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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Mar 4, 2020 3:19:29 GMT -5
I have a friend of mine that was also in a sexless marriage. She got up the guts to leave her husband and go out on her own. Initially things went great, she was happy, having sex with multiple people, and enjoying life. But less than a year later things have taken a downward turn. The guys she was seeing have all moved on. She is having difficulty paying the bills as a single mother of two and will likely be forced to sell her house in the not too distant future. But the worst part of her situation is her kids have turned against her. They know mom is the one that initiated the divorce and they blame her for their unhappiness. They say all sorts of nasty things to her now and fight with her all the time. She is in counseling as well as her kids but that's only helping so much. She tells me that she feels worthless and talks of suicide. I am helping my friend try and put her life back together but it's not going to be an easy journey for her.
My friend's situation is my greatest fear. I know I'm not strong enough to handle that situation. I can clearly remember a period in my life, about six years ago, when I felt like my friend feels now. I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, all I saw was darkness. I barely made it through that time in my life and I know I cannot do that again. This is my motivation for staying in my sexless marriage. My wife and I get along pretty well these days and our kids are happy, they excel in school and sports, and seem to enjoy life. I'm not miserable but I'm not happy either, but that's a sacrifice that I have to make to ensure that my relationship with my kids doesn't rupture and I don't find myself back in that hole I was in six years ago. I'm not saying this is what anyone else should do, this is just what is working for me. Everyone's situation is unique and should be treated as such.
I'm sure some folks will point out all the failings in my plan. That's fine, I am aware of the downsides to staying. But you know what, I'm here, I'm alive, and I have a great relationship with my kids. That's what is important to me right now.
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Post by baza on Mar 4, 2020 5:25:14 GMT -5
There's very little evidence in this group of stories from escapee being unhappier when they get out. Quite the contrary. But there are not, and cannot be, any guarantees about that. I'm not trying to give you a critique of your situation, but I'd like to offer this up about "the kids". The relationship you presently have with your kids is - I imagine - different to what it was 10 years ago, or 5 years ago. Possibly now days it's a mentoring role whereas 10 years ago it may have been more like a protector role. And, in a further 5, or 10 years, the relationship will evolve further as they push off into their own future. Your relationship(s) will change, they'll need you less and less, but the time you do spend together will probably be more "in depth". What I'm suggesting here is that the reasons - today - you "stay for the kids" at their present stage of evolvement, will likely change, and at some point, say in 5 years time, the reason(s) you stay - as of March 2020 - may not still be relevant in say March 2025. You, and the kids relationship(s) will change. As it should. Anyway, you made your choice to stay a while back, and you took ownership of that choice, and you are living that choice. You are don't bag your missus or blame her for your choice, you've claimed ownership of your choice. You can do no more than that Brother lifeinwoodinville . Good on you I say. |
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Mar 4, 2020 10:06:23 GMT -5
There's very little evidence in this group of stories from escapee being unhappier when they get out. Quite the contrary. But there are not, and cannot be, any guarantees about that. I'm not trying to give you a critique of your situation, but I'd like to offer this up about "the kids". The relationship you presently have with your kids is - I imagine - different to what it was 10 years ago, or 5 years ago. Possibly now days it's a mentoring role whereas 10 years ago it may have been more like a protector role. And, in a further 5, or 10 years, the relationship will evolve further as they push off into their own future. Your relationship(s) will change, they'll need you less and less, but the time you do spend together will probably be more "in depth". What I'm suggesting here is that the reasons - today - you "stay for the kids" at their present stage of evolvement, will likely change, and at some point, say in 5 years time, the reason(s) you stay - as of March 2020 - may not still be relevant in say March 2025. You, and the kids relationship(s) will change. As it should. Anyway, you made your choice to stay a while back, and you took ownership of that choice, and you are living that choice. You are don't bag your missus or blame her for your choice, you've claimed ownership of your choice. You can do no more than that Brother lifeinwoodinville . Good on you I say. 100% correct. I have no idea what will happen a year, five year, or ten years down the road. My friend may just be in a tough patch right now and come out smelling like a rose in six months, no one knows. I can only plan for now. As I said, this is what is working for me, everyone's situation is unique. |
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Post by Baitnswitch on Apr 24, 2020 22:32:08 GMT -5
