nicky
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by nicky on Jul 21, 2018 20:17:42 GMT -5
Anytime wife criticizes me, i take the kids and leave the room, cut off the phone with lame excuses. If i’m stuck in small confined space with her (like in a car), i look away and sing to myself. I’m done trying to please her. Her emotional roller coasters have nothing to do with me, except i need to talk to her when she’s in a positive mood only to sort out the co-parenting arrangements. I’ve lost hope. It’s been too long.
Ppl say ignoring her and stone walling her starts another negative cycle. Yes it does. But there just came a time (1 week ago) when i realize enough is enough. And 5 years is long enough, having tried everything, including counselling, to loose all hope.
It’s easier to just accept reality, grow some balls, and be ready for showdown anytime. I’m more geared up to fight these days. 1 week ago i would still hold her hand when going out. But now i don’t even bother.
The moment of truth draws near... but not yet, due to stupid but important logistical reasons... so holding back from full confrontation for another 5 months, then it’s all hell break loose.
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Post by flounder on Jul 21, 2018 20:52:36 GMT -5
So be prepared. I would consult with a lawyer ASAP.
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Post by baza on Jul 21, 2018 21:30:13 GMT -5
Again, legal advice - exit strategy - support network - managing kids through plan - are all things you need to have in your pocket Brother nicky . If you haven't got them now, the chances are that you will still not have them in "5 months time" (December 2018) - unless you start NOW. And in "5 months time" (Dec 2018) Chistmas will be looming and the temptation to defer the matter into 2019 will be very appealing and before you know it, it'll be this time next year.
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nicky
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by nicky on Jul 22, 2018 6:54:29 GMT -5
10 hours later...
Actually nothing special happened tday, just went to church with wife and kids, went to lunch, went to a frd’s cake shop, to the supermarket, just plain old nothingness. Except the kids were so dxxm happy every single moment. Even during the time we were waiting for the wife shopping and the kids and i were playing pokemon go. Everything was so nice.
I’m going to miss this. I don’t ever want a protracted custody battle with my wife. Never.
I understand my wife has temper and shouts at me at times. And for 5 years we haven’t had real sex, just a shadow of a shadow of what seemed as if it was sex, but sadly not quite. But peaceful days like tday makes me wonder, is it really justifiable for me to stay angry at her? I do love her... even if i want to eventually start the talk (5 months...) and may get a divorce if things go really bad... but deep down below i don’t really want a divorce.
I wonder how little love and sex i need from my wife for me to stay. They stay “the secret to a long marriage is 2 procrastinators”, but i dunno whether i’m procrastinating, or this is actually what i want, a fulfilling family life, and a wife who’s mostly sane (and sometimes crazy), and that sex is really not that important. (Despite i do miss being properly fxxked)
Fxxk me i’m conflicted.
Any advice or comments from u guys will be valued thx.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 22, 2018 7:06:29 GMT -5
You don’t have to be actively angry at her to still be unhappy in your marriage.
But you say “deep down I don’t really want a divorce”. If that’s true then you have some work to do figuring out what you can live with and how to get over your anger and resentment. You need to truly accept what will be your reality if you stay.
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Post by tirefire on Jul 22, 2018 8:13:23 GMT -5
nicky, if it helps, when I decided to pull the plug, I had realized that I didn't want my remaining decades to be in a relationship that is "not too bad sometimes". Seriously. This life is not a warm up or rehearsal. I get the thing with your kids. I have that, too. And I'm going to get more, better time with them because our best times together are just the three of us. Be very careful about throwing away days of your life. Once you drop the D bomb and start preparing for the next phase of your life, it will bring some clarity.
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Post by baza on Jul 22, 2018 8:43:48 GMT -5
The final arbitration of what is "acceptable enough" to stay in the marriage - and what is "unacceptable enough" to vacate the marriage is a responsibility that sits right on your shoulders Brother nicky . You, and you alone get to make that call (unless your missus goes completely apeshit and divorces you first). All I'd - again - suggest, is that you get your legal advice - exit strategy - support network - managing kids through plan in order. Then, when/if your thinking clicks over to "not acceptable" you won't be scrambling around for a course of action to follow. And, if you never get to "not acceptable" and never need such an exit plan. then no harm done.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 9:49:48 GMT -5
I agree with Baz that it is up to you to determine what's acceptable for your marriage. What you settle for is what you will get in your marriage and in other areas of your life.
