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Post by baza on Apr 21, 2020 0:59:13 GMT -5
I was just putting a comment up on another thread before. Within the thread the phrase "working on it" came up, and caused me to think .... I reckon I've seen the phrase used a thousand times in this group. I've used it myself.
But WTF is it supposed to mean ?
"Working" on what ?
Lot's of stories in here seem to indicate that the refusing spouse is "working on keeping the marriage in the status quo. Working on prolonging the marriage in it's present dysfunctional state"
Lots of stories in here seem to indicate that the refused spouse is "working on trying to change the refusing spouse's mindset"
How do *you* define "working on it".
What does the phrase mean to you ?
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Post by michael on Apr 21, 2020 6:28:00 GMT -5
It would need to be a cooperative exercise between both partners. Something my partner is uninterested in. In fact she has been moving her stuff out. I don’t even say anything anymore about it. One day soon she will be just gone. She probably won’t even say goodbye. Just like she doesn’t say goodbye when I’m lwalking out the door to go to work.
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Post by csl on Apr 21, 2020 21:52:14 GMT -5
This is a new topic for ILIASM, and it takes me by surprise. In the past, on my blog, I have addressed this topic in a number of posts. Recently, I decided to aggregate my posts into different topics and make them downloadable, and the last one I did addressed this very topic. I make no bones about the fact that I am a Christian and that I write from a Christian perspective, so if that's not your cup of tea, walk on by, as the song says. However, I have written about working on yourself (a strong topic here on ILIASM) and on your marriage. In my posts on What does Better Look Like? and Resets, Resolutions and Reality, I did address what improvement looks like. Not wanting to spam the board, but for those who are interested, the Working .pdf (huge, btw) is found on my Download page. The first six chapters are for working on yourself, and the rest is about working on the marriage. For those who are interested, I hope there is something in there that helps. csl
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muzack
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by muzack on Apr 22, 2020 23:17:07 GMT -5
Not wanting to spam the board, but for those who are interested, the Working .pdf (huge, btw) is found on my Download page. The first six chapters are for working on yourself, and the rest is about working on the marriage. For those who are interested, I hope there is something in there that helps. csl Likiking what I've seen on the quick skim. Thanks for the link.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 23, 2020 11:59:02 GMT -5
For me: It meant considering "my fair market value" as a single man, and how I would arrange myself and affairs as a single person with my own interests and activities. -taking an interest and learning about basic fashion and style, and updating appearance (to the extent that I needed to) -shaving my balding head -trying different fitness routines until I found one that I was willing to stick with, enough to be *generally* appealing to a stranger or in a crowd - as "above average" -trying activities and appointment interests - things that would make me an interesting person, things outside of my norm - and that might be terrifying for me. I had a "rule of yes" in which if someone suggested I do something that they had done, I had to do it, whatever it was. (I went salsa dancing - hated it, to a nude beach, singing at a pub choir - which eventually led to performing and then performing at concerts) -cultivating male friendships or restoring or attending to them -not waiting for my wife to join me in my interests - allowing myself to spend money and time on things for me.
Couples-wise - again, saying "yes" or finding a way to make happen almost everything that my wife mentioned in passing that she wanted to do or try (thinking I wouldn't) - consider how hard that would be - given that at this point in the death spiral, she was suggesting crazy, reckless, thoughtless shit, simply to create a scenario in which I'd say "no" to her, so she could fight - date night - couples therapy - self-help books (which she did not read or take interest in) - upping my bedroom game and options by researching more techniques and especially kinks and alternative relationship formats that I thought might be hard to ask for, or embarrassing, so I'd at least have a frame of reference if that was the issue, and some way to negotiate genuinely a common ground - more quality time and attention with family and kids, outside of my normal roles in the division of labour at our house
Of all of these things, the thing that I found most intuitive and helpful to frame my mindset was "What would I do if I found myself single again? And if I would do that work then to improve my prospects for a relationship, why wouldn't I do that now?"
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 23, 2020 12:14:12 GMT -5
apocrypha said: "Of all of these things, the thing that I found most intuitive and helpful to frame my mindset was "What would I do if I found myself single again? And if I would do that work then to improve my prospects for a relationship, why wouldn't I do that now?"