I understand what you’re coming from. You have to have a lot of emotional strength and a sleuth of other favorable conditions to afford to leave. If you can’t , it’s ok . I just read an entire boom about the subject . It’s called “When he’s not up for it anymore “. It’s geared at women in sexless marriages but I think it applies to everyone. What was interesting was that most people , 70% , living in sexless marriages choose to stay . It was surprising but I understand. There is more to marriage than sex and if the alternative doesn’t appeal to everyone. It seems that people who stay are judged as morally flawed or weak or whatever . Now there is this morally right thing to do : marriage is only supposed to last if there is eternal romantic love, which obviously involves sex. But the reality is different and it has been for centuries. There are other things at play in a marriage too. I also choose to stay. I was divorced before. I’m almost 50 and I had a good sec life in my first marriage . I dated in my early 40s and what I found in terms of sex in my demographic was nothing to write home about . I hated being single . It has a lot of disadvantages. It does have the advantage of giving you another chance at finding love . I found it and it was great up until about 1 year ago. Now it’s not good in the bedroom but a lot is still good . I just can’t divorce again . I can’t go through that again , being single , dating , and all that comes with that’. I’m already old. If I were in my 30s or even 40s but at my first marriage , yeah. Especially if I was young , 20s, 30s, yeah , could not face a celibate life . Maybe I’ll have a fling at some point . Probably not . I just can’t do it, I feel I have more to lose and I’m not able to do what I’ve done before over again . That marriage was it. I got it wrong again , in a different area. If I got it wrong again, and it’s not bad, we get alone fine, that’s it with the romance for this life. Maybe in the next life . Or the retirement home if I survive him  |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 24, 2020 23:36:41 GMT -5
“ It seems that people who stay are judged as morally flawed or weak or whatever . Now there is this morally right thing to do : marriage is only supposed to last if there is eternal romantic love, which obviously involves sex. But the reality is different and it has been for centuries. There are other things at play in a marriage too.”
There probably are far more people who think it’s morally wrong to end a marriage because of a lack of sex. That’s why many people here choose to stay married.
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Post by baza on Apr 25, 2020 0:11:43 GMT -5
I understand what you’re coming from. You have to have a lot of emotional strength and a sleuth of other favorable conditions to afford to leave. If you can’t , it’s ok . I just read an entire boom about the subject . It’s called “When he’s not up for it anymore “. It’s geared at women in sexless marriages but I think it applies to everyone. What was interesting was that most people , 70% , living in sexless marriages choose to stay . It was surprising but I understand. There is more to marriage than sex and if the alternative doesn’t appeal to everyone. It seems that people who stay are judged as morally flawed or weak or whatever . Now there is this morally right thing to do : marriage is only supposed to last if there is eternal romantic love, which obviously involves sex. But the reality is different and it has been for centuries. There are other things at play in a marriage too. I also choose to stay. I was divorced before. I’m almost 50 and I had a good sec life in my first marriage . I dated in my early 40s and what I found in terms of sex in my demographic was nothing to write home about . I hated being single . It has a lot of disadvantages. It does have the advantage of giving you another chance at finding love . I found it and it was great up until about 1 year ago. Now it’s not good in the bedroom but a lot is still good . I just can’t divorce again . I can’t go through that again , being single , dating , and all that comes with that’. I’m already old. If I were in my 30s or even 40s but at my first marriage , yeah. Especially if I was young , 20s, 30s, yeah , could not face a celibate life . Maybe I’ll have a fling at some point . Probably not . I just can’t do it, I feel I have more to lose and I’m not able to do what I’ve done before over again . That marriage was it. I got it wrong again , in a different area. If I got it wrong again, and it’s not bad, we get alone fine, that’s it with the romance for this life. Maybe in the next life . Or the retirement home if I survive him In this group - and over time, it seems that about 20% of the stayers have a mindshift and end up being "leavers". So this piece you've read @baitnswitch that puts the stayers percentage at 70% pretty much is the same as this group (probably closer to 80% in this group) Some choose to stay. Some choose to cheat. Some choose to leave. They are all perfectly valid choices. It's not a question of morals. It's a question of choices. There's plenty of members in here who are staying (and they seem like nice people to me). There are members who are cheating in this group too (and they seem nice people to me too) There are members who are leaving or have left their marriages (nice people too as far as I can see) |
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Post by Baitnswitch on Apr 25, 2020 8:22:40 GMT -5
“ It seems that people who stay are judged as morally flawed or weak or whatever . Now there is this morally right thing to do : marriage is only supposed to last if there is eternal romantic love, which obviously involves sex. But the reality is different and it has been for centuries. There are other things at play in a marriage too.” There probably are far more people who think it’s morally wrong to end a marriage because of a lack of sex. That’s why many people here choose to stay married. I think you're right. I did hear that reverse judgement. It does make sense that being judged would be one of the reasons one chooses to stay. If I think about it, if myself would choose to leave, my own family (parents, sister) would absolutely think I'm insane to leave because of sex. I actually do think leaving is the most authentic thing to do and is 100% justifiable to leave. I also don't think having an affair, under these circumstances, is wrong either. Indeed, judgement is one of the reasons I'm staying. Not just because of leaving because of sex judgement, but also, most importantly for me, judgement at being a twice