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Post by jamesbonding on Sept 21, 2018 4:51:55 GMT -5
jgb and xfoo, if your wives find sex absolutely revolting or painful, then I guess you're stuck. But if they are just not excited or "interested" in sex, you might consider asking them to let you "have your way" with them. Marriage therapist Michele Wiener-Davis says that some women are initially not interested in sex, but once they get into the activity, they start to enjoy it. My wife is that way sometimes. It's often difficult to get her to agree to have sex - she's just not interested, wants to do something else, is too tired, etc. - but sometimes she will agree, and then after I get started for a few minutes sometimes she gets aroused and admits afterward that she enjoyed it. Even when she expects that she won't enjoy it, I think she agrees to have sex because she is willing to please me. She doesn't necessarily enjoy the sex itself, but she enjoys my enjoyment! It's a loving gesture; why shouldn't I accept it? "emerson" reports at www.reuniting.info/comment/96124#comment-96124 that his wife has a very low libido, yet they have a very satisfactory sex life. jgb and xfoo, since your wives at least make a pretense of loving you, might they agree to sex, not for their own pleasure, but just to please you?
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xfoo
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Age Range: 41-45
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Post by xfoo on Sept 21, 2018 9:41:27 GMT -5
jamesbonding, I think I read and forwarded something from the therapist you referenced to my wife. She can enjoy sex and climaxes every time (once we figured out what we were doing). It's just that she has no desire for it herself. I initiated 100% of the time for the first 15 years of our marriage. The answer was usually "no" for one of a few different reasons: too tired, headache, it's too early, it's too late, we just did, or just plain ol' not in the mood. I searched out marriage improvement literature and started reading about highly effective habits, love languages, chore-play, scented candles, love-honor-vacuum, flowers for no reason, etc. etc. ad nauseam ad infinitum. She would occasionally acquiesce if I had jumped through enough hoops, the stars had aligned, the barometric pressure was stabilizing, and one of her shows wasn't on. More often, even if I lined up all those targets, the answer was still no.
So, to answer your question, yes she will agree to sex but just to please me. It's the "lie back and think of England" type. Perhaps that would be enough if she were lying back and thinking of England 2 or 3 times per week. The quality is lacking but you can't argue with the quantity. But instead she figures if she lies back and thinks of England once every month that should be good enough (Seriously! Is that all you think about?!?) I've been the recipient of her "loving gestures" but they are too few, too late and too much "earning" on my part. I'm sexually and romantically checked out of our marriage. I probably won't outsource (fear of hellfire and brimstone goes generations deep here) and I probably won't divorce. You know, the irony of it will probably be that as I withdraw the things she likes about marriage (dates, cuddling, kissing, affectionate pleasantries, financial support) she may either outsource or divorce. I won't mind one bit.
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 21, 2018 10:02:44 GMT -5
xfoo you “won’t mind one bit” if your wife starts having sex with someone else when she’s been reluctant to have sex with you for years? I would mind. A LOT. And I’d file for divorce in a heartbeat.
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xfoo
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Post by xfoo on Sept 21, 2018 11:07:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think I would mind now.
About 18 months into our marriage she admitted to "cheating" during our engagement. I was away at school. She was running around with friends who were hooking up with guys. She ended up making out with a guy. She said it only happened once (I doubt that) but that she didn't have sex (I don't doubt that). She had walked in on me taking care of business on my own and had a complete blowout. She figured that was as good a time as any to come clean. I was mad as hell, but didn't really get to express it because she was madder than hell. I was mad because I loved her.
About 10 years ago she went to a doctor who put her on Adderall. That drug has some long-term side effects and I worried about them. I worried about her long-term health because I loved her.
She is going to start taking Adderall again. I couldn't care less. I don't worry about her health because I don't love her anymore.
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Post by jamesbonding on Sept 21, 2018 14:49:05 GMT -5
xfoo I would suggest being very clear and open with your wife about why you will be moving into a separate bedroom, not being affectionate, etc. Don't just move and not tell her why. I suspect that your wife still has a delusion that everything is fine in your marriage. She needs to wake up. My wife was something like that. It was amazingly difficult to get her to understand that I was not going to put up with the absence of sex and intimacy any more. I had to tell her, TWICE, that I was preparing for divorce, and then told her I was going to outsource, and then DID SO, before she finally (two months later!) changed her behavior and started having sex with me again. So our marriage turned around, and for the last eight years we've had sex about once every 10 days. Recently I've been working to increase that, and we've been doing it about once a day for the last couple weeks. My story is at iliasm.org/thread/4694/recovered-sexless-marriage
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Sept 24, 2018 12:35:01 GMT -5
jgb and xfoo, since your wives at least make a pretense of loving you, might they agree to sex, not for their own pleasure, but just to please you? Possibly...probably. But, as I have said before, that idea is revolting to me. The idea of sex when I am the only one who wants to be there? I would, by a pretty huge margin, rather do without. I don't know if there is a medical cure for my medically-induced impotence. I haven't pursued it. There has never been a reason to. I'm not completely clueless as to the options. You can't go five minutes without seeing an ad telling you that there is a pill for 'erectile disfunction', but I have never heard it said that those drugs can fix your anorgasmia. I assume that, if they did, the nice couple in the outdoor bathtubs would have said something. So you can see why I am pessimistic about my chances of ever having sex again. There is not one thing standing in the way...there are 5 or 6 and none of them are unrelated to the others. Like defusing a bomb with 6 triggers. Hopeless. |
