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Post by Handy on Oct 12, 2019 13:05:56 GMT -5
I was reading Mypaintbrush's thread about her dating experiences and frustrations. I also had in mind the many posts about ILIASM members ideas that dating is frustrating.
My questions are "where is your line on what is acceptable or just not worth the effort. I had age differences, weight, height and income mainly in mind.
I hear women say once a woman is past a certain age it is the men that have most of the advantages. IOW, women lose market value as they age. I think market value has more to do with a woman's physical condition and given so many men and women are heavier these days, weight seems to be a major factor when it comes to looks and a person's impressions. My idea is that age isn't as important to men in a similar male to female age bracket as a person's weight or some other personal characteristics.
I read a woman's dating site a few times and several woman said a date with man-boobs and or a beer-gut wouldn't make it past the first date. Some women ended the first date based on the guys excessive weight issues. Several women wanted a man to be (nn) inches taller than her height. Some women said the guy had to weigh (nn) pounds more than her.
On n the male insecurity side, how much income or lifestyle does a partner have to have?
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 12, 2019 15:00:09 GMT -5
Every woman is different so there are no universal cutoffs. I have a cute, college graduate employed woman friend who is dating a disabled (back problem) unemployed, college drop out man with teeth that make him look like a meth addict even though he isn’t. She had to pay for everything. They have been dating for two years. She says she likes him because he is funny and fun.
Another friend, age 62 with a msw has dated a series of unemployed men who share her interest in going dancing to local bands.
When I started dating at age 61 I wanted a man who unmarried, was self supporting, honest, not a felon or addict, shared my political beliefs and was good in bed, I wasn’t looking for expensive gifts or entertainment . I could pay for what I wanted and needed.
Most women whom I know who are single and old enough that they aren’t looking for a future baby daddy are more interested in a man’s character, personality, interests and his being single than the women care about his money ( but for many they do want the man to be self supporting and have his own transportation). Many also care about a man’s health. They don’t want to be a nurse.
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Post by isthisit on Oct 12, 2019 15:01:43 GMT -5
I was reading Mypaintbrush's thread about her dating experiences and frustrations. I also had in mind the many posts about ILIASM members ideas that dating is frustrating.
My questions are "where is your line on what is acceptable or just not worth the effort. I had age differences, weight, height and income mainly in mind.
I hear women say once a woman is past a certain age it is the men that have most of the advantages. IOW, women lose market value as they age. I think market value has more to do with a woman's physical condition and given so many men and women are heavier these days, weight seems to be a major factor when it comes to looks and a person's impressions. My idea is that age isn't as important to men in a similar male to female age bracket as a person's weight or some other personal characteristics.
I read a woman's dating site a few times and several woman said a date with man-boobs and or a beer-gut wouldn't make it past the first date. Some women ended the first date based on the guys excessive weight issues. Several women wanted a man to be (nn) inches taller than her height. Some women said the guy had to weigh (nn) pounds more than her.
On n the male insecurity side, how much income or lifestyle does a partner have to have?
So I am potentially in the realm of dating again sometime soon. I don’t particularly agree that women have a different shelf life to men. I think both genders can be attractive for their age group. I have no wish to look twenty five again, just okay for the age that I am. I do agree that being overweight can negatively affect he attractiveness of both genders in terms of physical appearance and lifestyle choices. I am unlikely to enjoy a hiking date with someone who cannot walk and talk because they are a tubby custard. Perhaps I sound overly romantic, but it’s who you are that is most meaningful surely? I would swap a good nature, intelligence, integrity, humour and stuff in common for a six pack any day, and I imagine most people would. I have no interest whatsoever in the income of a man I may wish to date. I just do not understand the question, why would this be important? I am financially independent of my H, have my own income, assets, pension arrangements etc. I am most certainly not looking for a meal ticket, and guys if your income is a factor for a potential new woman in your life, run and run hard in the opposite direction. It is the 21st century. |
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Post by Handy on Oct 12, 2019 15:41:34 GMT -5
isthisit, I agree with most of what you posted. BTW, I think I am past the age of having a six-pack other than some assortment of what ever comes in cans or bottles so that wasn't even something I was thinking about.
Take the hiking part. I know women that are over 65 that can walk to the mailbox in front of their house (100 ft round trip) and that is about all they can walk. OTH I know a woman that does 5 and 10 mile walks. I hinted to her I would like to go on a 7 mile hike to a lake up high in the mountains but I had my doubts that I could make it up and back down to the car. She told me to lose weight and THEN try it. I took that as she wasn't interested because she made other comments about liking her single life. I only suggested the lake destination because she talked about how much she wanted to do it again and talked about really wanting to take pictures of the mountain flowers.
As I see things, there two things about excessive weight. It is not attractive (depending on how over weight) and the physical capabilities or limits an over weight person is restricted doing physical and endurance limitations.
My main reason I started this thread goes back to a few women on this forum saying as a woman ages, the aging works against her. My idea is age isn't the big negative factor but a person's physical abilities and extra weight-medical issues make it more difficult for women and men to garner attention from the opposite sex.
