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Post by worksforme2 on May 19, 2016 8:27:15 GMT -5
I am so sorry for what this man is putting you through. The dissolution of a marriage should not look like this. Normally I am a live and let live sort of guy only wishing good things for others. But here I think I would make an exception. I really think at this point you need to adopt the attitude of taking no prisoners. That would definitely include voicing his failure as a man to provide the comfort and intimacy any woman should expect in a martial relationship. It would be "death before dishonor" for me with this guy. If it comes to an evidentiary hearing with testimony then nothing is off the table. You can be pretty confident if he is on the stand you aren't going to come off unscathed. Time to take off the gloves and go looking for some blood.
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Post by deborahmanning on May 19, 2016 8:34:07 GMT -5
@ Fiery, Can I ask, what does "the case was rested" mean here?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 8:38:42 GMT -5
I am so sorry for what this man is putting you through. The dissolution of a marriage should not look like this. Normally I am a live and let live sort of guy only wishing good things for others. But here I think I would make an exception. I really think at this point you need to adopt the attitude of taking no prisoners. That would definitely include voicing his failure as a man to provide the comfort and intimacy any woman should expect in a martial relationship. It would be "death before dishonor" for me with this guy. If it comes to an evidentiary hearing with testimony then nothing is off the table. You can be pretty confident if he is on the stand you aren't going to come off unscathed. Time to take off the gloves and go looking for some blood. Frankly the idea of being put on the stand is utterly terrifying to me. To be asked to defend yourself as a wife and mother is awful. Of course there were times when I wasn't a good wife - weeks when the house was messy or I only cooked three times, but do those scattered weeks completely negate months and months of cooking dinner every night and keeping the house clean, if not neat? How do I deny that I screwed up sometimes and yet present a more balanced and accurate picture? I can't imagine myself just boldly saying he's a liar (well, there are some things that are complete lies, but most have some element of truth), but if I admit to part of it, I'm afraid it will look like I'm agreeing. I try to stop this little cycle of panic by reminding myself that 1) it may not come to this and 2) my lawyer will prepare me if it does.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 8:57:36 GMT -5
I met with my lawyer today to go over our response to my STBX's latest madness. When I walked in, she put a stack of papers in front of me - over 75 pages of material she received from his lawyer yesterday. (This is new stuff, not what we were scheduled to talk about.) She warned me that there was some upsetting material that I would need to read and discuss with her. She briefly explained the purpose of each document, then left me to read through them. I got through most of it okay. I could see the gamesmanship going on and only had a few questions. Then I got to a set of papers labeled "Declaration of Mr. Mountain Runner in Opposition to Request for Order." (He is referring to my request for temporary support orders.) It was seven pages of the most horrible things he could find to say about me, some out and out lies, some twisted truth and an enormous amount of misrepresenting situations by leaving out critical pieces of information. Essentially he accused me of being lazy, being a bad wife, a bad mother and taking advantage of him over the years. I was stunned at how viciously he attacked me. Including this long litany of complaints and claims of all the extra work he had to do with the house and the children. One of my favorites is that he "contributed to getting our daughter to school every week." Hello Asshat, you drove her twice a week (for one year mind you) while I was driving carpool every morning for our son. How the F was I supposed to drive two carpools at once? No mention of the fact that I drove carpool every afternoon also - half of the days for my sons carpool, the other half for our daughter's carpool. And this was one the "nicer" things he said. I'm trying to look at this from the judge's point of view - he sounds like a whiny, petty prick. So from a legal standpoint, his "declaration" is probably going to actually hurt him. A hearing for temporary support orders really isn't the place for this kind of thing (if there even is a place for it). But I can't help being hurt by all of it. Reading through his statements, it sounds like he is talking about someone he despises. Regardless of how angry I've gotten at him at times, I have never lied about him or said intentionally hurtful things about him (other than here or with friends where its appropriate). And then just to scare me even more, his lawyer says she will be putting me on the stand to answer questions. And before you ask, yes they CAN do that. It just isn't something they can do in a temporary support hearing and according to my lawyer, it's just weird. She can't decide if his attorney is crazy or just doesn't understand family law at all. If they insist on an evidentiary hearing, it will have to be scheduled separately and will take at least three months to be placed on the court docket. My lawyer seems confident she can get the judge to still issue temporary support orders on June 2nd and not make me wait another three months. She's also certain that the judge is going to be very annoyed by all of these shenanigans and has made sure that our response to their teetering pile of paper is a nice, concise four pages long. I'm trying not to be rattled by all of this, but it's hard. My brain looks at it and sees that they are only making things worse for themselves. The rest of me bounces between scared and hurt. There's no way we can come out of this friends now, not after his "declaration. I wonder how he would feel if I "declared" the truth of our marriage, how he would like to see "refused to have sexual intercourse with his wife for over thirteen years" in a legal document. I'm not going to say it can't get any worse, because apparently there are no depths to which he will not sink. I wonder what fun he has in store for me next. I've read stories from many on here but not all, I'm sure. Even so, @mountainrunner helped me gain perspective on many of you gathered. Each of us has problems. Some are acute; some are festering. Others problems have passed but still somehow burden us with their echoes. Compared to those of many, however, my problems are few, circumscribed and (often) self-inflicted. In fact, my problems can be addressed largely through playful self-ridicule. By contrast, many of you are battling for dignity and autonomy at a minimum but perhaps even survival at the extreme. Based on this realization, I am going to address this to @mountainrunner . But, in so doing, I am also really speaking to many others: You are far tougher than I am, and your resolve is greater. You will break free. You will be happy with who you are and who you are becoming. Be smart in your fight, and always sensibly and humanely protect yourself and your offspring. But, where necessary, take no prisoners and show no mercy for the tyrant.
