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Post by flashjohn on Sept 5, 2018 10:53:55 GMT -5
I wasn't sure where in our threads to write but because of another post, I thought here.... My husband came in and began talking to me. He asked me a bunch of questions and then twisted my answers. This is a common tactic of his and even though I know that, it doesn't stop the feelings that follow. He likes to make me feel bad. Mostly I think he maneuvers me into feeling bad so i will do whatever task he wants done. I dont want to hear anyone say I am in charge of my feelings. I know thats true but I am trying to deal with psychological warfare on an ongoing basis. I occasionally wonder if the lack of sex started because he found power in refusing me. I took my power back in that area and we haven't had sex in 5 years. But this emotional stuff is draining me. I am completely shut down at the moment. How does one survive.... Isnt it sad that our marriage turns into something to survive? Frankly I don't know if I can make it. My refuser would do this a lot as well. Many of her questions were leading, such as, "This is the right way, isn't it?" or "The kids should act this way, right?" My personal favorite was when she told me that if she felt really strongly about something, I should always agree.
The best way I found to respond to this kind of thing was to ask another question. If she said, "Why are you doing X?" I would respond, "Why does it matter?" Then she would ask something else, and I would keep on. I could fire off questions as long as she could. Eventually, she would get tired and stop.
My opinion is that a person like this is just being very controlling. A normal person ask questions to gain information or understanding. It sounds to be that your H just asks you questions to control you or make you feel foolish.
I handled this kind of behavior by detaching. I did not offer any information or meaningfully engage in conversation which I knew was going nowhere.
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 5, 2018 12:34:37 GMT -5
I wasn't sure where in our threads to write but because of another post, I thought here.... My husband came in and began talking to me. He asked me a bunch of questions and then twisted my answers. This is a common tactic of his and even though I know that, it doesn't stop the feelings that follow. He likes to make me feel bad. Mostly I think he maneuvers me into feeling bad so i will do whatever task he wants done. I dont want to hear anyone say I am in charge of my feelings. I know thats true but I am trying to deal with psychological warfare on an ongoing basis. I occasionally wonder if the lack of sex started because he found power in refusing me. I took my power back in that area and we haven't had sex in 5 years. But this emotional stuff is draining me. I am completely shut down at the moment. How does one survive.... Isnt it sad that our marriage turns into something to survive? Frankly I don't know if I can make it. My refuser would do this a lot as well. Many of her questions were leading, such as, "This is the right way, isn't it?" or "The kids should act this way, right?" My personal favorite was when she told me that if she felt really strongly about something, I should always agree.
The best way I found to respond to this kind of thing was to ask another question. If she said, "Why are you doing X?" I would respond, "Why does it matter?" Then she would ask something else, and I would keep on. I could fire off questions as long as she could. Eventually, she would get tired and stop.
My opinion is that a person like this is just being very controlling. A normal person ask questions to gain information or understanding. It sounds to be that your H just asks you questions to control you or make you feel foolish.
I handled this kind of behavior by detaching. I did not offer any information or meaningfully engage in conversation which I knew was going nowhere.
I completely agree with you. My H usually asks a question to set the stage for his real agenda. I am so fucking annoyed by it I cant begin to tell you. I remember years ago fighting and yelling at him "when I ask a question that's all it is, a question." That was when I began to see that his question was never a question. I now ask why instead of answering unless like a dunder head I forget and talk to him like a normal human which I invariably regret! |
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Post by flashjohn on Sept 6, 2018 10:04:48 GMT -5
I completely agree with you. My H usually asks a question to set the stage for his real agenda. I am so fucking annoyed by it I cant begin to tell you. I remember years ago fighting and yelling at him "when I ask a question that's all it is, a question." That was when I began to see that his question was never a question. I now ask why instead of answering unless like a dunder head I forget and talk to him like a normal human which I invariably regret! I was able to stay so long by never letting my guard down. I slept with one eye open, figuratively. But like you, I would sometimes forget and try to interact with her as if she was a person who really loved me.
But for the last 7-8 years, I learned that a question from her was NEVER a question. She was always angling for something. What was harder was not allowing myself to believe that anything nice she did was just being nice. She ALWAYS was setting me up for something.
My advice for staying is to do just that. Never let your guard down. He is always looking for a way to make you the villain and him the hero. Don't fall into his trap.
