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Post by petrushka on Jan 3, 2021 21:55:51 GMT -5
I know, I know, 'no politics'. But look at it another way: Enquiring minds want to know. Do I scream at my nephew to leave SF and come back to these shores? He maintains that, oh, California is not that bad. Yet?, I wonder.
We are used to hear this from 3rd world countries, be it Africa, be it South East Asia: there's an election, and the moment the result is announced, the loser starts screaming fraud, it was rigged, they voted the graveyard and what not. Nobody in those countries accepts the result of an election, it seems they have no real clue what democracy is, and what voting is all about. The election is only valid, if THEY win it. They think.
All right, they have no history of it, they don't *really* understand it, it's sad and terrible at the same time, but hey ... 
For a couple of months now, the 1st world countries have been watching how the orange narcissistic psychopath is trying to overturn democracy in the US. There is no other word for it: he's not just calling the election into question, he's trying to pervert the whole system. Resorting to blackmail, considering a military coup. And one of your two political parties goes right along with him.
Don't they, realistically, give a shit about democracy, or are they that power hungry that no constitution, no law, matters to them any more. Have they no shame?
If they had ANY decency, they'd quietly send an ambulance to the White House, and the friendly men in the white coats would take him away where he can't do any more mischief. But they back him all the way, even though their position is plainly visible to be pointless, and, let's face it, illegal. Not least, they're actually cutting down the tree they're sitting in.
We are sitting here, across which ever body of water, gobsmacked, looking on and seriously don't understand what's going on. Is the US now the equivalent of a 3rd world country?
Personally I have nothing but contempt for the people who support that kind of carry-on. Just W.T.F.
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Post by Handy on Jan 3, 2021 22:44:17 GMT -5
Petrushka, there is so much money given to politicians it is bound to become corrupt. The Supreme Court made it worse when they said corporations are people and can donate unlimited amounts of money during a campaign. The case of "Citizens United" gave more power to the wealthy and large corporations. Politicians fight, lie and cheat for that money.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 4, 2021 4:43:21 GMT -5
My thesis-the United States is a country settled- rather recently-by immigrants genetically loaded for religious extremism and materialism.
We also have many citizens who are the descendents of enslaved Africans, who still struggle against a system that has long been loaded against them. (Yes, it's getting better, but you don't wipe out hundreds of years of racial abuse overnight.)
America is a hyper capitalistic country which is a good place to be super wealthy but with insufficient systems to foster the perpetuation of a middle class, which has been so essential tol this nation's recent growth and stability.
And we are in love with violence and junk food to amuse ourselves!
The good news is that, if nothing else, we've now gotten a refresher course about how if we want a democracy, we have to vote, FFS! Duh! Let's hope that lesson is long remembered.
Americans have gotten fat and happy and we'd best learn our lessons if we want to regain the respect of the rest of the developed world. It's a very bad look we're manifesting right now.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 4, 2021 16:51:04 GMT -5
I believe the politicians are a reflection of those who elect them.
Do not blame the politicians unless you've worked your ass off to elect better people.
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Post by Handy on Jan 4, 2021 16:56:00 GMT -5
Some politicians actions are a result of who supports them with money and or votes.
You think you have choices but that is a myth too.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 4, 2021 17:34:24 GMT -5
My partner and I moved from the US to Mexico because we correctly predicted what would happen due to the 2016 election. We have never regretted our move. Friends who told us that we were alarmist have told us that our predictions and decision to become expats were right. My partner and I both majored in political science in college and knew enough of history to correctly predict what would happen in the US.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 4, 2021 20:39:15 GMT -5
Interesting points itme but bear in mind the shop local retailers policy might not help too much unless those stores sell made in America materials. Or are able to run their businesses without supplies purchased off Amazon. I think the answers are maybe not quite so simple as one might hope. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 11, 2021 8:21:22 GMT -5
In my youth (age 25-30) I had occasion to travel to several Spanish speaking countries south of the US. One of the things I noted about them was the presence of large #s troops in their capitols. It stuck in my mind that the government felt the need for troops to enforce its' rule and to quell any dissent by the locals should it arise. Now I see that same scenario is playing out in the US capitol as Democrats' feel the need for a military presence. It speaks volumes about a group that sees conspiracies' everywhere and feels threatened by their countrymen who may not share their opinions and goals. More and more it's looking like "boots on the ground" and barb wire fencing will be their preference when it comes to governance.
