you said maybe your w doesn't love you. To that I can suggest that she still does, not in the past romantic way but more like a brother or a good friend. The non-romantic, friendly love seems to be a common issue.
Did your W outgrow you? I doubt it but people do change so maybe her needs are different now than when after the marriage. That is also common.
Stick around, maybe someone else will have something that helps more than I did.
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Post by baza on Aug 8, 2021 0:32:55 GMT -5
Welcome to the zoo Brother onempty . Suggestion - Any married person needs to know how things would shake out should they suddenly find themselves not married any more. The reasoning behind this is that ALL marriages end, death or divorce see to that fact. So it would be smart to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce or spouses' deceasment would shake out for you. This is basic common sense for ANY married person, as life can turn on a dime. In your posting, there is an undercurrent that your missus might possibly be considering unloading you. That could happen at a highly inconvenient time for you, and believe me, you do NOT want that scenario dumped on you leaving you in a mad scramble for information whilst under great emotional stress. Get pro-active is my suggestion. See a lawyer so you know what the facts are. That commits you to exactly nothing, it is just you gathering information for a scenario common to any married person .... the end of the marriage. |
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Post by isthisit on Aug 8, 2021 2:37:00 GMT -5
Firstly, thanks for posting. Although I am sorry you find yourself here.
From your description you have demonstrated patience, loyalty and empathy within your marriage and this says much that is good about you. When it’s hard please try to remember that. If your wife does not love you more for your contributions to the marriage, well that says something about her too.
Unfortunately it isn’t possible to make people feel something for you that they do not. Baza’s advice is sound. Finding out how your future could shape up commits you to nothing but may put your mind at ease.
Please take care of yourself where you can, do you have anyone to support you? It helps a lot.
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onempty
Junior Member
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Posts: 66
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by onempty on Aug 8, 2021 3:53:43 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for the replies. I don’t have anyone to talk to about this.
I’ve read many threads on this forum and I’ve considered seeing a lawyer to see how things would shake out but being married for 23 years to a disabled person I’m sure it would not end well for me. Plus I’m afraid if she somehow found out it would have devastating consequences. I don’t want to stay in the marriage for only financial reasons. If I had to live in a shack I could. I just want my marriage back to “normal”. But I’ve read enough stories on here it sounds like it will never change.
I’ve been trying to take care of myself. I joined a gym and started eating better. Down 10 lbs so far!
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Post by jim44444 on Aug 8, 2021 19:30:28 GMT -5
... I’ve considered seeing a lawyer to see how things would shake out but being married for 23 years to a disabled person I’m sure it would not end well for me. Plus I’m afraid if she somehow found out it would have devastating consequences. You will never know how a divorce will shake out until you talk to a lawyer. You could also prepare/update other legal forms (will, power of attorney, health care directive, etc.) as a cover. You should have these things in place now. Estate planning is not just for the rich. Yes it would be a lie by omission but you need the advise and facts without starting an argument. |
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Post by jerri on Aug 9, 2021 1:53:55 GMT -5
Maybe you outgrew her because she's not the one participating. I personally think a lot of marriages go off track and I believe that they can get on track with dual effort. Actually means trying and that can be hard for a depressive personality. It's not impossible and in my case it was worth the effort we put into it. At first, he didn't put any effort into it and in fact he was very angry at me for stepping out of the marriage for sex. But little by little I just kept on doing nice things for him and planning things together. Basic human behavior is to mirror others Behavior. My husband can be selfish in ways and very giving in other ways.I think my husband would have moved further and further apart if I had not reached out to him.And we were at a very low point in our marriage so sometimes it was really hard to even want to try. it was all so much harder because he did not want to go to therapy with me so it was kind of a triangulation assignment. And I also depended on several books until I found the one that worked.