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Post by DryCreek on May 19, 2016 10:59:49 GMT -5
@mountainrunner , I wouldn't bank on things improving in the long run, unfortunately. Fight for today.
People who behave like your H tend to be bitter and selfish and seek opportunities for conflict. How much that perpetuates will probably depend on whether he's effective at pushing your buttons. (My BIL, who loves to get wound up, and his ex, who loves to wind him up... they've kept the battle going for over a decade; the last one is almost 18.)
As someone mentioned, his behavior is underscoring your decision to divorce. Looking back later, there will be no questioning your logic.
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Post by itsjustus on May 19, 2016 17:35:35 GMT -5
I am so sorry for what this man is putting you through. The dissolution of a marriage should not look like this. Normally I am a live and let live sort of guy only wishing good things for others. But here I think I would make an exception. I really think at this point you need to adopt the attitude of taking no prisoners. That would definitely include voicing his failure as a man to provide the comfort and intimacy any woman should expect in a martial relationship. It would be "death before dishonor" for me with this guy. If it comes to an evidentiary hearing with testimony then nothing is off the table. You can be pretty confident if he is on the stand you aren't going to come off unscathed. Time to take off the gloves and go looking for some blood. Frankly the idea of being put on the stand is utterly terrifying to me. To be asked to defend yourself as a wife and mother is awful. Of course there were times when I wasn't a good wife - weeks when the house was messy or I only cooked three times, but do those scattered weeks completely negate months and months of cooking dinner every night and keeping the house clean, if not neat? How do I deny that I screwed up sometimes and yet present a more balanced and accurate picture? I can't imagine myself just boldly saying he's a liar (well, there are some things that are complete lies, but most have some element of truth), but if I admit to part of it, I'm afraid it will look like I'm agreeing. I try to stop this little cycle of panic by reminding myself that 1) it may not come to this and 2) my lawyer will prepare me if it does. Oh @mountainrunner no. Judges do not care about messy houses, or un-cooked meals, not one bit! They don't care at all about any of that. What they care about is legal injury and intent. Did you purposefully intend to legally injure him with the messy house? Was your intent to starve him by only cooking three times? No, of course not. Judges will certainly not get involved in a tit for tat argument on who was the better spouse to whom. And if there's an element of truth to most of what he say's, say so, first. You're not agreeing, your stating facts. Honestly. THAT...judges pay attention to.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 19:03:06 GMT -5
I can't say this with certainty, because you cannot count on fairness in the law, but generally this sort of thing pisses off judges for wasting their time and it will come back to bite him. Not only that but can you imagine how much money he wasted on this?
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Post by unmatched on May 19, 2016 19:11:32 GMT -5
I totally second what itsjustus just said. If your hearing is about division of assets then none of that stuff is relevant and the judge won't be interested at all. If your husband is trying to sue for full custody or something like that (which seems extraordinarily unlikely given he is an awful father and a selfish prick who wouldn't want the responsibility), then whether or not you are a good mother might become relevant. But even then they are going to care about whether you are on drugs or psychotic and unfit to be around the kids, not how clean you kept the house or how many times a week you cooked. All that stuff is just hurtful and vindictive and completely meaningless from a judge's point of view. Trust your lawyer, keep things as clear and simple as you can, and you will be fine.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 20:14:11 GMT -5
What a f***ing useless whiny pathetic piece of s**t he is!!! I guess at least he has burned his bridges and you no longer need to worry about what is going to happen between the two of you after the divorce. You can now just focus entirely on what you need to do to get through it as cleanly and quickly as you can. The good side is that if your lawyer is right (and I suspect she is), his lawyer doesn't seem to have a clue what she is doing. It sounds like she is more used to ambulance chasing and trying to scare people into settlements than dealing with a family court where a judge will actually sit down and look at both sides. And JMX was right yesterday - time to go on the attack. Not for this hearing, because it isn't the place for it, but if they try and drag you into an evidentiary hearing then you should do whatever your lawyer wants and not hold anything back. And damn right you should put it in a legal document that he wouldn't fuck you for 13 years. At this point I would put it in the newspaper! I will chip in for a billboard on the nearest interstate. Stating something to the effect of: Beware of Mr Mountainrunner! He's about to be released into the dating world but 1) he's being a dick and won't give me an easy divorce AND 2) he doesn't like sex so don't plan on getting to use his dick. Count me in on that billboard! @mountainrunner you are a fuckin' LADY for holding your head up high through all this. You WILL make it!! I just want to string his cowardly ass up and throat punch him for you...or cover his weenie ass in honey and unleashed bees and mosquitoes on him.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 20:37:32 GMT -5
I totally second what itsjustus just said. If your hearing is about division of assets then none of that stuff is relevant and the judge won't be interested at all. If your husband is trying to sue for full custody or something like that (which seems extraordinarily unlikely given he is an awful father and a selfish prick who wouldn't want the responsibility), then whether or not you are a good mother might become relevant. But even then they are going to care about whether you are on drugs or psychotic and unfit to be around the kids, not how clean you kept the house or how many times a week you cooked. All that stuff is just hurtful and vindictive and completely meaningless from a judge's point of view. Trust your lawyer, keep things as clear and simple as you can, and you will be fine. This is partly what is so weird - this is a hearing to set temporary support orders and that's it. It's a 20 minute slot on the court docket. If they want to do all this crazy stuff, they will have to request another hearing which will take another three months to get (at least). My lawyer still thinks I should leave with temporary orders regardless of what they try. The judge was already pissed off at my STBX for not giving me any support the last two months, so she isn't likely to appreciate them trying to delay support orders even further.
