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Post by Dan on Aug 8, 2018 11:25:04 GMT -5
To those who are new to the forum and have found this board (“Choosing to Stay”), you might be planning to start reading this board in hopes of finding an answer has to how to fix things in your SM. If so please note there is a reason this board is not called “Fixing your Sexless Marriage”: there is no ready-made formula to fix an SM. Now, there may be things to try (and I encourage you to find them and try them), but a fix may or may not be possible given your situation.
Remember: the only person you can change is yourself. You can make decisions about what you say (to your partner or others), what you do (inside or outside the marriage)... but most importantly you can change how you think.
Accepting the downsides of “staying” just because the downsides of “leaving” are worse is not likely to lead to happiness or contentment. It sucks having no good options. The best -- perhaps only -- strategy for “staying” is: identify the upsides… and embrace them. Convince yourself that the upsides of staying outweigh the downsides of staying.
This bears repeating. This is unlikely to serve as a long-term basis for staying: This MIGHT get you to a place of coping with your SM: This is an intensely personal decision. Your reasons may be due to finances, or the desire to be close to your children, or not wanting to break family or community expectations of your or your marriage, or anything. Find your truth. Working this out is essential to finding any peace in “staying”.
If you can’t do that, then maybe staying isn’t the best option for you.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 8, 2018 12:00:24 GMT -5
“First!”
Damn. Dan beat me to it. ;-) Cool to see this new section!
It’s said that the secret to a long marriage is to not get divorced. Well, duh.
So many dynamics feed into staying in a difficult relationship. For some, it might simply be “the devil you know”, fear of change, or just letting life default to the status quo for one more day. These might be the more dubious reasons to stay, but to each their own.
For others, it’s a more conscious, calculated decision. The marriage isn’t what you hoped and dreamed it would be, and if you’re reading this it probably lacks passion and intimacy - maybe even basic affection. But in the bigger picture staying seems like the better choice. I think folks that gravitate to this section will tend to fall into this camp.
Maybe (hopefully) it’s a low-conflict environment and you’re committed to keeping the nuclear family together. (Warning: Your kids learn “normal” from you, so carefully consider the example you’re setting for their future.) Maybe you have strong religious or moral beliefs that compel you to “stay together at all costs”. Or, maybe it’s the simple reality of finances, whether that’s the cost of child support and alimony, or trying to make ends meet on a single income (or half as much retirement).
I think there are plenty of scenarios where staying is very hard and requires some personal sacrifices to achieve. And it really, really sucks to sacrifice feeling loved. But for some people that’s the hard option they’ll choose. It’s a very personal decision.
While I’m on my soapbox, I’ll share this thought... any choice is a valid choice. “But”... you owe it to yourself to be sure it’s an informed decision. Take a hard look at the situation and evaluate the big picture - more than the missing intimacy. Don’t just consider whether you can cope a little longer - look ahead 20, 30, 40 years and think about whether you’ll regret the decision you make today. (Take it from someone who’s done “Choosing to Stay” for 3 decades, it’s a really hard path, with many points of wanting to escape at any cost.)
The one thing we can’t get back are wasted years - be sure you’re spending them wisely.
DC
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Post by baza on Aug 11, 2018 1:33:26 GMT -5
The case to stay is just like the case to leave. Pre-supposing you have done your due diligence, fully checked out the options and objectively thought it all through, then you will be in a position to make a fully informed choice.
And the choice you make will stand on its' own merits, and be in your longer term best interests, and it will be very difficult to institute.
It isn't all that relevant what you choose, there is no moral superiority in staying over leaving, the leaving option is no more right than staying either.
Your choice is the right choice...for you.
Will your choice be perfect ? Almost certainly not. You will continue to have problems to manage whichever way you choose to go.
But the process (getting yourself fully informed, checking out the options fully, evaluating which option is most likely to be in your longer term best interests) and arriving at a fully informed choice, is pretty much identical - whether that choice is to stay, or to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 16:02:48 GMT -5
The case to stay is just like the case to leave. Pre-supposing you have done your due diligence, fully checked out the options and objectively thought it all through, then you will be in a position to make a fully informed choice. And the choice you make will stand on its' own merits, and be in your longer term best interests, and it will be very difficult to institute. It isn't all that relevant what you choose, there is no moral superiority in staying over leaving, the leaving option is no more right than staying either. Your choice is the right choice...for you. Will your choice be perfect ? Almost certainly not. You will continue to have problems to manage whichever way you choose to go. This is completely true and likely why many of us stay despite the sexlessness. It's a fairly simple calculation, "Will I have a greater number of problems if I (leave/stay)." In my own case, I believe the number of problems would be greater at least right now. I don't have a plan to leave and I am no longer working on "fixing" anything. I may always change the plan based on how this balance of great/lesser changes over time. I suspect that's almost universally true to marriages.
