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Post by jerri on Aug 25, 2021 3:46:05 GMT -5
The organisers of Boardmasters Festival in Cornwall say they are working with public health officials after 4,700 coronavirus cases emerged which are suspected to be linked to the event."
Good article. Come on guys let's go make another variant at a festival, say the invincible youth!
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Post by Handy on Aug 25, 2021 13:51:31 GMT -5
Local Covid cases Aug 25 2020=126. People wearing masks=almost everyone. People vaccinated=0%
Local Covid cases Aug 25 2021=604. People wearing masks=almost no one. People vaccinated=50%.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 25, 2021 20:16:17 GMT -5
Local Covid cases Aug 25 2020=126. People wearing masks=almost everyone. People vaccinated=0% Local Covid cases Aug 25 2021=604. People wearing masks=almost no one. People vaccinated=50%. Hospitalizations and deaths would be an important comparison as well. So many of those 50% are the most likely to get seriously sick. If there were 6000 cases but all of them were mild, not sure how much we should care. |
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Post by Handy on Aug 25, 2021 21:39:01 GMT -5
Mirrororchid, I will admit to only looking for the easy numbers from Montana's website.
I went to the store that used to have reduced hours and a guard making sure people had a mask on, grocery carts sanatized and other precautions in place. Then no counts as to how many people were allowed in the store at one time, no guard making sure every one wore a mask upon entry. Then things got very relaxed. No mask requirement, no guard, no one sanitizing shopping carts and maybe 2% of the customers wearing a mask and no masks for employees.
Today, with the Covid cases almost 5 times higher than last year, the store has a sign sayinf "masks are encouraged and all of the employees are wearing a mask. Customers with masks might be 5%.
I just read a story about Chicago wanting to have all city employees vaccinated by Oct 15 and the police department saying "hell no."
Chicago is a good place to die. They have a high murder and shooting rate and now people are refusing to get vaccinated.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 26, 2021 5:54:14 GMT -5
Mirrororchid, I will admit to only looking for the easy numbers from Montana's website. I went to the store that used to have reduced hours and a guard making sure people had a mask on, grocery carts sanitized and other precautions in place. Then no counts as to how many people were allowed in the store at one time, no guard making sure every one wore a mask upon entry. Then things got very relaxed. No mask requirement, no guard, no one sanitizing shopping carts and maybe 2% of the customers wearing a mask and no masks for employees. Today, with the Covid cases almost 5 times higher than last year, the store has a sign sayinf "masks are encouraged and all of the employees are wearing a mask. Customers with masks might be 5%. I just read a story about Chicago wanting to have all city employees vaccinated by Oct 15 and the police department saying "hell no." Chicago is a good place to die. They have a high murder and shooting rate and now people are refusing to get vaccinated. It's so weird. We're told not to expect the vaccine to stop infection (mysteriously, this lowering of the bar occurred as soon as it stopped preventing infection). We only need to worry about hospitalization and death, we're told. Yet, the numbers only include cases. It's not just the CDC that's faceplanting here. It seems like every state and local department of health is trying desperately to seem oblivious to good scientific method. The mandatory vaccination might make more sense if they focused on those putting the population and ICU capacity at risk: www.covid-datascience.com/post/overwhelming-evidence-now-that-previously-infected-have-robust-immune-protection-against-reinfectionThis collection of articles includes citations to Lancet, Science, the New England Journal of Medicine and Nature, four of the most respected sources of peer-reviewed, scientific research worldwide. Data, not anti- or pro-vaxx theory or propaganda. The MSM and health authorities appear unified in a goal that is not specifically aimed at ending the pandemic: vaccine everyone, regardless of risk. I won't be surprised if ten years hence we start seeing exposes about pharmaceutical company kickbacks, bribes, and grift. |
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Post by Handy on Aug 26, 2021 11:56:27 GMT -5
mirrororchid
I won't be surprised if ten years hence we start seeing exposes about pharmaceutical company kickbacks, bribes, and grift.
Yes, you are most likely correct. When it comes to large amounts of money it is common for some of the things you suggested to happen.
To me the crazy thing now are the stories of giving people money to get the vaccine.
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 26, 2021 13:45:54 GMT -5
mirrororchid
I won't be surprised if ten years hence we start seeing exposes about pharmaceutical company kickbacks, bribes, and grift. Yes, you are most likely correct. When it comes to large amounts of money it is common for some of the things you suggested to happen. To me the crazy thing now are the stories of giving people money to get the vaccine. I already commented on the $25 state reward program in NC to encourage people to get the jab. And true to form yesterday I read that a nearby county is going to reward the counties employees $250 to take the vaccine. If stupid behavior is subsidized you tend to get a lot of it. |
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Post by Handy on Aug 26, 2021 15:39:04 GMT -5
nearby county is going to reward the counties employees $250 to take the vaccine.
Unreal! On second thought, that is how some governments act with OPiuM other people's money.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 27, 2021 8:09:37 GMT -5
If paying people to get vaccinated works, I'm all for it. I've lost friends and relatives to this pandemic, and I almost lost my (fully vaccinated) partner to it, in part because the virus is becoming more lethal due to so many people not being vaccinated. I will support any methods -- including mandatory vaccines -- that will help end this pandemic. And it pisses me off that in my native country, the US, people are having to be begged, threatened, and bribed to get the vaccine while in Mexico where I now live it's very difficult to get the vaccine because the country doesn't have enough.