divorcee. It's funny, in the first marriage I always thought the only thing keeping us together for that long (we were together 20 years, married legally 14) was sex. That was the only thing working great. And now, everything else is working BUT sex. For me, is a "I give up" decision. I would urge anyone who is young, at the first marriage, and other situations where leaving is possible, to give themselves a second chance. They WILL find someone else! I think the reason I was thinking stayers are judged is because of the book tone about the staying as making excuses. One of the examples were a 76 yo woman and a 78 yo man, who were alegedely staying together for their married kids and 7 gradnkids. This was presented as a couple making excuses. But I'm sorry, that's the wrong example. It would make very little sense for a couple of seniors that age to divorce because of sex. If they were 36 and 38, yeah, absolutely. But at that age, they probably have very little motivation or energy to disrupt their stability. Who knows if they can even afford to split? Finance are a huge factor. It's easy to dismiss. That's not my reason, I can afford to leave comfortably, but in some cases, I totally get the finances as being an insurmontable obstacle. Another example in the book was a woman who was I think 36 and she didn't want to leave her sexless marriage because she had built a life and career with her husband, and now he had finally made it, and she was saying she's not about to let a young 20 something have him now that he makes the big bucks and has a great career. The woman in the example also had a great career. Sounded like the authors didn't think her reason is legitimate. I do think it's sad that a 36 yo would stay in a sexless marriage and she should absolutely find the strength to go. But I completely understand the struggle. Life is hard and it often takes "blood, sweat and tears" to make it. If you work side by side with your partner through very though times, to make it in the world, I completely see how it would be hard to leave behind what you perceive as your hard work too. Not my case, but I understand how it's not an excuse or something necessarily materialistic, it's just a legitimate struggle. Anyway, it all sucks. I honestly hope as many people choose to and can leave because that's the only way to have another chance at happiness. I had 4 years of complete bliss after I met my husband. It was amazing! And now it's not that I'm unhappy, it's just all not complete without sex. Too bad. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 25, 2020 9:19:43 GMT -5
northstarmom didn't say this, but I can't delete her name and logo and I don't want to write it all again. You don't mention if you have had any conversation with your H about the lack of intimacy. It might be to your advantage to do so. It might not change anything as far as the amount of sex, that's often the case, but at least it would offer an opportunity for you to seek his reasoning for not doing what most men do, jump their spouse at every opportunity. If you find it is a libido issue there are medications (testosterone) that can address that, same for impotency. But 1st he has to be made to know how it effects you and the overall quality of the marriage, and then he has to want to fix it. If he loves you he will want to do whatever he has to to try and bring this aspect of the relationship back. If he is unwilling to seek medical advice or help that says a lot about how he views the relationship. And you don't say anything about other types of intimacy. Is there kissing, cuddling, touching or other physical signs that he wants to be close to you? If none of these are present then it isn't just the sex that is in play here. Staying is a perfectly valid choice, what ever your reasons. It's your life and what's important to you or in your long term interests should be the determining factors. |
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Post by Baitnswitch on Apr 25, 2020 12:35:28 GMT -5
There is a sleuth of health issues. Zero testosterone , obesity , diabetes... The low testosterone though was like that before too and we did not have many issues other than that I was the one to initiate . Then one medication for diabetes stopped and that was it. He could not get it up again. He did buy cialis and we tried but still didn’t work .We did the him pleasing me without penetration but I have to beg and ask and cajole and you know what, that became a turn off for me. I don’t want to masturbate, use toys etc in front of a completely uninterested man, whom I have to ask and drag to do something together. He pretends he is sleeping , makes excuses, lays there still in the beginning, unresponsive when I Kiss him... it’s just not worth it for me. So I stopped asking and haven’t since sometime last year .I forgot when.
About the testosterone treatments he said they have side effects and aren’t compatible with his other health issues.
Last night though I asked if he wanted to give each other massages this weekend and he said : no.i asked can you give me one , I don’t have the ability to go for my regular massage because of the quarantine and he started to joke “yeah maybe but we need to wash the dogs this weekend hahaha I can’t wash the dogs and give you a massage in the same weekend hahaha.” he would comply if I really didn’t give him a way out but see how that’s a turn off for me?
Now I plan to wait for the right moment and ask again about setting aside one day per week for “us time”. Doesn’t have to be sex. It could be just cuddling, holding each other etc. But I know he’ll not be interested. I just want to tell him that we WILL grow apart if we have so little physical contact and our marriage will fail. I plan to remind him how when we we’re dating ,he said “we will work to make sure that doesn’t happen “ (things will not change-said in an intimate moment when we were holding each other in bed and I said I hope things will never change -like I knew they will-) and ask him to make good on that promise . But I’m postponing because I am afraid of yet another stonewalling.
