larry101
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Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 4, 2019 13:11:04 GMT -5
OK. So everyone here is in a similar boat. Both men and women. I'm not sure how well this suggestion applies to women, but assuming the relationship dynamics at play are similar, I don't see any reason applying some suggestions wouldnt help.
**grab a copy of "married man sex life" by athol kay.**
i cant recommend this enough. i see many posts on this forum that i could have written myself 10 yrs ago. now im not saying this book is gonna cure all your marital issues. if it did, i wouldnt be a member of this forum. but im 100% sure i would have had far less meaningful sex if not for this book. youll first learn why her desire has vanished. and then take steps to restart her engines. the beauty is, she doesnt need to participate. matter of fact, sharing the book with her is generally ill advised.
we all know mother nature didnt engineer marriage. she engineered a man to spread his seed far and wide. she engineered a woman to consume as many seeds as possible. natural selection at its lowest level. more sperm = better litter pick. problem is, once shes impregnated, her bodies desires change. after all, she cant effectively care for her young if she remains busy fucking all the hot alpha males. her chemistry now wants a beta male. hes the provider, the security, etc.
ok, ill let athol take it from there and leave you with this...
a week after i started making changes to myself and my approach to my wife, she came to me with a puzzled look and said, "whats different about you?" i shrugged my shoulders and never said a word. her BODY language indicated she liked the changes. Her WORDS indicated she didn't like the changes. i continued to stay on course. about 2-3 weeks later, i noticed my wife had been dropping subtle hints for days. she isnt an initiator so it was up to me to act. when i did, she literally couldnt tare my clothes off fast enough. now there are some gotchas. she will tell you she wants the caring, sensitive you. yeah, the one she wont fuck. its not her fault. its biology remember? this is where learning to balance both alpha/beta is a must!
dont assume this book suggest turning into a high alpha ahole, its all about alpha/beta balance and the appropriate times for each. nuff said, give it a shot
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 4, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -5
So you are saying you aren't in a SM after all and that you have discovered the magic bullet in this person(athol kay). Just a bit of mind control on your part and she is gushing like a fire hydrant?
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 4, 2019 20:35:08 GMT -5
I'm in a LOW sex marriage like most. 13 years of it. And like everything in our lives, there are ups and downs. Not to mention there are plenty of other incompatibilities that contribute to my situation. But as I mentioned this book (I have read many) definitely helped improve not only the quality of sex, but my overall happiness. My overall happiness was so dependent on her. My fixation on meeting what she "thought" she needed to improve her libido made me miserable. And this road of too much beta reduced her libido further. Now everones situation is unique, but my wifes "mind" wants security, trust, and all the other beta traits. Unfortunately, this isn't a recipe for the detached, primal sexual instincts of her "body". When I stopped focusing on the sex, when I stopped letting it affect my happiness, the desperation disappeared and the sex and intimicy improved.
No silver bullets. Nothing is easy. But trying hard at the wrong things was making things worse. Of all the books I read, this one helped the most.
Also, it might sound like I turned into an a hole and stopped providing security, trust, etc. But that is simply not the case. I merely stopped smothering her in the beta traits by injecting alpha traits. I have never cheated on my wife and always provided for our family.
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Post by baza on Jun 4, 2019 20:56:40 GMT -5
Is your missus, of her own volition and motivation, devouring relationship books like you have been Brother larry101 ? Is she, like you, leaving no stone unturned in hot pursuit of a resolution to the problem ? Is she as committed as you ? Or are you pretty much doing the "why chasing" solo ? |
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 4, 2019 21:39:03 GMT -5
Is your missus, of her own volition and motivation, devouring relationship books like you have been Brother larry101 ? Is she, like you, leaving no stone unturned in hot pursuit of a resolution to the problem ? Is she as committed as you ? Or are you pretty much doing the "why chasing" solo ? Unfortunately, she never adopted this approach. Naturally, from her perspective , as the low sex partner, our sex life isn't in such a dire state. However, she does put forth "some" effort in other ways. For instance, she recognized regular exercise increases her overall libido somewhat and tries to make time for it. Open communication isn't one of her strengths which impacts our attempts to approach this together. |
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Post by baza on Jun 4, 2019 22:13:10 GMT -5
It would seem then, that you can rule out her motivation as being based on being "what's good for the relationship".
It is probable that her motivation is - like most refusers - "what's good for her"
Now if she sees staying married to you as being in her longer term best interests, you might have some leverage there.
Say if there was a credible threat to her staying married to you.
If her continued actions were producing a real risk of the marriage ending, that might be a powerful motivator.