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Post by jamesbonding on Sept 25, 2018 0:07:53 GMT -5
This is interesting... from the Wikipedia article about the drug bupropion (Wellbutrin): Also, people seem to have a hard time believing this, but sex can be quite enjoyable without having an orgasm. For the last 8 years, I've deliberately avoided having orgasms. I've had sex about once per 10 days on average, but only have about half a dozen orgasms in a year, usually accidentally. Why do I avoid orgasming? Because I feel better, mentally and physically, in the hours and days after sex. I have a little more energy, and I'm less irritable, which results in more domestic tranquility. For more info, see iliasm.org/thread/4739/benefits-orgasming-seriously . I'd suggest posting any comments about that practice over there, to keep the comments in one place and to avoid hijacking this thread. Anyway, there are some ideas about how to defuse a couple of triggers on that bomb. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 25, 2018 6:24:20 GMT -5
This is interesting... from the Wikipedia article about the drug bupropion (Wellbutrin): Also, people seem to have a hard time believing this, but sex can be quite enjoyable without having an orgasm. Anyway, there are some ideas about how to defuse a couple of triggers on that bomb. Very interesting about Wellbutrin! Ironically, that what my STBX is on (even while refusing me and having seemingly no interest in sex). I agree sex can be enjoyable even without orgasms. I don’t climax every single time and I still love it. But I’m not understanding your push to specifically NOT have orgasms. They’re great! Why purposely hold back (unless it’s during the course of a long sex session to heighten the tension)? Orgasms are proven to be good for your health. Sounds like a plan to me! 😁 |
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Post by solodriver on Sept 26, 2018 1:45:39 GMT -5
"I agree sex can be enjoyable even without orgasms. I don’t climax every single time and I still love it. But I’m not understanding your push to specifically NOT have orgasms. They’re great! Why purposely hold back (unless it’s during the course of a long sex session to heighten the tension)? Orgasms are proven to be good for your health. Sounds like a plan to me! 😁" I'm looking forward to getting healthier!  |
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Post by jamesbonding on Sept 29, 2018 16:49:11 GMT -5
I agree sex can be enjoyable even without orgasms. I don’t climax every single time and I still love it. But I’m not understanding your push to specifically NOT have orgasms. They’re great! Why purposely hold back (unless it’s during the course of a long sex session to heighten the tension)? Orgasms are proven to be good for your health. Sounds like a plan to me! 😁 Sorry, I've been away for a few days. choosinghappy, I replied at iliasm.org/thread/4739/benefits-orgasming-seriously |
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jgb
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Post by jgb on Oct 1, 2018 10:39:33 GMT -5
This is interesting... from the Wikipedia article about the drug bupropion (Wellbutrin): Also, people seem to have a hard time believing this, but sex can be quite enjoyable without having an orgasm. Anyway, there are some ideas about how to defuse a couple of triggers on that bomb. Very interesting about Wellbutrin! Ironically, that what my STBX is on (even while refusing me and having seemingly no interest in sex). I agree sex can be enjoyable even without orgasms. I don’t climax every single time and I still love it. But I’m not understanding your push to specifically NOT have orgasms. They’re great! Why purposely hold back (unless it’s during the course of a long sex session to heighten the tension)? Orgasms are proven to be good for your health. Sounds like a plan to me! 😁 Bupropion (Wellbutrin) is one of the drugs that I take. Taking it alone does not help with my depression, but it does make me awake and more alert than I normally am. I think that this is why I am still taking it...the Doctor was hoping that it would help mitigate the negative side effects of the other drug. Maybe it does...I don't know. But to be somewhat crude, an erection is nearly impossible, an orgasm is completely impossible. My desire level is lower too. Given, my wife's almost zen like attitude towards her complete lack of sexual desire, that last one may actually be a benefit. As I said, she would probably 'let me' if I were to ask, but I can not express how creeped out that idea makes me. Plus, what is there to do? She has no wish for an orgasm, so the only activity that I am still able to do (going down on her) is absurdly pointless. So, even if those drugs 'fixed' me completely, taking them would be a bad idea. Higher desire would just make me sexually frustrated. |
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Post by Caris on Oct 2, 2018 21:15:30 GMT -5
Sounds like she has the exact marriage she wants jgb . Obviously you do not, or you wouldn’t be here. But with you being more willing to “throw yourself out of a moving car” rather than talk about it, not one thing has any hope of changing in the direction you wish it could. You quitting asking her for sex is likely the best thing you could have done in her eyes. To be clear, what I am not willing to talk about is having sex despite her lack of desire. I would say that I have about 90% of the marriage that I want. Of course, quantifying something like that is in eye of the beholder. Judging from some of the vitriol I have read here, I would guess that, some of those, if presented with my exact situation, would judge themselves at 10%...maybe -10%. It has been suggested, more than once, that my presence here indicates that I am struggling (or refusing) to admit I have a bad marriage and to find the courage to do something about it. As if this were a binary, black and white, issue. It's not. The problem isn't realistically fixable. I understand that. I have accepted that. But acceptance isn't like registering to vote...something done once and forgotten. It is something that has to be maintained. Talking about it, with those in similar situations, helps with that. That is why I was glad to see a section opened for people who are not leaving. More talking about keeping a positive outlook and less use of "shithole" as an adjective. I agree with you. Just because we accept something does not mean it’s no longer a problem or doesn’t pain us anymore. However, not every marriage is the same, and you are lucky if you have 90%. My marriage was more like 20%, so even if one keeps a positive outlook (or tries to), for some, it’s just a band aid covering a festering wound, which gradually becomes “septic.” Maybe you don’t have that because you have a happy life in other respects of your marriage, but those who don’t have that, well, who can blame them for calling it a sh*thole? For them, it is. For you, it is not. |
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