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Post by Baitnswitch on Apr 25, 2020 12:36:20 GMT -5
I meant “one medication for diabetes changed “, not stopped .
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Post by Baitnswitch on Apr 25, 2020 12:39:12 GMT -5
There is smooching and hugs. Initiating by me. He just endures. 🙄
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Post by baza on Apr 25, 2020 19:30:36 GMT -5
Your posts all read like you know where this is going Sister @baitnswitch
And it reads like you fear the judgement of others, particularly "being twice divorced"
I'd suggest to you that basing your choices on pleasing others, or adopting their particular moral code in lieu of your own, is a really rotten strategy.
In the final analysis, it is YOU who has to make these difficult choices, as it is YOU who is going to wear the consequences (good and bad) that ensue.
So making YOUR choices on a basis of what is in YOUR longer term best interests has a fair bit going for it as a strategy.
This strategy however almost certainly involves additional short term pain, with no immediate pay off.
Just one other thing -
If (and this is in no way a suggestion that you ought to ) you divorce, then people will leap to judgement.
You will be the focus of their attention as they apportion blame and find fault.
And you will remain the focus of their judgement for anything up to an hour before they attend to more pressing matters like how to best panic buy toilet paper, or to see who wins "Britain Has Talent" tonight.
You and your divorce will be yesterdays news before you know it.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 25, 2020 19:55:59 GMT -5
Baitnswitch said: “ Another example in the book was a woman who was I think 36 and she didn't want to leave her sexless marriage because she had built a life and career with her husband, and now he had finally made it, and she was saying she's not about to let a young 20 something have him now that he makes the big bucks and has a great career. The woman in the example also had a great career. Sounded like the authors didn't think her reason is legitimate. I do think it's sad that a 36 yo would stay in a sexless marriage and she should absolutely find the strength to go. ”
I think the 36 year old is likely on her way to being dumped because now that her husband has made it, he is involved with someone he considers to be of higher quality than his wife. He is probably getting his shit together for a divorce in his favor. That she may be planning to spend the next 40 years in a sm, but he probably has different plans.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 25, 2020 20:04:58 GMT -5
Baz said: “
And it reads like you fear the judgement of others, particularly "being twice divorced" I'd suggest to you that basing your choices on pleasing others, or adopting their particular moral code in lieu of your own, is a really rotten strategy.”
I agree with Baz. Saw my mother stay in a sexless, miserable, verbally and emotionally abusive marriage for fear of embarrassment due to her having had a previous marriage. So she remained in that marriage for 40 years until my dad died after a series of strokes that left him incontinent and speechless. She was his caregiver. After he died, she was so bitter and tired that every night she prayed for death.
Meanwhile I know women who have been married as many as 6 times and speak of those marriages without shame. They are vibrant, interesting women who have friends who don’t take negatively about them. The bottom line is the women are making choices to please themselves not other people.
Only you can live your life. Whether you live for others or to please yourself is your decision.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 25, 2020 20:30:38 GMT -5
I was divorced before. I’m almost 50 and I had a good sec life in my first marriage . I dated in my early 40s and what I found in terms of sex in my demographic was nothing to write home about . I hated being single . It has a lot of disadvantages. It does have the advantage of giving you another chance at finding love . . I’m already old. If I were in my 30s or even 40s but at my first marriage , yeah. Especially if I was young , 20s, 30s, yeah , could not face a celibate life . Maybe I’ll have a fling at some point . Probably not . I just can’t do it, I feel I have more to lose and I’m not able to do what I’ve done before over again . I wanted to offer you hope on this topic. I am 56 yrs old, my woman is 50. My woman was divorced 18 yrs. ago, had a few "relationships" with guys who sound like your current Husband. She 'gave up dating' for 2 years". That's understandable. Healing, and rebuilding yourself takes time. I too, needed a year of rebuilding and mistakes where made. I also had my world turned upside down, mainly my 6 children. However.... Being in your late 40's to early 50's does not have to be a death sentence? In fact my woman has a SUPER high sex drive , her love language is Touch, and Quality time ( same as mine) and both of our self esteem continues to do a complete 180 from the choke hold that a manipulative controlling ,self seeking, spouse can do to you. I also recall believing " I'd rather live in an empty house than in a house with an empty spouse!" Changing your influence (friends, mentors, work, books you read, exercise,etc..) like getting your massages, are all good steps in directing yourself from being codependent again. 50 is not old. Here in America, retirement communities start at 55 and up. (you would be the young hot babe in the neighborhood!) Here in Florida there is a town called "The Villages", an over 55 community, it has the highest % of STD's in the state! Sex, love, and intimacy does not end at age 50! |
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