The trouble with that is that there is no such credible risk .... is there ?
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 4, 2019 23:27:51 GMT -5
It would seem then, that you can rule out her motivation as being based on being "what's good for the relationship". It is probable that her motivation is - like most refusers - "what's good for her" Now if she sees staying married to you as being in her longer term best interests, you might have some leverage there. Say if there was a credible threat to her staying married to you. If her continued actions were producing a real risk of the marriage ending, that might be a powerful motivator. The trouble with that is that there is no such credible risk .... is there ? She is definitely only concerned about what's good for her. And this includes remaining in the marriage long term. I'm pretty confident of her long term intentions. Along with day to day indicators, She fits the dependent personality disorder like a glove. With a healthy dose of narcissistic behavior. These personality traits reaffirm her strong desire to avoid any risk of being alone. on the other hand, I exhibit obsessive compulsive behavior along with avoidance. I honestly feel the avoidance is a result of our communication challenges as I never used to avoid confrontation. She hates confrontation and, generally speaking, never owns up to any role in our problems. Even my very careful approach of avoiding finger pointing proved pretty useless. So at some point, I did sorta stop wasting my breath. The OCD was God given and like any extreme traits, certainly causes some strains in our marriage. What would you consider credible risk besides the obvious ultimatum? |
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Post by baza on Jun 5, 2019 1:57:35 GMT -5
Well Brother larry101 , the critical element to a credible risk is what you are prepared to follow through with. What are you currently prepared to do ? Back in the day when my missus was at her worst, I sat her down one night, eyeballed her and said something along the lines - "this can't go on. You have got to get your shit together and once you have we are going to have a serious discussion about our future, but until then I'm here for you"Do you see the HUGE error I made there ? As my counsellor at the time said - "where is her motivation to address her issues given that you have effectively told her you'll be there for her until she does ? It is actually a powerful incentive for her NOT to address her issues"
So my *threat* lacked a clear consequence, and it lacked a deadline. Unsurprisingly, it was effen useless. It had no credibility. (mind you, at the time I thought it was a brilliant bit of work on my part, caring, empathetic and altogether terrific) So Brother larry101 , whatever you might consider, you have to be prepared to do it and it has to have a clear consequence and a deadline if you want it to be credible. Just to depress you further, I'll mention this. I've been exposed to 10 years of this group and its predecessor on The Experience Project. I have never seen an ILIASM marriage get resolved (either way) without the marriage being put on the line. Initially,start off small. An example .... you might say to your missus, "I want you to see a counsellor about your assorted issues and until such time as you do, we are on room mate status". But whatever you might say you then have to do. Otherwise your cred is shred, and you go backwards by months. And, even these "minor" ultimatums you might try have a habit of escalating out of control and all of a sudden you are arguing about your appalling behaviour at her Sisters birthday party in February 2001. Keep on point would be another suggestion. |
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 5, 2019 9:27:12 GMT -5
Appreciate examples and warnings. Your ability to pave the road ahead yet allow me to choose the direction to proceed at the road forks is awesome.
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 5, 2019 12:46:57 GMT -5
Appreciate examples and warnings. Your ability to pave the road ahead yet allow me to choose the direction to proceed at the road forks is awesome. FYI, spin off thread for ultimatums was created iliasm.org/thread/5264/ultimatum |
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Post by Handy on Jun 5, 2019 19:47:55 GMT -5
I don't know how well the ideas in "married man sex life" by Athol Kay" wash out but another book for a man to read would be "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Robert A. Glover. The complete book is on the web so you do not have to buyt it. archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy |
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 6, 2019 2:25:21 GMT -5
I skimmed over this and its a similar approach to athols book. I started rereading "married man" last night to brush up again. First read was many years ago and my natural beta traits have slowly overwhelmed alpha again. About 5 chapters in and man I had forgotten how on point these techniques are. Time for some re-balancing!
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Post by lessingham on Jun 16, 2019 16:31:40 GMT -5
I hate all this alpha male crap. It is based on hareem animals with competition for multiple female groups.
Interesting case study. One group of scientists did a DNA map of chimp offsprings and discovered the alpha male was not the daddy of as many kids as he thought he was. As with humans, it's a wise child that knows its own father!
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larry101
Junior Member
Posts: 45
Age Range: 41-45
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Post by larry101 on Jun 24, 2019 14:57:00 GMT -5
You are certainly entitled to an opinion. Just make sure it's an educated one  I am going to start a separate thread Journaling my experiences with this approach. You might want to skip it. |
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I am going to start a separate thread Journaling my experiences with this approach. You might want to skip it.