If you happen to have grown up in a home in which one or both parents acted like your wife acts -- or worse than your wife acts -- you may think that what your wife does is normal, expected or even better than how most people's spouses act. Meanwhile, truth is that you are living with a person who practices verbal and emotional abuse. Many people have not been in such relationships. Once i grew up and left my parents' home, I have never been in a relationship with a person who verbally abused me or had the kind of temper tantrums your wife (and my dad) had. If there were any signs that a man was like that (typically the signs are mistreatment of people who "don't matter" like wait staff or domestics), I did not continue the relationship.
It is not normal to enter one's home in fear that one's spouse will make you the object of rage. To avoid your wife's rage attacks, you probably walk on eggshells a lot, bowing to her wishes and suppressing your own emotions and desires. Your kids also probably do that. It is not normal to have to hyperfocus on suppressing your own normal behavior in order to keep another person from erupting in rage.
To make up your mind about whether to stay in your marriage, I suggest that you get individual counseling to help you develop the self knowledge and respect to realize you are deserving of a relationship in which you are treated with kindness and respect and if a partner doesn't treat you that way, you let go of that relationship because you would prefer to be single than with someone who mistreats you.
I've asked this before and you haven't yet answered. Answering will give us a clearer picture of what your wife is like. When your wife is angry at you what does she say? Does she name call? If so, what names does she call you? Does she threaten to hurt you? Does she physically attack you? Does she say things that are demeaning? If so, what does she say? And what did she say during her two hour tirade directed at your maid who was a few minutes late preparing your children's lunch?
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Post by bballgirl on Jul 22, 2018 10:13:03 GMT -5
It sounds like you are in the stay for the kids camp which is a valid choice. I will also say that when I was married I did go through the back and forth of staying and leaving in my mind, until finally I left for my own sanity.
One thing I would say is that people treat us the way we allow them to treat us and it sounds like you tolerate her anger but never stand up for yourself or put her in her place. When she starts her yelling and craziness I would yell back. Start with the words “Listen here bitch (because that’s what she is she’s a bitch) shut your mouth i will not listen to your bullshit, and you need to learn how to treat people. I understand this behavior is disrespectful and most likely not your true nature but sometimes you have to throw down to protect ourselves. Your wife is crazy and she will not change - people don’t change.
Me personally I’d divorce her ass, but I understand you are empathizing for the kids. Maybe you are not ready yet for yourself but at least have the courage to tell her to go fuck herself.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 10:28:46 GMT -5
"One thing I would say is that people treat us the way we allow them to treat us and it sounds like you tolerate her anger but never stand up for yourself or put her in her place. When she starts her yelling and craziness I would yell back. Start with the words “Listen here bitch (because that’s what she is she’s a bitch) shut your mouth i will not listen to your bullshit, and you need to learn how to treat people. I understand this behavior is disrespectful and most likely not your true nature but sometimes you have to throw down to protect ourselves. Your wife is crazy and she will not change - people don’t change. "
I don't agree with yelling and name calling back. That just escalates things, upsets your kids more (speaking this after having a childhood in which my parents yelled at and name called each other), and teaches your kids that's how to behave -- including with you.
You can set a boundary by leaving the scene (and taking the kids with you) or hanging up when your wife is verbally abusive. Have the balls to quietly but clearly say why you are leaving or hanging up: "I do not allow anyone to shout at me or name call at me. Good bye."
bballgirl said: "Me personally I’d divorce her ass, but I understand you are empathizing for the kids. "
I don't see empathy for the kids. I see denial of and a lack of compassion for the stressful situation his wife's behavior is putting those kids in. There's also denial that she probably aims more of her vitriol at the kids (who are defenseless and probably around her alone more than he is. I'd divorce such a spouse while fighting tooth and nail for custody. This may include recording some of her rants so they can be used as evidence of her abusive rages.
