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Post by orangepeel on Aug 1, 2019 11:43:56 GMT -5
I know I haven’t had sex for seven years, but not even I would give 300 foot massages for one shag.
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Post by Apocrypha on Aug 1, 2019 12:58:52 GMT -5
I think that many of us labour under the same mis-apprehension - that deep down our spouses are secretly real root rats and if only we could find the key to let loose the root rat everything would be just dandy. The collective evidence in this group is that there actually is no dormant root rat just waiting to bust out, I dunno, how many stories here have followed up with the spouse, post-separation? Seems to be a trend I've seen on the old forum that they'd jump back into sex with renewed enthusiasm but with other people. Can't tell you how many women I've dated who had some version of that story, whether on the side of freezing out their own partner, or of being frozen out by a partner who went on to bring their love to town quite easily, once separated (or before). Deep down, even avowed aesexuals seem to recover miraculously, once they cut bait on a partner who they aren't interested in romantically, or find a situation or context that's more amenable to their needs than a married partnership.
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jgb
Junior Member
Posts: 32
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Post by jgb on Aug 2, 2019 20:07:29 GMT -5
this takes me back. My wife's go-to phrase for 'leave me alone' was to say, when I started to touch her, "stop fiddling". I haven't tried in more than a decade, but just the thought of that phrase makes me cringe. I stopped asking when the acceptance ratio dropped to... hell I don't even know how low it got... but also when I realized that, even if it took x number of tries for one success, that I was becoming revolted at the idea of sex with an unenthusiastic partner. Let's face it, a lot of what you are doing, the facial expressions, the noises you make, are down right embarrassing. Reminds me of that Norm McDonald bit about feeling ashamed the instant after you orgasm.
I can remember, in the very old days, when we were done, looking at each other afterwards and both thinking the same thing...let's just agree not to rehash this, shall we? she used to like it when I stuck my finger in her ass while going down on her, but if you used the phrase "finger in your ass" she would be horribly embarrassed. Cut to 20 odd years later and I being the only one who was excited, then, hell, I was embarrassed during , not after.
So I stopped asking, not only because of the sting of rejection, but also because actually succeeding led to a mortifying spectacle. You ask someone "who's your daddy?" and they roll their eyes? You never want to do that again.
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Post by nyctos on Aug 6, 2019 9:31:38 GMT -5
I know what you mean. My refuser did have a list of things as well, but now she just preemptively refuses if anything gets even close to actual intimacy. The closest I get to it is she had me massage her feet almost every night while she falls asleep (and no...if I move higher than the knees I get outright rejection.) Unless you've got a thing for feet, why do it at all? She's not into you, why are you supposed to be into her feet? No, I don't really have a thing for feet, at least for anyone who isn't willing to do anything else with me. However, it does get her to fall asleep faster, which is a benefit for me because typically it means she stops talking.
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Post by isthisit on Aug 6, 2019 11:07:23 GMT -5
Unless you've got a thing for feet, why do it at all? She's not into you, why are you supposed to be into her feet? No, I don't really have a thing for feet, at least for anyone who isn't willing to do anything else with me. However, it does get her to fall asleep faster, which is a benefit for me because typically it means she stops talking. 🤣 Liking doesn’t seem enough.
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Post by csl on Aug 6, 2019 14:16:07 GMT -5
Unless you've got a thing for feet, why do it at all? She's not into you, why are you supposed to be into her feet? No, I don't really have a thing for feet, at least for anyone who isn't willing to do anything else with me. However, it does get her to fall asleep faster, which is a benefit for me because typically it means she stops talking. Ditch the earbuds that come with your ipod and get noise-cancelling ones. They are great, and do just what they say. Then, voila! No need for feet, no need to hear unwanted talking. The only distraction might be if your wife is a good mime.
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Post by saarinista on Aug 7, 2019 0:48:50 GMT -5
I think that many of us labour under the same mis-apprehension - that deep down our spouses are secretly real root rats and if only we could find the key to let loose the root rat everything would be just dandy. The collective evidence in this group is that there actually is no dormant root rat just waiting to bust out, I dunno, how many stories here have followed up with the spouse, post-separation? Seems to be a trend I've seen on the old forum that they'd jump back into sex with renewed enthusiasm but with other people. Can't tell you how many women I've dated who had some version of that story, whether on the side of freezing out their own partner, or of being frozen out by a partner who went on to bring their love to town quite easily, once separated (or before). Deep down, even avowed aesexuals seem to recover miraculously, once they cut bait on a partner who they aren't interested in romantically, or find a situation or context that's more amenable to their needs than a married partnership. I'd say almost all of us on this forum are married to the wrong people. The stories here make me sad. If our refusers become hot to trot in new relationships, good for them. I'm all for everybody in the word being happy and loved up. We, the refused, in our new relationships , our refusers in their new gigs.... everybody. Few marriages discussed here seem to rejuvenate. But that doesn't mean the participants are incapable of sexual love. It does mean, probably, that they'll not find it in their current relationships. Not every marriage stays good forever. Other marriages were bad from the git go. Some people can tolerate it; others can't. I think it's best to move on to a more positive relationship even though that can be incredibly difficult. Life is short, and it's just really messed up to never have sex with your spouse. It's pathological and joyless. I don't want to live like that.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 7, 2019 1:15:18 GMT -5
saarinista, some philosophical fodder... “Till death do us part” wasn’t such the commitment a few centuries ago. Increased life expectancy comes with a whole new set of challenges, including marriages that are magically expected to last longer too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 12:56:43 GMT -5
saarinista , some philosophical fodder... “Till death do us part” wasn’t such the commitment a few centuries ago. Increased life expectancy comes with a whole new set of challenges, including marriages that are magically expected to last longer too. Sometimes I wonder about this too. At the time Shakespeare wrote "Romeo and Juliet" the life expectancy in most of Europe was 30-40 years old. Our favorite star crossed lovers were 13-16 so they were quite marriageable by the standards of the time for children in a wealthy family. So if they had lived to the ripe old age of 35, their marriage would have been 20 years. Then again, I'm a sucker for those stories of those couples in their late 80s who want their last moments with their spouse holding hands. Sniff, sniff.
