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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 11:15:09 GMT -5
This is a sidebar issue but it's one that's been bothering me lately and I'm asking for straightforward feedback and advice.
We have a whiteboard in our house where we put "to-do's". My wife freely puts items on my list, some of them fairly substantial and she would characterize them as just home maintenance items that we need to do and home maintenance is part of what I do.
Except, I never put anything on her side of the board and she doesn't work outside the home. She and some friends were talking about another friend's husband who, horror of horrors, makes his wife to-do lists. "What an asshole" they say. Now, I know the guy and he is an asshole but my wife does to-do's for me all the time and no one finds that to be a problem.
Am I just being unreasonable?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 12:19:11 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the asshole, but my first thought was write on there "hug your husband" or something to that effect. Or you could start off simpler and write her a thank you for what she may have done around the house that day that helped you. Maybe a little kindness toward her (without asking for anything) may (after a while) garner a positive response when you did feel ballsy enough to post a personal request. IDK ... just random thoughts here.
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Post by baza on Dec 19, 2018 16:30:37 GMT -5
In my ILIASM deal there was no "to do list" in play. Yet in my deal with the delectable Ms enna, there is - in the form of a whiteboard - and we both put reminders on it (mainly for ourselves) about appointments and suchlike.
But sometimes messages such as "I want a root" get put on the whiteboard (they get actioned pretty quickly) and sometimes I exercise my artistic side by drawing porno type stuff on it. What with Xmas looming, the board is pretty full so there's no room for filthy drawings or other such levity at the moment.
Incidently, I have trouble holding any more than about 4 things in my head at any given time so I like the whiteboard.
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Post by hopingforachange on Dec 19, 2018 16:56:15 GMT -5
I'd noticably erase something in your to-do list, and if she says something about you erasing from the list, then write "enthusiastically fuck your husband."
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 19, 2018 17:36:28 GMT -5
Hmm. This doesn’t seem black and white to me.
If I put routine tasks like “mop floors” and “clean kitchen” on the list I wouldn’t expect that to go over well (as in, playing like her supervisor). However, “order water filter refill” shouldn’t be a big deal.
But yeah, we have access to each other’s personal calendars on Google, and I’ve tried adding fun euphemisms on her calendar for sexy time. They got deleted or ignored.
I’m reminded of this snip. The pointy-haired boss is much more diligent...
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Post by csl on Dec 19, 2018 17:49:17 GMT -5
I'd noticably erase something in your to-do list, and if she says something about you erasing from the list, then write "enthusiastically fuck your husband." I like the idea of drawing a line through it, myself. Even better, transfer the item to her to-do list. (I'd be interested in seeing where that would lead.)
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 19, 2018 22:54:25 GMT -5
I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I went through the white board problem. The entire family had chores on it except for one person. Guess who that was? The W who made up the board. More manipulative controlling.
Others in the family noticed this as well. When confronted about it, here came the denial, avoidance and reversal, through a litney of victim playing "I work all day" and other excusses.
The disrespect for the work that the other family members did was horrible. It was time to level the playing field. To knock someone off there pedestal.
Here's a suggestion. Put both your names on them. Tell her " I want you to do these with me. I want to spend quality time with you, I want your company, I want you to assist me, lets do these together, you can help me". ( Not a bad example for the rest of the family either).
Sadly I am expecting her to deny your request and avoid it. Another nail in the coffin. You are simply asking for fair treatment. If I can do it so can you. Who's going to do these things when you are not there ( divorce)? Maybe someone needs to put on her big girl panties and realize that you are setting boundaries?
Never mind what her friends think, what do you want? AND what do you have to say about it? Stop doing all the giving and start receiving (taking).
PS: Maybe... Maybe some of the things she does do, could be put on her list so others can see that she helps out too?
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Post by baza on Dec 19, 2018 23:13:16 GMT -5
Maybe I missed the point earlier. Is this question actually about the fair division of labour in the household ?
If so, I can say that there was no whiteboard in my ILIASM deal.
