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Post by DryCreek on Dec 15, 2018 11:34:09 GMT -5
I had dinner last night with a friend who pulled the plug on his sexless marriage after 14 years. He found out during the divorce that sex had dried up in Year 2 because she misinterpreted a compliment he gave her.
Instead of addressing it then or even later, and then by refusing to answer when he would ask, she allowed it to permanently poison her attitude toward intimacy with him.
One sentence. Years of life wasted because someone refused to have an awkward conversation. And she never got the children she hoped for.
If I’ve learned nothing else, it’s that we need to become comfortable facing the uncomfortable. Boldly shining the light into corners, dragging the elephants to the center of the room, and discussing them shamelessly. It takes two people to do this; make sure you’re one of them.
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Post by mescaline on Dec 15, 2018 12:11:29 GMT -5
You're so right DC, as uncomfortable as it may be the difficult conversations need to be had. I've been guilty of conflict avoidance for much of my 40+ years. I'm conscious it is a failing and one I'm making efforts to address. It's difficult but proving successful in every sphere of my life, bar my marriage.
No one needs to guess the reason for this though!
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Post by baza on Dec 15, 2018 16:14:38 GMT -5
I remember only too well how this used to work out in my ILIASM deal - just as you say Brother DryCreek . It would go something like this - #1 - my missus would be in a foul mood so I would think "this is not the time to raise the issue, best I leave it until she seems a bit more approachable" #2 - my missus would be in an approachable mood so I would think "it's nice to have a bit of calmness happening so this is not the time to raise the issue lest it plunges her back into a foul mood" So in my own way, I was as avoidant as she was. It was way harder to kick that habit than I ever imagined it would be. That bit where you refer to resolution taking two people shamelessly shining light on the elephant, and your advice to "make sure YOU are one of those two people" - I must admit that back in the day, I was NOT one of those two people.
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Post by mescaline on Dec 15, 2018 16:22:53 GMT -5
If there are two good things to come out of my SM, they are my kids and my own expanding capacity for self awareness. I see my strengths, but also my weaknesses in stark clarity. The situation I find myself in is driving the changes I'm making.
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 15, 2018 17:10:42 GMT -5
I remember only too well how this used to work out in my ILIASM deal - just as you say Brother DryCreek . It would go something like this - #1 - my missus would be in a foul mood so I would think "this is not the time to raise the issue, best I leave it until she seems a bit more approachable" #2 - my missus would be in an approachable mood so I would think "it's nice to have a bit of calmness happening so this is not the time to raise the issue lest it plunges her back into a foul mood" So in my own way, I was as avoidant as she was. It was way harder to kick that habit than I ever imagined it would be. That bit where you refer to resolution taking two people shamelessly shining light on the elephant, and your advice to "make sure YOU are one of those two people" - I must admit that back in the day, I was NOT one of those two people. Yes. I remember I did not want to disrupt the peace in our household. But the cost of that was my self-esteem and overall happiness. It was only when it started becoming unbearable for me did I raise the issue more and more. And that’s when I came to realize the issue was not solvable. If I hadn’t reached that point we likely could have gone on like that forever because he certainly wasn’t going to bring it up; he had the marriage he wanted!
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Post by isthisit on Dec 15, 2018 17:27:00 GMT -5
@choosinghappy I could have written every word of that. You have a window into my mind.
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Post by solodriver on Dec 15, 2018 18:50:26 GMT -5
. It takes two people to do this; make sure you’re one of them. But if the other chooses to not discuss, forgive and/or forget the misunderstanding or issue they are having it won't make any difference. A few people on here have had that happen to them, I'm thinking of choosinghappy in particular, but there are others who have been the one to make the effort with no success. (myself included)
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Post by solodriver on Dec 15, 2018 19:01:06 GMT -5
You're so right DC, as uncomfortable as it may be the difficult conversations need to be had. I've been guilty of conflict avoidance for much of my 40+ years. I'm conscious it is a failing and one I'm making efforts to address. It's difficult but proving successful in every sphere of my life, bar my marriage. No one needs to guess the reason for this though! Conflict avoidance was also the reason I didn't approach my wife sooner. We had such a good (I thought, but I could be wrong) sex life for a while and I thought maybe she would have missed it as much as I and brought it up. After a while I brought the problem up but was shut down/ignored each time. Finally she said she wasn't going to have sex anymore because of being in menopause. When I tried to bring up options, I was shut down and told "No" each time.
So I did bring up the issue but she chose not to discuss it.
That's why I'm working my exit plan and will execute it when everything is ready.
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Post by tirefire on Dec 15, 2018 21:00:02 GMT -5
baza - It would go something like this - #1 - my missus would be in a foul mood so I would think "this is not the time to raise the issue, best I leave it until she seems a bit more approachable" #2 - my missus would be in an approachable mood so I would think "it's nice to have a bit of calmness happening so this is not the time to raise the issue lest it plunges her back into a foul mood" Omg, this. You just described at least 15 years of my marriage. It helps to know I'm not the only one.