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 18, 2018 3:21:29 GMT -5
“First!”Damn. Dan beat me to it. ;-) Cool to see this new section! It’s said that the secret to a long marriage is to not get divorced. Well, duh. So many dynamics feed into staying in a difficult relationship. For some, it might simply be “the devil you know”, fear of change, or just letting life default to the status quo for one more day. These might be the more dubious reasons to stay, but to each their own. For others, it’s a more conscious, calculated decision. The marriage isn’t what you hoped and dreamed it would be, and if you’re reading this it probably lacks passion and intimacy - maybe even basic affection. But in the bigger picture staying seems like the better choice. I think folks that gravitate to this section will tend to fall into this camp. Maybe (hopefully) it’s a low-conflict environment and you’re committed to keeping the nuclear family together. (Warning: Your kids learn “normal” from you, so carefully consider the example you’re setting for their future.) Maybe you have strong religious or moral beliefs that compel you to “stay together at all costs”. Or, maybe it’s the simple reality of finances, whether that’s the cost of child support and alimony, or trying to make ends meet on a single income (or half as much retirement). I think there are plenty of scenarios where staying is very hard and requires some personal sacrifices to achieve. And it really, really sucks to sacrifice feeling loved. But for some people that’s the hard option they’ll choose. It’s a very personal decision. While I’m on my soapbox, I’ll share this thought... any choice is a valid choice. “But”... you owe it to yourself to be sure it’s an informed decision. Take a hard look at the situation and evaluate the big picture - more than the missing intimacy. Don’t just consider whether you can cope a little longer - look ahead 20, 30, 40 years and think about whether you’ll regret the decision you make today. (Take it from someone who’s done “Choosing to Stay” for 3 decades, it’s a really hard path, with many points of wanting to escape at any cost.) The one thing we can’t get back are wasted years - be sure you’re spending them wisely. DC To me, I've been thinking of if things are greener on the other side of the road. Financially, it is better for me to stay. For me, I think marriage is overrated after being in this one. Getting a fwb is fine, but I really need some convincing of why relationships work anymore after getting mind-fked by my current W.
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Post by saarinista on Aug 27, 2018 3:45:03 GMT -5
hey! I'm just glad the "staying" option has a real subforum now instead of just a thread. should encourage more meaningful dialogue on this option.
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Post by workingonit on Aug 27, 2018 9:47:09 GMT -5
I am curious about the role of fantasizing in staying. If you regularly engage in fantasy about leaving,perhaps even planning a possible alternative future, does that take you out of the staying camp?
I am staying FOR NOW. But part of what helps me stay is planning to leave. It calms me down and keeps me unhooked from our negatuve patterns. It takes the sting out of his rejection.
Now as many have pointed out, staying even with a caveat is still staying.
So what is the role for fantasy/plans of leaving as a staying coping strategy? Any thoughts?
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 27, 2018 10:33:18 GMT -5
I am curious about the role of fantasizing in staying. If you regularly engage in fantasy about leaving,perhaps even planning a possible alternative future, does that take you out of the staying camp? I am staying FOR NOW. But part of what helps me stay is planning to leave. It calms me down and keeps me unhooked from our negatuve patterns. It takes the sting out of his rejection. Now as many have pointed out, staying even with a caveat is still staying. So what is the role for fantasy/plans of leaving as a staying coping strategy? Any thoughts? Maybe it deals with elements of acceptance and emotional finality to the marriage which is a good coping mechanism. Lots of different ways to cope.
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Post by baza on Aug 27, 2018 16:37:02 GMT -5
I would figure that "fantasising" about leaving would be a good distraction strategy Sister workingonit . The big risk is, that the fantasy may not be all that far removed from being something you *could* do, and you might find yourself turning the fantasy into a theory, and thence into an exit strategy. And if you truly want to stay, that is going to see you even more conflicted than you already are. Of course if you are open to the idea of leaving, then the process of turning a fantasy into a theory, and thence into a solid and do-able exit strategy could have far reaching consequences. Not necessarily bad ones.
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Post by mescaline on Aug 28, 2018 14:55:26 GMT -5
For me the fantasy and daydreaming is part of the process of disengaging from the marriage. I'm staying for now, have no solid plans to leave. Have no intention of seeing a solicitor in the near future.
But, I dream of when I can leave and that is a goal in itself. The fantasy is a future possibility and the more I think of it the easier it gets to picture that reality from an emotional perspective.
I'm not kidding myself that I'm ready and I may never be ready, but the idea is there and that's what counts. To me.