About the money part, I have no doubt most older women don't have "looking for a meal ticket" mentality but I do hear they worry about some imaginary man might want them for their house (a place to live) or that a man might want to dip in to their nest egg. A man with his own money/income, I suppose that wold make most women less worried about protecting what she has.
Regardless of the height-weight-medical issues, like Northstarmom said, compatibility is a very important part of any social relationship. If the compatibility is there many of the other minor miss-matches become less important.
Is anyone brave enough to list what would be the cut-off line for some things considered common, like weight or body type? I already listed the things I have read about such as no man boobs, no pot belly, no one shorter than n inches than the woman, has to have hair or no comb overs, etc.
Lots of people my age have had several surgeries and things removed so scars and what is missing come with the territory in my age group.
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Post by isthisit on Oct 12, 2019 16:05:54 GMT -5
Handy I have no cut off limits, that feels a little discriminatory for me. Obesity is likely to be an issue if I am honest, but carrying a few llbs wouldn’t be as I am a big foodie. I don't mind hair loss, scars, surgical interventions, past medical histories etc. So my cut offs would be; no boring bastards, functioning junk a must and no spongers (good luck anyone thinking they can use me as a meal ticket). You’re right about the comb over though- it’s fine to discriminate there. Urgh.
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Post by Handy on Oct 12, 2019 16:36:13 GMT -5
isthisit , I like to eat a bit more than the average person so some extra weight isn't a problem for me. It is almost abnormal now days to fit into the height-weight-BMI charts anyway. I watch people some when I shop and wonder what they might be like to live with and what keeps them in a relationship. I don't actually know if they are in any relationships except two married acting people that come into a store with kids. About your "spongers" I had in mind more like spenders VS savers and what some people consider thrifty VS people that live more exciting lives and do lots of things that require at least a fair amount of disposable income. I wasn't looking for extremes but where the cut-off line was. I had fairly common lifestyles and fairly common events in mind. In the weight area I know that 80% of the women in my circle of friends are over weight and some very over weight. I only have some theoretical-romantic based issues with the over weight women. It isn't a problem because I don't pursue anything IRL. I suppose for many of my female acquaintances, a bigger issue than weight would be their spending habits, mainly not having or having a very limited "rainy-day-fund." OTH maybe I am too concerned with having back-up plans. The transmission and water heater go bust, I have both covered and then some.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 12, 2019 20:20:37 GMT -5
I can’t list cutoffs for weight. Before I dated post sm lover, I thought he was fatter than I would like. After I dated him, I didn’t care. I was in love with his character and his pheromones. FWIW he was about 6’ 250 when we started dating. Now he is about 202. He lost weight for health reasons.I love his heart and hard no matter the size.
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Post by Handy on Oct 12, 2019 21:14:29 GMT -5
Northstarmom
Before I dated post sm lover, I thought he was fatter than I would like. After I dated him, I didn’t care. I was in love with his character and his pheromones.
I think what you just said would be very common. I look at some people and think "not all that interesting" then get to know them and change to "not too bad after all" gotta to look past what is on the outside and see the person for their overall worth or value to society.
I know about "chemistry and pheromones" but me being a bit more on the logical side, I don't have that part figured out yet. I know first impressions are not always a good indicator of future relationship satisfaction or compatibility, in same or opposite sex relationships.
Your guy losing weight, I hope he can do a lot more than before.
BTW, how is the Mexico living going?
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Post by saarinista on Oct 13, 2019 1:27:18 GMT -5
Handy you are definitely too concerned about backup funds, among other things I see you agonizing over, my friend! Here's my thing-cut offs are pointless to list because any sane person is looking at the whole package when evaluating a potential partner - not looking just for someone with certain measurements, under a certain weight, or who has a certain hairstyle. Different strokes for different folks. I will agree that EXTREME obesity is considered unattractive by most people. On the other hand, two obese people might find one another appealing. I also agree comb-overs are generally unattractive. No one is fooled. Other than that, most things can be worked out. High on my list of likes are: -intelligence -a slightly offbeat sense of humor -concern about social and world issues -a reasonable interest in good grooming (get a decent haircut now and then, be clean, wear clean and reasonably high quality clothes, and if you're poor go buy nice things at consignment stores) -an open mind, a desire to see different sides of issues and discuss them civilly -similar political views to mine (not exactly the same, perhaps, but not TOTALLY different) -some shared interests in hobbies and entertainment as well as a desire to share and learn new things -a desire to have reasonably creative and robust sex unless illness or death makes that impossible. At that point, I would hope medical intervention or creativity could restart sexual interaction, too. Well, except in the case of death. That's an insurmountable contraindication to sex for me. ☠️🤔 -a commitment to pursuing better than average mental and physical health. -a desire to have an active social life. -having dealt with any previous relationships so that an ex spouse is not trying to destroy new relationships moving forward -a strong desire for ME! I say just present your best self and get out there. I'm not sure if you're in a position to openly date because you're still married but if and when you are, just get out there and interact with women you find appealing and see how it goes.