The division of household labour was done arbitarily by my missus by the simple expedient of her not doing anything she didn't feel like doing. So, if I wanted a clean shirt and she hadn't felt like doing the washing, then I would have to organise my own shirt by doing the washing. If I felt like eating, but she didn't feel like cooking, then I would have to cook.
If I was on holidays, then she'd not feel like taking the kids to school, and I'd get that gig.
I figure you get the idea.
However, it wasn't all bad. You see, by picking up the slack of what she didn't feel like doing, I became a pretty good shopper, a pretty handy cook, a passable cleaner upper, dishwasher stacker, laundry bloke etc etc etc. All of these things were very handy skills to have when I left. So in some ways, she did me a favour.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 12:12:20 GMT -5
I've given this some further thought and the "to-do" list isn't the problem itself. The issue is that our life is JUST the to-do list. I recall reading once about how much time a "healthy couple" spends talking about various things; hopes and dreams, daily logistics, etc. We spend zero time talking about anything other than our college-age children and life logistics. Zero.
The issue is intimacy avoidance and now that it's gone on so long, that's just my life. She'll do anything to avoid any situation that feels remotely like intimacy. I understand my role on it, given the decades of wanting to address issues that would involve some level of intimacy just to discuss. She can't do it, it almost appears to be physically painful. So, I stopped.
But now my resentment is back and I thought I had ditched it for good. No expectation of sex = no resentment right? Wrong. I'm resentful that she's asking so much of me on so many levels and the one thing or things that would fill my soul (a hug, a touch on the shoulder, holding hands) are denied.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 20, 2018 13:17:09 GMT -5
@tooyoungtobeold2, I don’t know about you, but when things are on good terms I’m happy to do tasks (especially together), even going above-and-beyond. But when there’s friction or no give-and-take (or lack of appreciation for what does get done), why would I prioritize someone else’s interests over my own when my time is limited?
I think a to-do list can become symbolic - even a reflection of the relationship’s dynamic. Discontent, expectations, disappointments, even hopelessness.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 20, 2018 13:29:49 GMT -5
I've given this some further thought and the "to-do" list isn't the problem itself. The issue is that our life is JUST the to-do list. I recall reading once about how much time a "healthy couple" spends talking about various things; hopes and dreams, daily logistics, etc. We spend zero time talking about anything other than our college-age children and life logistics. Zero. The issue is intimacy avoidance and now that it's gone on so long, that's just my life. She'll do anything to avoid any situation that feels remotely like intimacy. I understand my role on it, given the decades of wanting to address issues that would involve some level of intimacy just to discuss. She can't do it, it almost appears to be physically painful. So, I stopped. But now my resentment is back and I thought I had ditched it for good. No expectation of sex = no resentment right? Wrong. I'm resentful that she's asking so much of me on so many levels and the one thing or things that would fill my soul (a hug, a touch on the shoulder, holding hands) are denied. What you described sounds like her "love language" is receiving Acts of service. Your love language is receiving "physical touch". The more and more acts of service she can pile on you the more she can avoid any physical touch. That's why I suggested you ask her to work beside you, be next to you, hand you things, etc... Sadly she is avoiding any opportunity for you to have one on one time with her, and bring up intimacy. If she helped and was next to you ,get ready for non stop conversation about college children and life logics. It was the same way in my relationship ,time for dinners, eating out, friends over, camping trips, etc... all centered around doing for ,and discussing the children, or grandpa, the relationship was shoved on the back burner of a broken stove! Been there. ( Also the more you do , the more it becomes your everyday regular chore. it's no longer seen as " an act of service", that would require her submitting and having to be vulnerable to your need, 'physical touch' she will avoid that.)