What i did was something similar: I thought about what kind of person I wanted to be whether or not I was married. I wanted to have lots of supportive, interesting friends, and I wanted to be a happy, interesting, active person. I decided to dive into trying out things that people I admired did. The people I most admire are artsy people, so I took singing, dancing, acting, writing, and art classes even though I typically was the oldest (often by decades) and least experienced person in the class. I ended up not only finding wonderful friends, but also learning that I have talent as a performer!
When I decided to divorce, my life was full with friendships and activities. I knew I could be very happy single. Indeed, I rarely did activities with my husband because, frankly, he bored me and he was fine staying alone while I did my thing. We no longer had much in common. I now have been 7 years in a happy relationship with a man I met in a theater troupe. We act together, write together, and yes, we do make love and enjoy friendships together. Still, I want to emphasize that I didn't divorce because of finding a new partner. I divorced because I knew I could be happy single, indeed, happier single than continuing to be part of a dead marriage. I also didn't get involved in activities to find a man. I got involved in activities to find myself.
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Post by workingonit on May 3, 2020 19:55:55 GMT -5
Well, baza , I know you were not calling me out but I do feel that I should weigh in on that topic. For me, and why I chose the name, was to indicate that I was no longer going to just "go along." I found it so difficult to put my needs and my unhappiness in the spotlight, or in the top 5 on my priority list. I think as one more day passed I found myself more numb toward him than anything else. For my h, this was perfect. It caused him so much unhappiness when I pushed the issue of intimacy or sexuality or my dissatisfaction, which of course made me less willing to work on it. By "working on it" I meant and mean that I am no longer accepting the things I can change. I was willing to put a big old spotlight on the problems and hold it there- insist on conversations, therapy, date nights, etc. I pushed to get to the real issues. I had all the hard conversations again and again, never relenting, never willing to let things slide back into routine. Working on it now means working on ending this manifestation of this relationship. As co parents he will always be in my life. I hope we will also be able to friends. But there is no intimacy in this relationship and there is no working on that.
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Post by baza on May 19, 2020 21:58:23 GMT -5
I must say that - back in the day - I would have said that I was "working on it". And I would have claimed that in good faith. The facts were (with the benefit of hindsight) that I was "why chasing", not "working on it". And "why chasing" is bloody hard, time consuming and resource depleting. But it sure is hard work. And you can think that because you are really working hard, that you are really working on IT (the ILIASM situation) You ARE working hard, no doubt, but your focus is on things you can't control when you are why chasing .... and that is not productive work directed at the core problem. If anything, why chasing is actually diverting your attention away from the core problem. I recall Sister surfergirl writing a brilliant piece on this which explained it really well (I can't find it now unfortunately)
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Post by worksforme2 on May 20, 2020 7:57:55 GMT -5
I must say that - back in the day - I would have said that I was "working on it". And I would have claimed that in good faith. The facts were (with the benefit of hindsight) that I was "why chasing", not "working on it". I had not considered my efforts during the time I was trying to save the marriage from this perspective. But it does make sense in retrospect that I was "why chasing" as I read everything and tried numerous fixes as recommended by the "experts". Now I can see why the fixes really had no chance of working. It really wasn't about what I was or was not doing so changing me or the physical input I brought to the table had no chance of changing the dynamics, it just prolonged the recognition for me that I was trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. If there is to be any "working on it" it must be done by both parties or it's unlikely to work.
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Post by surfergirl on May 24, 2020 21:24:10 GMT -5
Hi baza, I'm not sure I recall what you are talking about that I said? Was it regards to why chasing? Do you remember the gist?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 17:14:06 GMT -5
There is an odd place where no one is "working on" anything any longer. Does she care for me? I don't know, she doesn't express affection in any way I recognize. Do I care for her? Yeah, but not my cup isn't exactly overflowing with passion. We have transcended "working on it" which seems to mean no one gives a shit any more other than familiarity. I 100% gave up on sex so she's relieved.
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