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timedelay
Full Member
Posts: 153
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by timedelay on Aug 7, 2019 13:33:47 GMT -5
I used to do the foot massages before having sex but the sex was so "not there" and it was a way for my W to dump all her negativity on me, so I really didn't feel any love or connection. Several times having sex made me feel worse. If anyone wants to learn some good points about foot massage just look up Reflexology. Here is one video (no particular endorsement by me)
A local Reflexology practitioner actually has some people off of their meds and the people pass their blood work results. No woo-woo but I can't explain why their blood labs are in the normal range. However, the video is not in a class so people can eliminate needed medications. Another problem is Reflexology treatments cost a lot more than most medications and the treatments take 2 hours, one hour with your feet in some water and vibrating device and then another 50 min in the treatment chair with the therapist.
Having a reflexology treatment is among my favourite things and I have found it very beneficial for health and over all well being. I'm looking forward to my next appointment Handy. 40 euro for an hour. I pay the same amount for ten minutes with my GP.
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Post by Apocrypha on Aug 7, 2019 13:50:33 GMT -5
I dunno, how many stories here have followed up with the spouse, post-separation? Seems to be a trend I've seen on the old forum that they'd jump back into sex with renewed enthusiasm but with other people. Can't tell you how many women I've dated who had some version of that story, whether on the side of freezing out their own partner, or of being frozen out by a partner who went on to bring their love to town quite easily, once separated (or before). Deep down, even avowed aesexuals seem to recover miraculously, once they cut bait on a partner who they aren't interested in romantically, or find a situation or context that's more amenable to their needs than a married partnership. I'd say almost all of us on this forum are married to the wrong people. The stories here make me sad. If our refusers become hot to trot in new relationships, good for them. I'm all for everybody in the word being happy and loved up. We, the refused, in our new relationships , our refusers in their new gigs.... everybody. Few marriages discussed here seem to rejuvenate. But that doesn't mean the participants are incapable of sexual love. It does mean, probably, that they'll not find it in their current relationships. Not every marriage stays good forever. Other marriages were bad from the git go. Some people can tolerate it; others can't. I think it's best to move on to a more positive relationship even though that can be incredibly difficult. Life is short, and it's just really messed up to never have sex with your spouse. It's pathological and joyless. I don't want to live like that. It's probably useful (and helpful for some liberating forgiveness and an easier divorce), to understand why it's joyless and pathological. The obvious thing is because it's nice to have sex in one's life with someone who you want. It's important to understand that NEITHER partner has sex in their lives, and that in the refusing partner's story, he/she is the hero because they chose marriage over sex. We might say - well they are entirely in charge of whether they have sex or not if they have a willing partner. But that's not quite fair to them either, because they don't want to have sex with someone they don't want to have sex with. And that's you. And that's me. The misery is in understanding that on a deep down level, but it's a cognitive short circuit somehow until the fog lifts. When we're still down in it, we frame it as some kind of mistake or oversight. "When you don't show desire for me, it makes me feel like I am undesirable and unloved," we might say. It's framed like we are correcting etiquette, and that the partner is somehow sending the wrong message. Easily correctable behavior. But that isn't necessarily the case - a mistake. The most reasonable and likely explanation is that the lack of desire and sexual expression in the marriage is an accurate reading of how they feel - either about their partner, or of their marital situation. Change either one, and suddenly sex becomes really easy, and the threshold for "yes please," comparatively low. I think when the disconnection, alienation, disillusionment, or lie becomes so massive that it overrides even one's own natural sex drive - it's almost certainly too late. And that's usually the case here, when folks arrive saying "everything is great, barring the sex." No, it isn't. Whatever the problem, it usually occurred so long ago and the perception has gone unchallenged so long that it's unrecoverable - it's incorporated into the conception of who they are. Ask anyone whose partner has had an affair for example, or a divorce, how that doesn't just manifest as correctable behavior, but rather how it utterly changes your conception of what you thought was capable of happening in your relationship, or of the kind of person your partner is. There may be ways to compensate or adapt to the new reality - getting to know the person who is wearing your partner's skin, but it's fundamentally a new relationship at that point. There will never be another world where your partner is incapable of doing that. I've seen it in the story of a few relationships in my past. A common one seems to be a "survivor" relationship in which someone rootless and who suffered trauma or household turmoil as a kid, finds a savior in a relationship, and then, when life gets stable, no longer sees the benefit. They get into a parent/child dynamic in which each side triggers the other. I've seen one where early in the relationship, in circumstances that were too difficult to leave, one partner does or says something (perhaps evidence of an infidelity, like a minor STD) that isn't addressed head on, because the stakes are too high. The kids get older and the lie is adapted to, but it's always this asterisk - a thing unsaid. I've seen, a fair amount of mental illness and gender ideology exact a toll (I've seen that continue in their serial dating lives as well). I think a lot of the time, the source of the problem is too far in the past and too embedded to exhume by the time it has manifested externally as a sexual aversion to a person. It's heartbreaking, because often with the "everything's great but the sex" crowd, it seems that the celibacy is the only overt signal that something is significantly wrong - and they have no idea how significant that problem is.