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 27, 2021 9:53:13 GMT -5
If paying people to get vaccinated works, I'm all for it. I've lost friends and relatives to this pandemic, and I almost lost my (fully vaccinated) partner to it, in part because the virus is becoming more lethal due to so many people not being vaccinated. I will support any methods -- including mandatory vaccines -- that will help end this pandemic. And it pisses me off that in my native country, the US, people are having to be begged, threatened, and bribed to get the vaccine while in Mexico where I now live it's very difficult to get the vaccine because the country doesn't have enough. I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior, so I ,would take a different path. Rather than paying people to get it I would make it prohibitive not to do it. If someone chooses to exercise their freedom not to vaccinate, then is hospitalized with the virus, perhaps a fine should be imposed. Say $250 a day to compensate society for the bed and medical resources they are consuming. And if they can be linked directly to an outbreak perhaps $1,000 might be appropriate. Like a speeding ticket or DUI. You can choose to speed or drink and drive but if you are caught there is a penalty imposed for that behavior. |
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 27, 2021 10:42:33 GMT -5
I like this idea from worksforme2: "I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior, so I ,would take a different path. Rather than paying people to get it I would make it prohibitive not to do it. If someone chooses to exercise their freedom not to vaccinate, then is hospitalized with the virus, perhaps a fine should be imposed. Say $250 a day to compensate society for the bed and medical resources they are consuming. And if they can be linked directly to an outbreak perhaps $1,000 might be appropriate. Like a speeding ticket or DUI. You can choose to speed or drink and drive but if you are caught there is a penalty imposed for that behavior."
I also would support prioritizing vaccinated patients for ICU beds over people who qualified for the vaccine but didn't get it. And there are medical reasons to do this: Vaccinated people with covid are more likely to survive severe covid than are unvaccinated people with covid.
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Post by Handy on Aug 27, 2021 11:19:31 GMT -5
Similar to Worksforme2's ideas, one health insurance policy I had a long time ago when there was a seat-belt VS no seat-belt controversy. My insurance company instituted an extra 20% co-pay clause if someone was injured in a traffic accident if they were not using their seat-belts.
Some people spouting the "freedom of choice" is theirs to exercise, are never going to pay for the possible virus transmission to other people so while they exercise their freedoms, they also can cause other people harm they will never pay for.
OK, so vaccinations are not perfect. It appears the risks of no vaccine are higher than with the vaccine by a large margin.
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Post by isthisit on Aug 27, 2021 12:49:15 GMT -5
If paying people to get vaccinated works, I'm all for it. I've lost friends and relatives to this pandemic, and I almost lost my (fully vaccinated) partner to it, in part because the virus is becoming more lethal due to so many people not being vaccinated. I will support any methods -- including mandatory vaccines -- that will help end this pandemic. And it pisses me off that in my native country, the US, people are having to be begged, threatened, and bribed to get the vaccine while in Mexico where I now live it's very difficult to get the vaccine because the country doesn't have enough. Mandatory vaccination cannot feasibly happen in democratic nations. You would never get a health professional worth a damn to administer any medication against the will of the recipient outside of secure MH contexts. I agree that it is disappointing to see folks requiring persuasion to be vaccinated as this is a key weapon in the fight against the genesis of new variants which could potentially see us all back to square one. But, everyone has the moral right to make a decision for themselves and this tenet of medical ethics needs to be protected regardless of the circumstances. In the U.K. 88% of the adult population have had at least 1 vaccination, and 78% have had both. |
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Post by hopingforachange on Aug 27, 2021 18:37:12 GMT -5
If paying people to get vaccinated works, I'm all for it. I've lost friends and relatives to this pandemic, and I almost lost my (fully vaccinated) partner to it, in part because the virus is becoming more lethal due to so many people not being vaccinated. I will support any methods -- including mandatory vaccines -- that will help end this pandemic. And it pisses me off that in my native country, the US, people are having to be begged, threatened, and bribed to get the vaccine while in Mexico where I now live it's very difficult to get the vaccine because the country doesn't have enough. Mandatory vaccination cannot feasibly happen in democratic nations. You would never get a health professional worth a damn to administer any medication against the will of the recipient outside of secure MH contexts. I agree that it is disappointing to see folks requiring persuasion to be vaccinated as this is a key weapon in the fight against the genesis of new variants which could potentially see us all back to square one. But, everyone has the moral right to make a decision for themselves and this tenet of medical ethics needs to be protected regardless of the circumstances. In the U.K. 88% of the adult population have had at least 1 vaccination, and 78% have had both. Mandatory vaccines have happened in the past, small pox is a perfect example. You either got the shot or paid the $5 penelty, in today's dollars that's $155. |
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Post by isthisit on Aug 27, 2021 21:18:13 GMT -5
Mandatory vaccination cannot feasibly happen in democratic nations. You would never get a health professional worth a damn to administer any medication against the will of the recipient outside of secure MH contexts. I agree that it is disappointing to see folks requiring persuasion to be vaccinated as this is a key weapon in the fight against the genesis of new variants which could potentially see us all back to square one. But, everyone has the moral right to make a decision for themselves and this tenet of medical ethics needs to be protected regardless of the circumstances. In the U.K. 88% of the adult population have had at least 1 vaccination, and 78% have had both. Mandatory vaccines have happened in the past, small pox is a perfect example. You either got the shot or paid the $5 penelty, in today's dollars that's $155. Sounds like the public had a choice still in this example. |
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