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Post by darstar on Jun 3, 2016 10:02:58 GMT -5
Its as old as time itself , finances in a relationship be it in marriage , common union , inheritance , brother and sister , its the number one way to advance control over others.As we age the problems divert to security/money matters directly, how we deal with them differently when retirement, health care, comfort, become reality.
These days , the new sixty has become like fifty , and the new seventy can feel like 60 or younger, lets face it , people are living longer and should be living happier as a result. Unfortunately relationships do not always follow the same and can lead to the advancement of " gray divorce" or estrangement of couples all because of finances and ones ability to control the money, the income. I feel my own problems could be text book for so many unhappy folks out there, most who just will not talk about it, they have given up. Personally the difference in age ( she is 8 years younger ) was never a problem like it is now. I thought these past 40 years that when I turned seventy I would have a younger wife that could pick up some of the steam I would loose with age, if nothing else post pone retirement a little longer , we could do more things and not have to worry about money and stuff and living on a fixed income.........well it did not turn out that way totally and brought on other issues that again revolved around money. When I decided to retire from my small service business I had created over 40 years ago then, I never thought I would hear the words. " I love you, but just not in a sexual way anymore" , it got worse , " understand it is NOT ME , its only you I feel that way about and I would never cheat on you , no its nothing like that, its just you and the years of stress brought on by your drinking too much and the embarrassment" . I thought a lot about those words, yes as the business was failing I sorta knew that, and I was acting out the stress by drinking more. Granted, she was always around, we were very social and had many friends all around the Globe, we worked in the same office as I had hired her many years ago to be the account in the business. I had over the years turned over everything to do with money to Her, I was the creator, the income maker , the guy that made things happen. If we wanted more stuff, I just worked harder and craftier ...and it would come to be. Never did I think all these years she was unhappy , yes sometimes during lean times She worried over paying the bills, the employees, and still be able to do all the things together we had grown accustomed to but I never thought we had personally a problem, it was never discussed. She always was and still is , tight lipped , kept all her real feelings close. I thought over the years that would change, it did not, we never talked...until that day 12 years ago when I retired way too early from a failing business that I did not know was in as bad a shape , again Her /me not talking about anything that could effect the happiness in our relationship.
This rant is getting way too long, so here in a nut shell is...the rest of the story. I quit drinking 12 years ago, not a drop since. The business went into a tailspin when I found out She owed the IRS 150,000 in back payroll taxes. I sold vintage cars to pay off the IRS. The business after 40 plus years became insolvent and filed for bankruptcy She ,with my help, became the front person servicing our long time customers as an agent , a new Corporation with two owners, thats it , a new beginning.We moved, sold the house and I spent the next 6 years building our retirement home on a mountaintop overlooking the largest freshwater lake in the world..... I put off the lack of closeness between us and concentrated, I felt very alone , but busy with my hands and being creative once more . Business became good again, money rolled in, and I had no control over the income. She on the other hand did have control over everything, no sex now for 12 years , She refused help with our relationship, went once then quit and I continued for a year , every week, but for nothing. WE get along well otherwise, whenever I look unhappy she buys something that will divert my thoughts, and of coarse extend our debt and ensure the need for her to keep going with the business, which she says she will never quit, until she is dead. I would like to leave, I long for romance and not feeling lonely, I still want a sexual relationship, I have told her that, she just turns away. I am sure she thinks I will do nothing, my age, lack of own income control, and a still alive but dormant love for her after forty years of marriage is enough. I do feel trapped, I do resent Her for this and I resent myself for not walking 12 years ago, a sad existence in a sea of material things , living a lie daily is hell on earth but I want not for the nicer things, just the emotional happiness.