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muzack
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Post by muzack on Sept 6, 2018 22:06:10 GMT -5
Kinda like how southern women will say “Well, bless your heart” when they really mean “You f’ing asshole”. I always translated it more as "You mean well, but you're a dumbass." |
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Post by Caris on Sept 11, 2018 19:50:08 GMT -5
I think it’s absurd when some say we are in charge of our feelings. No, we are not. We feel what we feel, how we react to our feelings may be another matter, but if you are hurting emotionally, then you are hurting emotionally, regardless of why. Just a pet peeve of mine, so had to say it.
He’s playing “mind games” with you. It will destroy you if it continues. You won’t even know you are destroyed, until years or decades later, but it will alter you, and not for your best. If there is one instance when I truly advocate leaving, It’s when this toxic mental abuse is at play (or physical abuse too, of course).
I know what I’m talking about, and the fall out is dreadful. It takes years to recover, and I’m not sure you recover fully, but it can get better with time and good therapy. You need to be away from this toxicity.
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Post by elkclan2 on Sept 12, 2018 11:08:19 GMT -5
I am a Southern woman and "bless your heart" a lot less 'fuck off' and more a "well you really are an idiot so what did you expect, but I still feel a bit sorry for you" Anyway - I totally agree with you Caris when people are being deliberately hurtful then it's kind of 'victim blaming' to say you're in charge of your own feelings... Yuck. If someone is trying to hurt you then why SHOULDN'T you feel hurt? What we are in charge of is our behaviours. If we respond to mental and verbal abuse in a way that lets us down - that's beneath our own standards - then we're doubly hurt. (hope it's ok I posted here - I'm defo in the 'leave' camp) |
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 14, 2018 10:15:54 GMT -5
A good few years back now, when I was in one of my more desperate fix it modes I found myself reading a self help book, something about stopping your devorce I think, the name's not terribly important. I never did get far into reading it, I stopped when I realised if it was only me going to be working on fixing things it would be a waste of effort and doomed to failure. The point of this whole story is the other thing I took from my reading of that book it was a simple question. Why are you fighting? I understand your reasons for staying from much of what you've written before and I'm not intending to question or second guess them or you in any way. I'm not talking about that. I'm asking seriously, why are you fighting? I understand at times they get a rise out of us by what they say, manipulate, infuriate, gas light, demish, deny and outrite lie, ... but we know this. Are you fighting because you want to prove him wrong or expose the his hyprocracy? or to convince yourself of the righteousness of your own position, all undoubtedly true, but whatever the reason, does it matter? (Sounds like why chasing in a sm doesn't it). Is it working for you? I know it didn't work for me. Nor did the various passive agressive responses, vitriolic reactions or tacit acts of intimate agression i would regularly perform to vent my spleen. My suggestion to try (& only if you feel it is safe to do so) is to lean into the fight rather than take on a defensive posture. What do I mean? Just stop fighting. Agree with him. Yes even when he's wrong, perhaps most importantly when he is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt utterly and undoubtedly wrong. I know the following is nothing akin to your situation or experience instead it's intended to illustrate the principle. To take the heat out of an agrument, stop fighting and agree with your "opponent". "You just want to divorce me so you can go f*** some d**** w*** don't you!" was part of one of my wifes more explative ridden diatribes that has been seared into my memory (yes I know she can have quite the turn of phrase, although in all fairness I'm no slouch in that department either). Normally I would have risen to the bait, but that time instead of fighting arguing or denying her accusation I went for it and agreed with her. What did I have to loose? Right? I responded, Well my first choice was to stay married to the mother of my children and have sex with her but since that doesnt seem to be an option you're inteterested in being part of I will certainly divorce you before I engage in sex with anyone else paid or unpaid. Stoney silence and a lengthy death stare ensued. "See! I was right" Yes, yes you are. More silence... This is no more a solution than any other tactic suggested here merely another alternative tool that may sometimes be useful, or not as the case may be. At the very least you may get to see that look on his face where he is at a complete loss for how to respond to your agreeing with him when he was looking for a fight. You are very skilled at agreeing and I see your point. I like your approach. I will have to work on being a quicker thinker but perhaps just a "yes, your right", might still do the trick. I find that I am often in an argument before I knew it began. My husband thrives from the energy produced from these interactions but I am beyond exhausted from them. In some ways I have lost I will to fight and in others I a. completely outraged before I even understand what happened. Not sure if that makes sense or not. Anyways, your approach has merit. |
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 14, 2018 10:22:07 GMT -5