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Post by JMX on May 19, 2016 21:50:38 GMT -5
@mountainrunner - exactly what itsjustus and unmatched said. Holy hell. I have a friend trying to get full custody of her children cause her husband has a pill problem. He took about $100k out of their accounts (including college funds) and because she tried to reconcile and get him help only for him to start back up again after a month. A MONTH - back at payday loans. He is still doing drugs. And because she let him back in for a month - her case is harder to prove that she is concerned for the SAFETY of her children. Their SAFETY!! No one cares about your "occasionally" messy house or that the prick of a husband had to take HIS SON to school on a blue moon. Holy shit, pass the eggnog!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's say you were the mayor of Slobville for sake of argument. We're not talking about being a hoarder with 100 cats (including dead ones under various pieces of furniture or behind boxes) and your child and husband are allergic to cats. That might be worthy of mention! This is not. It will not matter one iota. You're "accomplished" and "successful" STBX must be a fucking moron. He couldn't even hire a competent attorney. I pray she asks you why you left. Dear God, Please have Mr. mountainrunner's attorney ask Mountainrunner why she is getting divorced. Please give Mountainrunner the strength to answer honestly that her husband is a non-sexual, emotionally abusive fuckwit. Please let her wipe a tear as she describes how terrible her marriage was. Please let the judge be a fair, sexually refused man that thinks Mountainrunner is kind of hot. Please let the gavel pound down on Mr. MR and that he loses more than the fair deal she laid out for being a douchebag. Please let the judge admonish Mr. MR's attorney for being stupid during the hearing. Amen Hold your head high! Smile that those times the house may have been a bit messy must have bugged him. Laugh at his discomfort taking HIS SON to school those couple of times and how you must have RUINED his day. Fuck. Him. Up.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 22:30:21 GMT -5
JMX, I think I love you! I am laughing so hard right now. I think I'm going to read your prayer every night before bed so I can go to sleep with a huge smile on my face.
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Post by unmatched on May 19, 2016 22:50:24 GMT -5
JMX I want to like that about 10 times! Maybe if we all pray hard enough the fuckwit will get sent to jail for emotional abuse, or for trying to waste the court's time with meaningless bullshit. Or at least have his lawyer struck off for incompetence.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 22:51:42 GMT -5
@mountainrunner, I'm so sorry he's doing this to you. My husband has made all those unfounded comments to me in the marriage so I can only imagine how would try to malign my character if I tried to get OUT of the marriage.
Take a deep breath and remind yourself that YOU are not the crazy one here, sounds like he's got that role all locked up. He's scrambling. He doesn't have a thing to hang his hat on, so he's making it up. Ignore it. I know it's beyond hard. But those insults likely come from a place of deep-seated insecurity in him and oftentimes, they are projection. The very insults he's hurling at you, well, they're actually true about HIM.
Hang on to the validation you got from your daughter the other night. That came from her heart - it is the TRUTH. I can tell without ever meeting or talking to you, just from a few of your posts and from what your daughter said, that you were/are an AWESOME mom. Don't let him make you doubt that. Hang on to it tightly. It's all yours.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 0:01:07 GMT -5
Everybody else gave good advice, so I will try not to get repetitive here. I will just add - I like the way your lawyer thinks. Responding to his mountain of paper by submitting a simple, 4-page document is the way to go. Judges have a lot of work to do; they take in loads of information on different cases every day - and good judges rightfully get pissed off at attempts to obstruct the process.
I think you have a good lawyer and you should follow her instructions EXACTLY. This process will be difficult, and will take longer than it should. But try not to just want it to be over, so badly that you make mistakes. That is exactly what your STBX and his lawyer want!
I would add that if you do use the lack of sexual intimacy against him - be very careful. It would be easy for him to turn things around and make it look like that was your fault - and humiliate you in public. Follow your lawyer's advice regarding this.
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