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Post by saarinista on Aug 8, 2019 0:44:45 GMT -5
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Post by saarinista on Aug 8, 2019 1:01:03 GMT -5
saarinista, some philosophical fodder... “Till death do us part” wasn’t such the commitment a few centuries ago. Increased life expectancy comes with a whole new set of challenges, including marriages that are magically expected to last longer too. This is true. I think it's incredibly rare to find even a friendship that lasts even say 20 years, let alone a marriage that stays fully robust for that long or longer. Add to that the fact that people make decisions about whom to marry when they are young in order to have children and you add more problems. Few of us are fully developed in our twenties. (In fact, in my 50s I feel quite mixed up most of the time.) Many partners simply grow apart. 2 years ago, I was fully wedded to the idea that marriage was to be "until death do us part, " even if it was a grim slog. Back then, I believed that unless you were basically being beaten to a bloody pulp by your partner every day, you should probably stick it out. Because hey, marriage is a societal institution, right? We've got to have some stability here! I no longer feel that way. I emotionally outsourced, if you will, and I remembered how good it felt to be alive and connected. Years in a sexless marriage tend to make you forget that. Those years also tend to make you feel depressed, and destroy your self-esteem. Then one day you wake up and realize that the only thing holding you to your marriage is your psychopathology created by.... your marriage! That's a tough day. Sure, some marriages last forever. But we shouldn't say the ones that don't are failures, if you ask me. They're just shorter marriages.
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Post by workingonit on Aug 8, 2019 21:53:37 GMT -5
saarinista, some philosophical fodder... “Till death do us part” wasn’t such the commitment a few centuries ago. Increased life expectancy comes with a whole new set of challenges, including marriages that are magically expected to last longer too. This is true. I think it's incredibly rare to find even a friendship that lasts even say 20 years, let alone a marriage that stays fully robust for that long or longer. Add to that the fact that people make decisions about whom to marry when they are young in order to have children and you add more problems. Few of us are fully developed in our twenties. (In fact, in my 50s I feel quite mixed up most of the time.) Many partners simply grow apart. 2 years ago, I was fully wedded to the idea that marriage was to be "until death do us part, " even if it was a grim slog. Back then, I believed that unless you were basically being beaten to a bloody pulp by your partner every day, you should probably stick it out. Because hey, marriage is a societal institution, right? We've got to have some stability here! I no longer feel that way. I emotionally outsourced, if you will, and I remembered how good it felt to be alive and connected. Years in a sexless marriage tend to make you forget that. Those years also tend to make you feel depressed, and destroy your self-esteem. Then one day you wake up and realize that the only thing holding you to your marriage is your psychopathology created by.... your marriage! That's a tough day. Sure, some marriages last forever. But we shouldn't say the ones that don't are failures, if you ask me. They're just shorter marriages. I could have written this! A tough day indeed. My h used to say that he loved my point of view on marriage because it made him feel safe.
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Post by Handy on Aug 10, 2019 23:00:29 GMT -5
Timedelay I'm looking forward to my next appointment Handy. 40 euro for an hour.
Yes, sure and the first one is no charge. I haven't done it to a woman for a long time and might need a few sessions to get it correct. One minor problem is an ocean and part of a continent in distance for the two of us to be in the same location. Maybe another "go fund me" is in order.
BTW, you would be the younger woman in my life if that happened. I always told myself to work on women my age, but I think I can make an exception in this case.
Unlike the other recent flash romance between Isthisit, etc, no cameras or recordings of any type, no rough stuff like deadzone said he would endure. I am a boy-scout some of the time and insist on serving well and that is a 2-way street. Nothing fancy, just decent service.
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