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Post by sadkat on Dec 15, 2018 23:14:30 GMT -5
Wow! That is so sad! It does take two to shine the light on the elephants in the room. But, it also takes a whole lot of trust in one another. Something I lost early on in my relationship with my h.
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 15, 2018 23:49:47 GMT -5
Really sad. What a petty woman with poor communication skills.
Darwin awards are awarded every year to people that take themselves out of the gene pool. Most nominees are young males whose final words are, "hold me beer and watch this." Sometimes a winner gets it even though he lives because he removes his family jewels while entertaining his friends.
This woman might not be so dramatic, but the result of her stupidity still qualifies her if she is now in menopause.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 2:05:44 GMT -5
I relate to much of this .... don't rock the boat if he is in a bad mood... don't rock the boat if he is in a good mood. BUT I've also learned there is no remote possibility of anything changing if I don't open my mouth and say what I need. I believe the saying is, if you never ask for what you want, the answer will always be no. It may be "no" anyway, but is guaranteed to be so if I can't advocate for myself. Too many nights of silence is MY part of the current state of my marriage. Little by little, speaking up gets easier. Easy? No. But easier as my confidence grows and I see I've nothing left to lose. If the whole thing crashes and burns, at least I know I tried to put out the fire and didn't just stand by silently letting it burn.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 16, 2018 7:40:22 GMT -5
I was also pretty conflict-avoidant in my marriage. Weird thing, I wasn’t that way in other areas.
I knew that growing up and being adult is an uncomfortable prospect (for me). Many times, I would ‘adult’ anyway.
In my marriage, I often tried. I would bring up our sex life. We would have the uncomfortable talk. He would ‘change’ - that is, reset. I would journal. It would erode eventually again.
In the year that I ended up divorcing, I re-read all my journals. Start to finish, these notebooks covered over 30 years. I didn’t write every day. But when I read the last one, that covered 17 years of marriage... I finally could not deny this issue to myself. I had initiated every convo about our sex life. My journal skipped most of the OKtime. I could see the real pattern: first every few years we addressed it, eventually a few times a year we addressed it.
I saw. Clearly. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And every time I thought it changed, it was actually temporary. I had lots more talks with him that final year. He tried. It still sucked when he was trying vs not trying. I had to just forgive his ineptitude and leave.
I initiated the divorce just like I had initiated all of the other uncomfortable adult things we had gone through. I don’t know why his muted existing is ok for him. Doesn’t matter. I want to live with zest & gusto. Even when that’s uncomfortable.
Current BF is better at the uncomfortable “growth discussions” than I am. I try to learn from him on this point. It’s nice to have a partner who encourages these discussions AND participates when they’re happening. I’m learning a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 9:46:12 GMT -5
I was also pretty conflict-avoidant in my marriage. Weird thing, I wasn’t that way in other areas. I knew that growing up and being adult is an uncomfortable prospect (for me). Many times, I would ‘adult’ anyway. In my marriage, I often tried. I would bring up our sex life. We would have the uncomfortable talk. He would ‘change’ - that is, reset. I would journal. It would erode eventually again. In the year that I ended up divorcing, I re-read all my journals. Start to finish, these notebooks covered over 30 years. I didn’t write every day. But when I read the last one, that covered 17 years of marriage... I finally could not deny this issue to myself. I had initiated every convo about our sex life. My journal skipped most of the OKtime. I could see the real pattern: first every few years we addressed it, eventually a few times a year we addressed it. I saw. Clearly. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And every time I thought it changed, it was actually temporary. I had lots more talks with him that final year. He tried. It still sucked when he was trying vs not trying. I had to just forgive his ineptitude and leave. I initiated the divorce just like I had initiated all of the other uncomfortable adult things we had gone through. I don’t know why his muted existing is ok for him. Doesn’t matter. I want to live with zest & gusto. Even when that’s uncomfortable. Current BF is better at the uncomfortable “growth discussions” than I am. I try to learn from him on this point. It’s nice to have a partner who encourages these discussions AND participates when they’re happening. I’m learning a lot. @ grantgreek ... consistency is truly key. After a period of time, we all come to our breaking point if there is no real and genuine turnaround. Until then, it seems many of us just keep trying ... and hoping. I've always been the one making the hard decisions. Made that decision in ending my 1st marriage and, if #2 fails, I'm sure it will be who pulls the plug, too. I'm glad your new relationship seems healthier and you've no regrets on your decision to make that leap of faith.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 17, 2018 8:51:47 GMT -5
"Because she misinterpreted a compliment he gave her"--My years of reading ( and own experience) tells me there's a whole lot more to that story than she ( the refuser) will ever want to admit to. To herself or anyone else.
This is where the lack of communication comes in, and the deceptive manipulation begins.
It takes BOTH people to honestly communicate. That requires submitting, giving, and being able to give some control to another. To risk being vulnerable by placing trust in another.
To agree to disagree, while moving forward in a way that both are receiving.
Something many of our partners will never be capable of.
I am glad your friend is pressing on, and moving forward! ( Here's to new beginnings!)
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