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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 11, 2021 19:46:03 GMT -5
In my youth (age 25-30) I had occasion to travel to several Spanish speaking countries south of the US. One of the things I noted about them was the presence of large #s troops in their capitols. It stuck in my mind that the government felt the need for troops to enforce its' rule and to quell any dissent by the locals should it arise. Now I see that same scenario is playing out in the US capitol as Democrats' feel the need for a military presence. It speaks volumes about a group that sees conspiracies' everywhere and feels threatened by their countrymen who may not share their opinions and goals. More and more it's looking like "boots on the ground" and barb wire fencing will be their preference when it comes to governance. Maybe if Qanon loons stopped coming up with new dates for coups, maybe we could let these guys do something more productive? I expect the 300+ people arrested for teh Capitol riot are slowly surrendering enough info that the most dangerous of them will be tracked and some sense of security can be re-established. www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965472049/the-capitol-siege-the-arrested-and-their-stories#databaseEmail is getting sifted, hard drives unencrypted, Parler and Facebook account passwords obtained and conversations monitored, banks and credit bureaus engaged, etc. The threat is being neutralized. The supply of bloody revolutionaries is finite. Large, but finite. It's plausible we can look forward to four very dull years. |
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Post by jerri on Mar 12, 2021 1:58:30 GMT -5
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Post by saarinista on Mar 12, 2021 10:26:09 GMT -5
I would just hope this would remain a forum where thoughtful things are posted. Even in this thread there is rumor and innuendo. That, to me, is dangerous. But I don't want to get Into political arguments on this website any more. I just encourage people to research before they act. Know your souces.
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 13, 2021 14:02:06 GMT -5
I apologize for taking so long to respond to your reply. Some thing more productive , like maybe the Qanon folks could join up with Antifa in Portland. Minneapolis or Denver and burn a few buildings or with black thugs in Chicago and kill some of the locals, prohibited from defending themselves by owning a firearm. I'm thinking you might be right about a trove of information being gathered from computers and other appliances. But I have some reservations about whether liberal Democrats are going to be receptive about the threat being neutralized. Seems like giving up the "coup" conspiracies' won't sell, as long as they seem to work. Looks like it is a pretty good strategy for keeping troops around in case the peasants rise up. I get ginned up whenever I see the government going full bore to enforce punishment for a certain group that they would mostly ignore if it was some other group engaging in the same activity. Let's say riots. Why is a riot in DC worse than some other city? If it's your ox that's being gored (or your business burnt)does it matter what your zip code is? I hope you are right about there being a finite # of revolutionaries, but again I have my doubts. Seems like a new batch is hatched out on a pretty regular basis. And we may see 4 very dull years. But my reasoning tells me we are more likely to suffer from the old Chinese curse...."may you live in interesting times". |
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 13, 2021 16:08:48 GMT -5
"Why is a riot in DC worse than some other city? If it's your ox that's being gored (or your business burnt)does it matter what your zip code is?
Because the riot in January was in sacred space--the US Capitol -- one of the primary symbols of the US's Democracy-- and was encouraged by the commander-in-chief, something that never had happened before. Any person up on the news and with a working brain could have foretold that riot was going to happen, but the Capitol Police and National Guard weren't prepared, something that doesn't make any sense unless those in official power deliberately let it happened because they didn't want the ballots to be officially totalled.
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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 15, 2021 5:17:36 GMT -5
I apologize for taking so long to respond to your reply. Some thing more productive , like maybe the Qanon folks could join up with Antifa in Portland. Minneapolis or Denver and burn a few buildings or with black thugs in Chicago and kill some of the locals, prohibited from defending themselves by owning a firearm. I'm thinking you might be right about a trove of information being gathered from computers and other appliances. But I have some reservations about whether liberal Democrats are going to be receptive about the threat being neutralized. Seems like giving up the "coup" conspiracies' won't sell, as long as they seem to work. Looks like it is a pretty good strategy for keeping troops around in case the peasants rise up. I get ginned up whenever I see the government going full bore to enforce punishment for a certain group that they would mostly ignore if it was some other group engaging in the same activity. Let's say riots. Why is a riot in DC worse than some other city? If it's your ox that's being gored (or your business burnt)does it matter what your zip code is? I hope you are right about there being a finite # of revolutionaries, but again I have my doubts. Seems like a new batch is hatched out on a pretty regular basis. And we may see 4 very dull years. But my reasoning tells me we are more likely to suffer from the old Chinese curse...."may you live in interesting times". A lot to unpack there. Too much to do so here. A key reason why there's a specific group to haul in, and explore their every digital orifice is that they took all those selfies. They made no attempt to hide their offenses. Thugs at riots aren't typically documenting their exploits. They know they're going to get arrested. They don't collect self-incriminating evidence. Were you this concerned about Obama's first term? Can you recall if you had deep foreboding? In teh first days of the Great Recession, did you foretell our economy being as strong as the one president 45 started out with (which was probably going to stay pretty good if not for the COVID shiv). Perhaps a wait and see attitude is called for. If Obama didn't make us into a dystopia, I just don't see Sleepy Joe pulling it off. He was in the Senate for 47 years and did nothing of consequence, we're told. NOW he's going to be a dynamo of activity and table flip the entire country? Can we make up our minds on that? The man lost presidential campaigns three times. Even if he decided to do something unwise, he's not the kind of guy to get it right the first go. Pour a frosty one, sit back and watch the man meander through his first term. I think you'll be....bored. |
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Post by jerri on Mar 15, 2021 17:30:33 GMT -5
I only point out what we can do better because I love America. I try to make a difference when I can.
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