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nicky
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by nicky on Jul 22, 2018 10:42:38 GMT -5
I've asked this before and you haven't yet answered. Answering will give us a clearer picture of what your wife is like. When your wife is angry at you what does she say? Does she name call? If so, what names does she call you? Does she threaten to hurt you? Does she physically attack you? Does she say things that are demeaning? If so, what does she say? And what did she say during her two hour tirade directed at your maid who was a few minutes late preparing your children's lunch? Thx for ur concern, let me try when she’s angry she says she truly hates me. She said she’s staying only for the kids, that she doesn't love me anymore. she thought i would be stronger, more caring etc. but i dunno. She always had a temper... i dunno how much she mean those things. Maybe she means it 100%, but i’m staying for the kids too, so that makes 2 of us. hm... abt name calling, did she do it? She probably did but i can’t rmb what she called me. But she gets irritated easily, like she doesn’t like bugs at all, and always criticises me when I sneeze or whistle, that sort of minor things she throws things on the floor when angry, sometimes slaps my arm or sth like that, but i nvr felt seriously threatened physically by her. Maybe it’s bcoz i’m physically bigger and stronger. Also nvr broke anything of value. She broke an alarm clock or 2, hm... sth like that she says demeaning things like “u’re no gd, the kids will be loosers if they grow up like u” but i nvr took it seriously. I’m quite confident professionally i think the kids are ok if they grow up just like me. It’s the noise, the constant bickering, the drawn out irritated emotion, not the actual substance of her words that bothers me. as to the maid, i’ve said it b4 and i’ll say it again, it’s not that i don’t want to protect the maid, but the maid has no vested interest in my family. I pay her 1 maid’s income to do 1/2 a maid’s job, with a difficult boss. If it’s a bad deal for her she can leave anytime. And i’m grateful for her service. But rly i think she’s a full grown adult she makes her own choice by staying here, and i believe this is what she chooses to do now. Maybe she’s emotionally stronger than i am so she takes criticism better. As to what my wife said to her, just repeated criticism for all small things done not to her specifications, daily domestic stuff.
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Post by workingonit on Jul 22, 2018 10:50:04 GMT -5
nicky these are valid concerns and issues. It sounds to me like you are not at the end of your rope yet. I held out hope for a long time myself. There is no right answer here. I agree that individual therapy is really important at this point. To really know yourself and figure out what you need and can live with. It also sounds like you have not done too much sitting your w down for a deep talk where you share your hurt with her using some really awesome communication skills. This is unlikely to change anything BUT I do think it is essential for YOUR process to communicate calmly and completely with your refuser. It can help you move forward one way or another. And you may be surprised. Some -few- people get turn arounds or attempts. Now you have shared some horrible tid bits of info about your w that makes her seem psycho. If this is accurate I think you need therapy to ask why you are putting up with it. That seems to be less important to you than the sex q which is a reasonable place to start your self work. Does some part of you like the drama? You've got work to do friend!
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 10:53:06 GMT -5
"when she’s angry she says she truly hates me. She said she’s staying only for the kids, that she doesn't love me anymore. she thought i would be stronger, more caring etc. but i dunno. She always had a temper... i dunno how much she mean those things. Maybe she means it 100%, but i’m staying for the kids too, so that makes 2 of us."
By the time I was a teen, I could see my mother was miserable and depressed a lot. I blamed myself because I knew she stayed with my verbally abusive dad for the sake of the kids. I didn't feel grateful, I felt guilty and so resentful that I begged her to leave him. She didn't. As an adult, I realize that her reasons for staying had more to do with her own fears about living as a single and being stigmatized by a second divorce than with concern for me.
Your wife also is teaching your kids how to treat you. While I never said hateful things to my mom, my brother did, including as an adult. As an adult in his 30s, he not only was still calling my mom names, he was expecting her to cater to him in ways that were inappropriate for him to expect. For instance, when he was in his late 30s and my mom was about 80, he expected her to drive across town in the middle of the night to rescue him after his car broke down. My brother also chose an emotionally and verbally abusive woman as his life partner. Police were called to their homes due to domestic abuse. Their children also were removed by the state.