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Post by sadkat on Dec 20, 2018 14:59:52 GMT -5
I’m going to play the “bad gal” here. To me, a white board is essentially a chore list. Am I mistaken? If that’s the case, why on earth would you want to put “love your husband “ or “fuck your wife” on the whiteboard? Do you want these things to be chores??? Really?!! I understand the frustration and resentment of doing all these things for your spouse and not getting any affection in return. I felt them for many years. Bottom line, though, my spouse does not desire me so it won’t matter how many things I do for him. I do what I want on the chore list and leave the things I don’t want to do. That’s my choice and I practice that choice daily. We don’t have a whiteboard- my h either does what needs to be done around the house or he doesn’t- it’s as simple as that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 15:55:48 GMT -5
I’m going to play the “bad gal” here. To me, a white board is essentially a chore list. Am I mistaken? If that’s the case, why on earth would you want to put “love your husband “ or “fuck your wife” on the whiteboard? Do you want these things to be chores??? Really?!! I understand the frustration and resentment of doing all these things for your spouse and not getting any affection in return. I felt them for many years. Bottom line, though, my spouse does not desire me so it won’t matter how many things I do for him. I do what I want on the chore list and leave the things I don’t want to do. That’s my choice and I practice that choice daily. We don’t have a whiteboard- my h either does what needs to be done around the house or he doesn’t- it’s as simple as that. I appreciate the suggestion someone made about putting something like this on the whiteboard as an opener to dialogue or intimacy. I wouldn't do it because it would fall flat in a number of ways with my wife but my wife's aversion to intimacy is much stronger than something cute and small breaking the ice a little. Un-ironically, she does view intimacy or sex as a chore but would bristle badly at my bringing it up that way. I'm not high on the "hug me, need me" scale but she's a zero which does leave a gap. This whiteboard isn't our daily chore list, it's the bigger list of things to accomplish beyond daily chores. I fear it's become a tool for avoiding intimacy. I also fear the basic problem is that I still give a shit, which I thought I didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 21:29:01 GMT -5
I've given this some further thought and the "to-do" list isn't the problem itself. The issue is that our life is JUST the to-do list. I recall reading once about how much time a "healthy couple" spends talking about various things; hopes and dreams, daily logistics, etc. We spend zero time talking about anything other than our college-age children and life logistics. Zero. The issue is intimacy avoidance and now that it's gone on so long, that's just my life. She'll do anything to avoid any situation that feels remotely like intimacy. I understand my role on it, given the decades of wanting to address issues that would involve some level of intimacy just to discuss. She can't do it, it almost appears to be physically painful. So, I stopped. But now my resentment is back and I thought I had ditched it for good. No expectation of sex = no resentment right? Wrong. I'm resentful that she's asking so much of me on so many levels and the one thing or things that would fill my soul (a hug, a touch on the shoulder, holding hands) are denied. @tooyoung ... I really relate to the not talking about anything but the kids part. Seems that's it here, too. Who did what, who's in trouble, who needs what, who did good ... oh, and what my husband's work day was like. Then, nothing. Maybe 40 seconds of what my day was about and that's it. I feel so much more connected with him after a good conversation. Problem is, the only real deep conversations we have are usually after a fight. He did finally realize something about himself this past weekend after our last blow up, something I'd already suspected about him to be fact. That realization came during our deep conversation. That realization may be something that will help us with some of our issues. Maybe one day he will see those types of conversations are good and good things come from them ... not the least of which is a smile on his wife's face as she genuinely feels closer to him and happier than before the conversation started.
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Post by flashjohn on Dec 28, 2018 15:08:46 GMT -5
This is a sidebar issue but it's one that's been bothering me lately and I'm asking for straightforward feedback and advice. We have a whiteboard in our house where we put "to-do's". My wife freely puts items on my list, some of them fairly substantial and she would characterize them as just home maintenance items that we need to do and home maintenance is part of what I do. Except, I never put anything on her side of the board and she doesn't work outside the home. She and some friends were talking about another friend's husband who, horror of horrors, makes his wife to-do lists. "What an asshole" they say. Now, I know the guy and he is an asshole but my wife does to-do's for me all the time and no one finds that to be a problem. Am I just being unreasonable? Take the board down, go outside with it, set it up on two sawhorses, and demolish it with an axe. If your refuser complains, tell her that after she has fucked you every single day for a year, you will consider putting it back up. Then if she says another word about it, file for divorce.
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