In all of those years I thought my husband should know would I like. .I found myself planning all of the activities and the therapist told me to ask for what I needed and I wasn't getting sex so I knew that was out. I just started getting intimacy little by little. and understand that I am the one who usually reaches out to him but the key is he will respond to me. But I am the one reaching out for a hug, a kiss,and just pillow talking at night.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 9, 2021 6:31:57 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for the replies. I don’t have anyone to talk to about this. I’ve read many threads on this forum and I’ve considered seeing a lawyer to see how things would shake out but being married for 23 years to a disabled person I’m sure it would not end well for me. Plus I’m afraid if she somehow found out it would have devastating consequences. I don’t want to stay in the marriage for only financial reasons. If I had to live in a shack I could. I just want my marriage back to “normal”. But I’ve read enough stories on here it sounds like it will never change. I’ve been trying to take care of myself. I joined a gym and started eating better. Down 10 lbs so far! ILIASM member Handy told me about the "Dad Starting Over" podcast. dadstartingover.com/podcasts/Lots of stories there of guys following this book's advice about focusing on yourself outside of your marriage. Physical health is a common one. The pattern seems to be, setting the marriage aside some of the time and focusing on building interests of your own, a network of friends, and your physical health (maybe even to the point of looking physically more attractive) produces attraction in our spouse. Some of it is we become more interesting. Some of it is we look better. Some of it is absence making the heart grow fonder. Some of it is a demolition of co-dependency where the reliance of the spouse on the provider is lessened and feelings of guilt and inadequacy are less constant. Maybe you'll want to give a listen. |
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Post by jerri on Aug 9, 2021 21:11:37 GMT -5
mirrororchid can you point him to the writing of your wife's depression so he can read all the good gems!! I did like Michelle W. Davis's book Divorce Busters" It had a step by step approach with threat of divorce being a last resort. She didn't just jump to divorce like some advise. It's a good place to start. My therapist had me check to see if my H was cheating after asking me what I would do if I found he was cheating. Not to be confused with people who have the right to step out of the marriage for sex.
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onempty
Junior Member
I'm almost free...
Posts: 66
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by onempty on Aug 12, 2021 6:00:46 GMT -5
Maybe you outgrew her because she's not the one participating. I personally think a lot of marriages go off track and I believe that they can get on track with dual effort. Actually means trying and that can be hard for a depressive personality. It's not impossible and in my case it was worth the effort we put into it. At first, he didn't put any effort into it and in fact he was very angry at me for stepping out of the marriage for sex. But little by little I just kept on doing nice things for him and planning things together. Basic human behavior is to mirror others Behavior. My husband can be selfish in ways and very giving in other ways.I think my husband would have moved further and further apart if I had not reached out to him.And we were at a very low point in our marriage so sometimes it was really hard to even want to try. it was all so much harder because he did not want to go to therapy with me so it was kind of a triangulation assignment. And I also depended on several books until I found the one that worked. In all of those years I thought my husband should know would I like. .I found myself planning all of the activities and the therapist told me to ask for what I needed and I wasn't getting sex so I knew that was out. I just started getting intimacy little by little. and understand that I am the one who usually reaches out to him but the key is he will respond to me. But I am the one reaching out for a hug, a kiss,and just pillow talking at night. My situation sounds similar to yours. I have tried doing nice things for quite awhile. Sometimes I do too much and I think maybe she thinks I’m a pushover. She has been making a little effort to return intimacy when I initiate it but it always starts with me. I’ve only tried to initiate sex once lately and got rejected because she didn’t feel comfortable with our 19 yr old on the house which was ridiculous because it was at night and she was in her room in the basement. Unwritten rules is no waking her up for sex, no morning sex, and only at night and in our bedroom. Of course I was pissed when rejected but tried to not make too big a deal about it. We agreed to therapy and are currently looking for a therapist which isn’t as easy to find where I live as I expected. What I just don’t get is if my wife would just have sex with me once in awhile and maybe give put her arm around me we would be in a great marriage. How $&@ hard is that? Last time we sex, about a month ago it was one of the better sessions we’ve had in awhile. I don’t get it. |
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onempty
Junior Member
I'm almost free...
Posts: 66
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by onempty on Aug 12, 2021 8:44:59 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for the replies. I don’t have anyone to talk to about this. I’ve read many threads on this forum and I’ve considered seeing a lawyer to see how things would shake out but being married for 23 years to a disabled person I’m sure it would not end well for me. Plus I’m afraid if she somehow found out it would have devastating consequences. I don’t want to stay in the marriage for only financial reasons. If I had to live in a shack I could. I just want my marriage back to “normal”. But I’ve read enough stories on here it sounds like it will never change. I’ve been trying to take care of myself. I joined a gym and started eating better. Down 10 lbs so far! ILIASM member Handy told me about the "Dad Starting Over" podcast. dadstartingover.com/podcasts/Lots of stories there of guys following this book's advice about focusing on yourself outside of your marriage. Physical health is a common one. The pattern seems to be, setting the marriage aside some of the time and focusing on building interests of your own, a network of friends, and your physical health (maybe even to the point of looking physically more attractive) produces attraction in our spouse. Some of it is we become more interesting. Some of it is we look better. Some of it is absence making the heart grow fonder. Some of it is a demolition of co-dependency where the reliance of the spouse on the provider is lessened and feelings of guilt and inadequacy are less constant. Maybe you'll want to give a listen. Going to check out that podcast! Thx! |
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Post by jerri on Aug 16, 2021 1:36:22 GMT -5
I really think starting in here or with a qualified sex therapist early as possible gives one such a better chance. By the time I found what I needed to turn it around I had already made sex grave mistakes like asking too often at first and going far too long without sex because I was so tired of being rejected.