"she throws things on the floor when angry, sometimes slaps my arm or sth like that, but i nvr felt seriously threatened physically by her. Maybe it’s bcoz i’m physically bigger and stronger. Also nvr broke anything of value. She broke an alarm clock or 2, hm... sth like that"
She is physically abusive and threatening. Her behaviors also probably frighten your children. She also is likely to get worse including escalating to more severe physical abuse. What you have now is probably the best your marriage will be for the rest of your marriage.
Having once been a therapist who, among other things, worked with families with domestic abuse, I would bet money that your wife is more verbally abusive and violent with your kids than she is with you. Abusers can be very good at hiding the results of their abuse. There are places or ways that one can physically abuse people without their showing physical signs.
And if she tells her kids things like she hates them, she will be leaving emotional scars that may take them a lifetime to heal.
Again: If I were you, I'd be documenting and recording her behavior and doing whatever it takes to fight for full custody of my children. It is possible to win such cases. For instance, one of my friends won full custody of a child that was the biological child of her lesbian partner (The child was born during their partnership, but they weren't married because gay marriage didn't exist then). The battle took a couple of years, but my friend won it, and her daughter remains very grateful and even as an adult arranged for and paid for herself to be legally adopted by the woman who had won custody.
workingonit said: "Now you have shared some horrible tid bits of info about your w that makes her seem psycho. If this is accurate I think you need therapy to ask why you are putting up with it. That seems to be less important to you than the sex q which is a reasonable place to start your self work. Does some part of you like the drama?"
I agree with workingonit's statement. I do not understand why you even want to have sex with a woman who treats you so vilely. To me your desire to have sex with her and your staying with her so long indicate a lack of compassion for yourself and a lack of knowledge about what is normal and expected in caring relationships. It is not normal or healthy for a person to say the things your wife said to you. It's not normal for people to hit each other or break things during arguments.
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nicky
Junior Member
Posts: 36
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Post by nicky on Jul 22, 2018 10:56:34 GMT -5
Thanks
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 22, 2018 11:15:13 GMT -5
Your view of the maid's life is very callous and lacks empathy.: "as to the maid, i’ve said it b4 and i’ll say it again, it’s not that i don’t want to protect the maid, but the maid has no vested interest in my family. I pay her 1 maid’s income to do 1/2 a maid’s job, with a difficult boss. If it’s a bad deal for her she can leave anytime. And i’m grateful for her service. But rly i think she’s a full grown adult she makes her own choice by staying here, and i believe this is what she chooses to do now. Maybe she’s emotionally stronger than i am so she takes criticism better. As to what my wife said to her, just repeated criticism for all small things done not to her specifications, daily domestic stuff."
The maid likely stays because she is DESPERATE for the money, and is likely to have far greater money concerns than you have. It is virtually impossible to support a family in the U.S. on the minimum wage or even a few dollars an hour above minimum wage. For even educated, highly skilled people, finding new jobs is difficult. Your maid likely is uneducated and unskilled. Prospective employers also may want references, and the maid may know or fear that she could not get a good reference from your family. Your wife's verbal abuse also likely has torn down your maid's self confidence just like it has torn down yours. She may somehow believe she deserves your wife's treatment. She, like you, may feel grateful when your wife doesn't express anger at her.
Not only do I choose not to be friends with people who verbally abuse or mistreat people in lower positions than theirs (for instance, I never chose to date again men who treated badly wait staff), I also choose not to be friends with people who lack the balls to speak up or take some kind of reasonable action if others are mistreated in front of them. I don't mean that I'd expect a man to jump into a fight, but I would expect a man to speak up if his wife were mistreating their maid as yours has mistreated your maid. Saying the maid should suck it up for good pay is not respecting her humanity or even her tears, and it doesn't reflect well on your own character. Your maid is in a weak situation when compared to you and your family. She is dependent upon your wages. She is not the one in charge and it would not be easy for her to leave.
If your boss berated you for two hours over trivia, could you just walk away from the job? How long do you think it would take you to find a new job? What would you fear about leaving? What would you have to consider before taking a new job? Would hours, distance, etc. be important? The same considerations exist for your maid except she may have even less reliable transportation than you have.
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