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Post by baza on Jun 3, 2016 20:36:40 GMT -5
This - "I do feel trapped, I do resent Her for this and I resent myself for not walking 12 years ago" - is the key thing I got out of your post. - Looking ahead, to say June 2018, are you going to be saying - "I should have walked back in June 2016" - Did you - 12 years ago - consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would have shaken out for you ? Do you know - today - how a divorce would shake out for you ? - Without this knowledge, you are making your choice(s) about your future on inadequate information. - That's not to say you *should* leave (or stay for that matter) but you *should* make a fully informed choice between the two options. You owe yourself at least that. But the choice itself, is entirely down to you. - Suggestion. At this point, you are staying. That might not be your choice in days / months ahead, but as of right here and now, that IS what you are choosing. If you can acknowledge that, and take ownership of that, take responsibility for that, then you shed the "trapped victim" mentality. And out of that adjustment to your thinking, big things can emerge.
PS - and see a lawyer.
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Post by unmatched on Jun 3, 2016 22:36:48 GMT -5
I know you have told her you want sex. Does she know just how unhappy you are? (If she knows you she must do but have you made it explicit in a way she can't avoid?)
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Post by lwoetin on Jun 4, 2016 3:00:05 GMT -5
When I decided to retire from my small service business I had created over 40 years ago then, I never thought I would hear the words. " I love you, but just not in a sexual way anymore" , it got worse , " understand it is NOT ME , its only you I feel that way about and I would never cheat on you , no its nothing like that, its just you and the years of stress brought on by your drinking too much and the embarrassment" ...... .....I would like to leave, I long for romance and not feeling lonely, I still want a sexual relationship, I have told her that, she just turns away. I am sure she thinks I will do nothing, my age, lack of own income control, and a still alive but dormant love for her after forty years of marriage is enough. I do feel trapped, I do resent Her for this and I resent myself for not walking 12 years ago, a sad existence in a sea of material things , living a lie daily is hell on earth but I want not for the nicer things, just the emotional happiness. Her statement is unclear to me about the "it's only you I feel that way about". Is she referring to her love for you? You thought it got worse so you probably didn't think that is what she said? You still love her and want a sexual relationship with her after 40yrs of marriage. I don't know if I can leave because of the lack of sexual relationship but I can leave if my wife does not love me. My impression is that you don't feel loved...which doesn't mean that she doesn't love you. Since you and your wife do not communicate very easily with one another it is probably good to explain to her your unhappiness and that you will leave her if nothing changes. If she loves you, some things will change.
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Post by darstar on Jun 5, 2016 17:41:02 GMT -5
I know you have told her you want sex. Does she know just how unhappy you are? (If she knows you she must do but have you made it explicit in a way she can't avoid?) Twelve years ago a failing business was all that was on my mind. I did not feel interested in sex much ether, but "keeping busy" was a diversion I made for myself. I became very dependent in her, especially when I was drinking way too much...DWI , AAA ,etc. for over a year. Me and Her goal was to sell our house in the start of the housing bust, group together enough cash to start over and build our retirement home 500 miles to the north. We already had the "talk" about Her lack of interest in sex the year before.That that may change and she would be interested again.....I never really believed that...I do recall becoming active in MySpace and seeking women , mostly in Canada. I recall looking very hard for a long ago love and sending flowers on Her birthday, but , never made contact. So, I feel I was thing about moving on, wishing something would happen out of the blue and I could ride away with the perfect woman for me, into the sunset.WE continued to do things, like a 6 week trip to Alaska, which was after I had stopped drinking and after the sexless talk we had " Contact an attorney ?", no only the one who was handling the business BK. I was so engrossed at the time in getting money together by selling on eBay many thousands of dollars for three years steady, so my time on the computer was day and night between selling, being creative with female friends in MySpace, and still working with customers in the business that had not yet failed. My problems with the wife surfaced big time when I found out She had been keeping from me the IRS tax problems. I feel to this day , I should have let her go to jail and not sold cars to bail Her out. I still do not forgive Her for that. This is where I feel trapped, had someone else came along things could have came to a head , I will never know. I more and more dream about Her finding someone else to make myself act, or to justify any actions I might do . I wish she had an affair, she may have some, but I doubt it. Within the last year I did send Her a letter of release to have an affair,, as well mayself, I doubt She thought about it....there was no replay except that She got the letter !