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Post by time4intimacy on Sept 3, 2018 14:56:10 GMT -5
I am curious about the role of fantasizing in staying. If you regularly engage in fantasy about leaving,perhaps even planning a possible alternative future, does that take you out of the staying camp? I am staying FOR NOW. But part of what helps me stay is planning to leave. It calms me down and keeps me unhooked from our negatuve patterns. It takes the sting out of his rejection. Now as many have pointed out, staying even with a caveat is still staying. So what is the role for fantasy/plans of leaving as a staying coping strategy? Any thoughts? I think just because you engage in fantasy about an alternative outcome that would be better than your current situation, does not mean you have moved out of the staying camp. I totally get what you are saying. Without thinking through the alternative situation and knowing you would be ok, it would make it even harder to try to stay as you would feel so much more pressure. Your way of thinking seems very close to my mind right now.
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Post by h on Sept 3, 2018 18:57:12 GMT -5
I am curious about the role of fantasizing in staying. If you regularly engage in fantasy about leaving,perhaps even planning a possible alternative future, does that take you out of the staying camp? I am staying FOR NOW. But part of what helps me stay is planning to leave. It calms me down and keeps me unhooked from our negatuve patterns. It takes the sting out of his rejection. Now as many have pointed out, staying even with a caveat is still staying. So what is the role for fantasy/plans of leaving as a staying coping strategy? Any thoughts? Maybe for you, the fantasizing helps you endure because you see the light at the end of the tunnel. For you, staying is a finite quantity of time which is psychologically easier to handle than the open ended prospect of staying "till death" and so it works for you. You're staying FOR NOW but not forever. For someone planning on staying forever, your coping mechanism wouldn't work so well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 15:21:54 GMT -5
I am curious about the role of fantasizing in staying. If you regularly engage in fantasy about leaving,perhaps even planning a possible alternative future, does that take you out of the staying camp? I am staying FOR NOW. But part of what helps me stay is planning to leave. It calms me down and keeps me unhooked from our negatuve patterns. It takes the sting out of his rejection. Now as many have pointed out, staying even with a caveat is still staying. So what is the role for fantasy/plans of leaving as a staying coping strategy? Any thoughts? Just seeing this now. I'm curious, too. Seems for me the fantasy of leaving is taking my head out of the staying game and preventing me from fully jumping back into my marriage (heart and all) 100%. If I'm thinking of leaving, seems that's where my feet will eventually take me. @workingonit have you had any success with this? I'm really trying to shut off all other thoughts besides staying and really trying to make it work, but have yet to be successful. I always seemed to find myself back here ... looking at a 4 day weekend with just my husband and I. It 'should' be paradise, but I'm already anxious of how this is going to play out and I'm not even out of work yet. lol! Ugh .... I wish I could just shut my brain off and be ok with the good parts of the marriage and leave the rest alone.
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Post by saarinista on Jan 1, 2019 20:48:49 GMT -5
@whynotm3 You certainly can shut off the sexual part of your brain. I did for many years because leaving was too overwhelming to contemplate and frankly, it had been so long since I'd experienced emotional or sexual excitement I'd forgotten how good they feel. I was deeply depressed and numb, but it was more doable for me than acknowledging the reality of my situation-that my marriage probably died a long time ago, and after nine sexless years, I have a roommate.
What changed things a bit for me and landed me on this forum was falling for someone online, a relationship that has continued for a year and a half yet ultimately is not satisfying my deepest needs and wants. So that is frustrating. On the other hand, feeling love and desire again at least forced me to admit that whatever my marriage may have been, it no longer is.
I think there are millions of people who live in dead marriages. And as baza would say, that's a valid choice and for some people, the right one.
Every marriage is different. My husband and I have no children or other real family, and for me, that makes the prospect of leaving him extremely difficult. On the other hand, l have had this attitude for so long that I have largely withdrawn from friendships, making me all the more reliant on him as my whole life. I also feel responsible for being his family, which is not entirely healthy, probably. Marriage involves responsibility but when it becomes nothing more than a commitment, that's not good. Not to me, anyway.
But I could stay in this marriage and "content" myself with sexting, find a real affair, or just shut down part of my body and brain again. I have no idea what will happen. But at least I know there are possibilities out there other than guaranteed numbness until I die. At least I am acknowledging the truth.
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Post by Handy on Jan 2, 2019 20:27:30 GMT -5
Saarinista What changed things a bit for me and landed me on this forum was falling for someone online, a relationship that has continued for a year and a half yet ultimately is not satisfying my deepest needs and wants.
My idea of on-line affairs and sexting, it might be fun for a week or two but looking at something you like such as ice cream, just doesn't satisfy as much as having the real thing. I think i could be online friends with someone but to fill a basic emotional desire, it would have to get real-in-person for it to be satisfying. That is just my idea of the difference between an online or phone friend or something with more meat on the bone / really satisfying. Of course the real thing could go either way after a while. I can turn off my expectations but not my actual desires.
With whynotm3, living in the same house as her H, I don't imagine sexting would ever satisfy her need for physical desire.
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