I am married to a Southern man. I can tell you the skillset is not trained out of the south. Sometimes I would rather be punched in the face than deal with this polite meanness that I don't understand. Its not how I was raised at all. I am a Southern woman and "bless your heart" a lot less 'fuck off' and more a "well you really are an idiot so what did you expect, but I still feel a bit sorry for you" Anyway - I totally agree with you Caris when people are being deliberately hurtful then it's kind of 'victim blaming' to say you're in charge of your own feelings... Yuck. If someone is trying to hurt you then why SHOULDN'T you feel hurt? What we are in charge of is our behaviours. If we respond to mental and verbal abuse in a way that lets us down - that's beneath our own standards - then we're doubly hurt. (hope it's ok I posted here - I'm defo in the 'leave' camp) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 10:22:16 GMT -5
To take the heat out of an agrument, stop fighting and agree with your "opponent". "You just want to divorce me so you can go f*** some d**** w*** don't you!" was part of one of my wifes more explative ridden diatribes that has been seared into my memory (yes I know she can have quite the turn of phrase, although in all fairness I'm no slouch in that department either). Normally I would have risen to the bait, but that time instead of fighting arguing or denying her accusation I went for it and agreed with her. What did I have to loose? Right? I responded, Well my first choice was to stay married to the mother of my children and have sex with her but since that doesnt seem to be an option you're inteterested in being part of I will certainly divorce you before I engage in sex with anyone else paid or unpaid. Stoney silence and a lengthy death stare ensued. "See! I was right" Yes, yes you are. More silence... This is no more a solution than any other tactic suggested here merely another alternative tool that may sometimes be useful, or not as the case may be. At the very least you may get to see that look on his face where he is at a complete loss for how to respond to your agreeing with him when he was looking for a fight. You are very skilled at agreeing and I see your point. I like your approach. I will have to work on being a quicker thinker but perhaps just a "yes, your right", might still do the trick. I find that I am often in an argument before I knew it began. My husband thrives from the energy produced from these interactions but I am beyond exhausted from them. In some ways I have lost I will to fight and in others I a. completely outraged before I even understand what happened. Not sure if that makes sense or not. Anyways, your approach has merit. once mentioned a brilliant line that can take the wind out of any arguer's sails, without admitting that the argument has any merit. "That must be very hurtful to you." (Or words to that effect) Just repeat that over and over. The brilliance comes from responding to anger with concern. It is completely disarming. |
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Post by sweetplumeria on Sept 14, 2018 10:31:14 GMT -5
To my understanding its kinda like 'I feel sorry for you cause your so fuckin stupid.' Kinda like how southern women will say “Well, bless your heart” when they really mean “You f’ing asshole”. Oh is that what that meant? Wow. I wonder what "Well bless your little pea-pickin heart" meant? |
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jetcity
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Post by jetcity on Sept 17, 2018 13:08:54 GMT -5
I would practice a verbatim response for when he plays this game. Rehearse it and memorize it sort of like we did when we were in school. Then stay calm on the inside, maybe even roll your eyes and smile - that will really aggravate him then let him have it with whatever monologue you choose to go with, then like @shynjdude stated end the conversation and leave the room. Also don’t feel bad and don’t do anything for him. Poor behavior has consequences. My monologue would be something like this: “Who the fuck do you think your are talking to me like this and then twisting around my answers? I answered your questions and if you don’t like the answer that’s your problem. I’m not going to continue this discussion because it’s a waste of my time”. Also phrases like “We will have to agree to disagree” and “fuck off” are useful. Then leave the room. I’m sorry you are feeling this way and had to go through that. Hang in there. Hugs |
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jetcity
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Post by jetcity on Sept 17, 2018 13:40:17 GMT -5
Mental abuse is just as unacceptable in a marriage as is physical abuse.
If someone is physically abused most people will just say F...You and leave. Which I believe is the correct response. Many people will stay with a mental abuser because they think the other party will change, or they think it’s not that bad. Mental abuse will build up inside until the abused person ends up with a form of PTSD. Numbness, despair, self doubt, low self esteem, they start to believe they are what the abuser says they are.
Ask the abuser if they know how they’re words make you feel and if they are going to continue to do so. If yes, then I recommend leaving. If not forever, then for a couple days at least. Turn off your phone and have no contact.
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Post by elkclan2 on Sept 18, 2018 10:21:05 GMT -5
sweetplumeria - I think this is why I've adjusted so well to living in England where everyone is polite and do not necessarily mean what they say. I value politeness greatly and I love my now family life with my ENGLISH partner (my ex was British but not English and it makes a difference) and everyone is exceedingly polite. He was ticked off with me (justifiably) about something recently and said "Darling, it has come to my attention..." OK, got the message!!! But we all have their own preferences.
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