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Post by unmatched on Jun 5, 2016 17:57:04 GMT -5
Have you thought much about what would happen if you left? I guess that splits into how a divorce would leave you both from a practical point of view, and then also do you have a realistic idea of what your life might look like after you split and what you would want to do with the rest of your life. You are obviously not happy as things stand, and you seem to keep pushing the envelope a bit further and a bit further towards trying to create some kind of change. But something is holding you back. It might be helpful to try and think clearly about what your life might look like if you separated, what you are afraid of and also what are the good and bad things about your life as it stands now. That puts you in a much stronger position to know what you want and why.
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Post by baza on Jun 5, 2016 18:07:31 GMT -5
This reads like you'd like to end the situation, but would also like her to pull the trigger, or engage in some unacceptable thing that would "justify" you pulling the trigger. - But if you want "out" (as your posts suggests) what difference does it make who ends it ? Does it make any difference in your jurisdiction who initiates the split ? (your lawyer can answer that - and many more - questions).
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 5, 2016 20:09:11 GMT -5
This sounds like two people locked in a death grip of resentment and excuses. Somebody has to have the guts to actively end it already, otherwise your collective passivity will keep you in an endless stalemate of dishonesty forever. There is so much deception in this story, deception of each other (online affairs, not paying the taxes, not being honest with each other about needs and desires) and self-deception (that it will ever improve, that you even love each other or enjoy each other's company, etc). It sounds to me like you are both pretty co-dependent and most of it is around money. But at the same time, you say you don't care about all the nice things. So what is keeping you there besides intertia and excuses?
Not trying to be harsh but if you ever want to escape from this dead relationship you're going to have to start being honest with yourself and her and stop making excuses or looking at the past. The future is now.
You know you wouldn't be posing here unless things were bad! Consider this some tough love from an escapee of the SM shit show.
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Post by darstar on Jun 6, 2016 17:29:25 GMT -5
Have you thought much about what would happen if you left? I guess that splits into how a divorce would leave you both from a practical point of view, and then also do you have a realistic idea of what your life might look like after you split and what you would want to do with the rest of your life. You are obviously not happy as things stand, and you seem to keep pushing the envelope a bit further and a bit further towards trying to create some kind of change. But something is holding you back. It might be helpful to try and think clearly about what your life might look like if you separated, what you are afraid of and also what are the good and bad things about your life as it stands now. That puts you in a much stronger position to know what you want and why. Yes , I have thought a lot about what would happen if I left. The problem is income, money , plain and simple. At 70+ I do not relish starting over, I have done that before last wife, it was tough but I was only 30 and it did not take long to start up my old business, start making money again. It was my second wife that wanted out and she was a pardner in the business, the divorce contained a non-compete clause and a monthly check, new car, sounded good to me...but then the checks stopped and I had to start over,I should have gone for a cash settlement, but then when the checks stopped so did the non compete, so in the long run I was better off starting over. it was the best thing for me in the long run. My social life in a singles resort complex was heaven on earth as a result, good looking blond blue eyed guy in his early thirties with a fast expensive sports car and money to do what I wanted and I did what I wanted several nights a week, it was almost too much fun !! Yes I long for those days again, it opened me up to the social life I never had before , ( did not go to college ) working seven days a week and , being insecure...boy did that change ! Today , if I left, would I still get the income ? ( remember this is a service business) She has told me what she does, generate the income, a good income, is her alone, no employees, when she stops the income stops...I do not like that for other reasons too, what if she would die or get very sick ? She wants total control, tells me that all the time when I bring up hiring at lest one person, she refuses. Yes, I could take over again, pick up where she has left off should she exit the picture, but I do not like the idea being retired so long and my age. second and I guess the greatest fear is if I left , would she split the profits in this closely held corp, where I am president on paper, but its her that generates the income every day and allows us to snowbird in the SW every winter in our Motorcoach, Porsche 911 , etc. ( its a online/phone business ),...all this, yes those are the things I think about, everyday ! I guess from what posters are saying here , give it a try, at lest put the deal on the table and see what her answer is, I think I know, but ?