She is giving you excuses that can be fixed but once she gives you excuses that have a remedy, watch out, she will give you an excuse, like you don't stimulate me or something similar to get you to back off. Those simple excuses just blow up into personal attacks that we don't even want to fix sooner or later. (I would give up then touch base much later (late-stage)
Those underwritten rules that you wrote about are barriers that we can see through and can workaround =just made me angrier. And what happens when you come up with solutions? NEW RULES! That's why we feel so ripped off only months in. But the anger we suppress can eat us up and we can explode, or suppress it and feel helpless, and when I felt helpless, unloved, depression set in. No wonder people throw themselves at work to forget!
I found myself in this video...You describe so much that is in this video. Would it help to record how you both react to this for the therapist? Or just play it in your wife's presence. I should have written a list of issues I wanted to discuss with my H. My H thought it was absurd that I need to make love to feel loved.
Another thing you wrote about if I recall was her affinity for sex, this tripped me up!!! My husband would get aroused, with a heavy breathing, heartbeat, and when he was really feeling good I knew by the lost in space look before orgasm. I was obviously wrong when I was searching for these techniques that would really stimulate him. It helped somewhat but it wasn't the core issue and therapists are really good at getting to the core issue.
If this isn't a fit maybe it will help others. Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Post by deadzone75 on Aug 23, 2021 0:09:38 GMT -5
It almost seems she is getting ready to leave me. I havent asked her this but I've asked her why doesn't she seem happy? What can I do to make you happy? Aren't you attracted to me anymore? She always insists nothing is wrong and she is still attracted to me. I just don't get it. She won't touch me, acts like she doesn't even like me, but won't say anything?My wife is beautiful. I love her more now than ever. It hurts to think she doesn't feel the same. It suddenly occurred to me today that I think my wife has outgrown me. We marred when she was 21 and me 31. She needed me then to take care of her and I did. Then she got sick and she needed me and I was there. I think she has reached a point where she doesn't need me anymore and it makes me sad. I felt like crying today but I don't cry. This is a common statement from refusers, and a gigantic insult to the refused. No refuser, I don't give a shit who they are or what their issues are, can speak those words and expect the significant other to swallow them. They know they aren't fucking you, they know you notice they aren't fucking you because you asked the question (not in so many words), and then they say they are still attracted to you even though they won't fuck you. You mentioned her avoidance of a counselor because her past sins will come to light? Because she was talking to a guy from school? Even if their conversations were sexual in nature, that doesn't seem to warrant avoiding a counselor. That speaks more to her transgressions running deeper than you know, and she's afraid of having them pulled to the surface by said counselor. To be honest, based on her increasing neglect, it sounds like she's found her way back there. Sorry you found yourself here, but welcome. And one more thing. Do yourself a favor and let yourself cry; it can be quite cathartic. |
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Post by angeleyes65 on Aug 26, 2021 19:05:23 GMT -5
onempty I would see a lawyer. I'm sorry you are going through this but I'm afraid she is either having an affair or planning on leaving or both. I did the same thing before I left. Obviously my reasons were I was in a sexless marriage with a narcissist. But distancing myself completely made it easier. On top of the lawyer you might make a marriage counseling appt if you want to try to save the marriage. Best of luck to you. You have stayed through a lot hopefully she will be willing to try to work it out.
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Post by h on Sept 9, 2021 14:26:47 GMT -5
onempty I see some similarities between our situations. You talk about her needing you when you got married and then when she got sick but that now she may not need you anymore. At first glance it appears that your relationship was defined by the roles you each took on. You based your marriage around you serving her needs but now the needs are either not there or not the same. Without that defined role, you may never be able to offer her what she wants now. Likewise, she may never be able to provide you with what you need. Your role of caregiver/provider/supporter is now unnecessary so you both need to redefine your new roles. Those new roles may be compatible enough to continue the marriage, or maybe they won't. In my own situation, I was the caregiver boyfriend for her through a serious illness before we got married. Once the illness was resolved, we got married and I thought things would progress. She still expected me to act like a caregiver though and despite her WORDS of love and affection, her ACTIONS never followed through. Her interest in intimacy was non-existent from the start and only occurred a few times a year out of guilt. That never improved. My W is stuck in the mindset that she needs to be cared for and will likely never move past it. Your W appears to be moving on. Maybe you just need to talk to her about reevaluating the relationship and making a new normal.
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