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Post by Handy on Oct 13, 2019 2:14:01 GMT -5
That is a reasonable list and good example Saarinista.
I will say I started this thread more for other people's benefit but admit also to work over some of my own questions.
About me needing back-up plans, I agree I have several. I suppose the desire for back-up plans stems from childhood issues of doing without most of my younger years. I remember too vividly when the electricity was disconnected, going places for free/donated food, no shoes for about a month, depending on handouts at school lunches, and borrowing school supplies from other kids knowing I couldn't pay them back.
I am also the back up person for some relatives and friends. Maybe my concern about social and world issues like you, influences me to have or think about back-up plans.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 13, 2019 6:58:07 GMT -5
Handy, if you are seriously considering divorce, talk to a lawyer to find out how things probably would shake out for you. Otherwise any back up plans are mere speculation.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 13, 2019 14:32:02 GMT -5
Handy you should talk to a lawyer. How did you end up as everyone's back up plan? I'm sure a lot of us ask ourselves that question.
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Post by Handy on Oct 13, 2019 16:38:30 GMT -5
Why do I end up being some people's safety net? Because I lived a crappy life similar to what some people experience as a kid myself and I was off work due to medical issues for 9 months one time and 3 years another time. Some peers had similar issues and lost a lot of things. A few divorced. It wasn't a nice picture to witness.
Not having any debt except for the house and having my own savings got me through tough times. Maybe I relate too much to some close family members needing a little or some help.
At one time I was so anxious about seeing a lawyer it kept me almost frozen in my tracks. Now I think I could talk to a lawyer and half be OK. Right now I have to work on my 1 yr treatment plan regarding "DNA mismatch repair" and the issues it caused.
If I could snap my fingers and have some of the things I think about, I would be living alone and not have any major medical issues to work through. I can't pull that off right now.
What has changed for the better is people are coming to my aid without me asking for any help. One person said they would have done more for me in the past but I rejected help (nothing to do with my current issues) so they backed off. This person said I was too self sufficient.
I helped my daughter and grand kids a lot in the past and now they are helping me. My daughter works in the medical field and has been a wealth of information and lining up things to assist me I never heard about before.
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Post by baza on Oct 13, 2019 21:18:54 GMT -5
I was reading Mypaintbrush's thread about her dating experiences and frustrations. I also had in mind the many posts about ILIASM members ideas that dating is frustrating.
My questions are "where is your line on what is acceptable or just not worth the effort. I had age differences, weight, height and income mainly in mind.
I hear women say once a woman is past a certain age it is the men that have most of the advantages. IOW, women lose market value as they age. I think market value has more to do with a woman's physical condition and given so many men and women are heavier these days, weight seems to be a major factor when it comes to looks and a person's impressions. My idea is that age isn't as important to men in a similar male to female age bracket as a person's weight or some other personal characteristics.
I read a woman's dating site a few times and several woman said a date with man-boobs and or a beer-gut wouldn't make it past the first date. Some women ended the first date based on the guys excessive weight issues. Several women wanted a man to be (nn) inches taller than her height. Some women said the guy had to weigh (nn) pounds more than her.
On n the male insecurity side, how much income or lifestyle does a partner have to have?
Best make it clear that I am not dating, don't foresee a situation where I might be, and my past record in this endevour years ago was less than stellar. With that disclaimer, I offer the following. Quoting you here Brother Handy - "I had age differences, weight, height and income mainly in mind" - and I must say that none of these things figure prominently in my thinking about a potential partner. With a potential partner, I'm thinking of more esoteric qualities, like having a social conscience, having a few brains, a sense of humour, reliability, honesty, some interests that they're passionate about, curiosity. But here's where things fucked up for me in the past .... if I ran across such a woman embodying all these qualities I would've been so intimidated by the package I would have run away in the opposite direction fearing she'd be to smart to fall for me. |
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Post by Handy on Oct 13, 2019 21:52:56 GMT -5
Baza
I would have run away in the opposite direction fearing she'd be to smart to fall for me.
I might have some of those same fears but I also think as people age, they become more selective to the point of wanting to live alone MOST OF THE TIME.
Lets face it, some of us 65+ folks look more like newish babies with all of the wrinkles and fat deposits that go where they want to go rather than where most people consider shapely. Several men and women in my age group lost our butt curves and now have flatter butts to the point men have to wear suspenders because even with a belt, our pants slide down a little too much.
Just look at all the people going into Walmart or other very busy grocery stores and think as a scientist and get a glimpse of all of the people not considered to be in shape. You might soon think what happened to the just average healthy weight person, then add in all of the other features that might not be considered attractive.
I am not a "looks are all important" type of person or "someone has to have something really important" for me to be their friend. I was more or less wondering what others thought about what works for them in a long term relationship on the just friends level and a level that might lead to something eventually sexual/romantic.
OTH I see what many people (couples) that some of society would consider a 3 or 4 in the physically appealing and it looks like they are very happy together.
Back to one of my original ideas, it is health related issues rather than age that might cause a woman's and men's dating experiences to decline.
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