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Post by darstar on Jun 6, 2016 18:52:23 GMT -5
When I decided to retire from my small service business I had created over 40 years ago then, I never thought I would hear the words. " I love you, but just not in a sexual way anymore" , it got worse , " understand it is NOT ME , its only you I feel that way about and I would never cheat on you , no its nothing like that, its just you and the years of stress brought on by your drinking too much and the embarrassment" ...... .....I would like to leave, I long for romance and not feeling lonely, I still want a sexual relationship, I have told her that, she just turns away. I am sure she thinks I will do nothing, my age, lack of own income control, and a still alive but dormant love for her after forty years of marriage is enough. I do feel trapped, I do resent Her for this and I resent myself for not walking 12 years ago, a sad existence in a sea of material things , living a lie daily is hell on earth but I want not for the nicer things, just the emotional happiness. Her statement is unclear to me about the "it's only you I feel that way about". Is she referring to her love for you? You thought it got worse so you probably didn't think that is what she said? You still love her and want a sexual relationship with her after 40yrs of marriage. I don't know if I can leave because of the lack of sexual relationship but I can leave if my wife does not love me. My impression is that you don't feel loved...which doesn't mean that she doesn't love you. Since you and your wife do not communicate very easily with one another it is probably good to explain to her your unhappiness and that you will leave her if nothing changes. If she loves you, some things will change. The way I have taken this statement ( said by her several times ) is She wanted me to know that there was nothing wrong with her and she still loved me, but just not the way it used to be.
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Post by baza on Jun 6, 2016 19:24:59 GMT -5
Again, have you seen a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you ? What you might - or may not - be able to do in the event of a split is entirely theoretical at this moment. You need some hard facts, and THEN you can consider how to manage that scenario. - This talk of Porsches and Motorcoaches indicate that there are joint assets to split, the annual winter trips seem to indicate that there are a few bucks kicking around. - Get the facts would be my suggestion. Then you can make a fully informed choice about your next move.
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Post by darstar on Jun 6, 2016 19:48:20 GMT -5
This sounds like two people locked in a death grip of resentment and excuses. Somebody has to have the guts to actively end it already, otherwise your collective passivity will keep you in an endless stalemate of dishonesty forever. There is so much deception in this story, deception of each other (online affairs, not paying the taxes, not being honest with each other about needs and desires) and self-deception (that it will ever improve, that you even love each other or enjoy each other's company, etc). It sounds to me like you are both pretty co-dependent and most of it is around money. But at the same time, you say you don't care about all the nice things. So what is keeping you there besides intertia and excuses? Not trying to be harsh but if you ever want to escape from this dead relationship you're going to have to start being honest with yourself and her and stop making excuses or looking at the past. The future is now. You know you wouldn't be posing here unless things were bad! Consider this some tough love from an escapee of the SM shit show. I know you are right....somthing has to give. Wrong about the " nice things". That's part of the problem. Neather one of us wants to give them up. In order to divide everything......lots would have to be sold.....at a huge loss, we have got in too deep, that's where I think she finds comfort.....I should have resisted .
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Post by darstar on Jun 6, 2016 19:57:48 GMT -5
Again, have you seen a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you ? What you might - or may not - be able to do in the event of a split is entirely theoretical at this moment. You need some hard facts, and THEN you can consider how to manage that scenario. - This talk of Porsches and Motorcoaches indicate that there are joint assets to split, the annual winter trips seem to indicate that there are a few bucks kicking around. - Get the facts would be my suggestion. Then you can make a fully informed choice about your next move. Yes, the bucks are income, little saved , mostly tied up in material things, including a half million dollar cottage in a reverse mortgage . I have been crafty and aggressive selling and buying, in this case it could take several years to make happen, and both sides would need to cooperate . I agree on legal council, but there needs to be a direction I am headed first.
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