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Post by james on Mar 19, 2018 11:16:06 GMT -5
Hi all, here I am again with an update. My main two previous threads are here: iliasm.org/thread/3827/threatening-leave-form-coercioniliasm.org/thread/4115/progressing-more-rapidly-anticipatedMy wife and I have had several more conversations since I last posted in January. We are gradually moving towards a divorce. All the people who warned me to be careful what I wished for in giving my wife five years' notice of my possible departure -if things didn't change- were dead right. My wife was not happy about what I said and has accused me of threatening her and attempting to coerce her (I said that it was just honesty). She is not prepared for us to continue in any sort of relationship now that I have said what I said and wants to divorce now (or, very soon). She hasn't even offered me a reset. I gotta admire how she sticks to her principles. One point that's worth making, I think. Knowing that this is her position *now* instead of discovering it in 5 years' time is hugely valuable to me. It is totally clear to me from her position on this that there is no chance that we will ever have the sexual relationship that I would like us to have. And I have learnt something else: knowing that that is the case, I don't want to stick around. As long as we are together, I will be miserable. That will never change. If I'd said nothing and waited 5 more years, what is the chance that the outcome would have been different? I'd say not much. I'd like it if other people on this forum who are wondering what to do could learn from my experience with this. Please don't squander the capital of your lives in waiting and hoping. I have no regrets at all in saying what I did. I have a couple of questions. I asked her what she thought about us continuing to cohabit, in order to soften the blow for the kids. She's not having any of it. Could people with experience of divorce say how realistic it is that a couple can 'separate' but still cohabit? I said to my wife, as others on here have said: we need to scrap the toxic wasteland that is our previous relationship and try to put the whole thing on a different footing- that is, we can be co-parents, friends, business partners, but not in a sexual relationship- this latter part is removed from the table. My anger and frustration would at that point disappear and we could (potentially) get on just fine. She won't do it so I guess that's that, and she's probably right. Second, the one bit I haven't addressed is how to look after the kids through the process, including how to break the news to them. Could anyone recommend some resources on this one? shamwow I will read your T minus thread in full. My wife has had a look on the forum. She googled 'sexless marriage' and found it. Her comment was that 'it is full of angry people trying to separate from their partners or have affairs'. Couldn't really argue with that - pretty much spot on!
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Post by shamwow on Mar 19, 2018 11:39:00 GMT -5
Could you give a reminder how old and gender of your kids? That makes a HUGE difference.
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Post by james on Mar 19, 2018 11:59:18 GMT -5
16, 15, 11, girl, boy, boy
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 19, 2018 12:04:38 GMT -5
“Could people with experience of divorce say how realistic it is that a couple can 'separate' but still cohabit? “
For most it would not be possible or would be so uncomfortable as to create a miserable environment for the kids. For financial reasons, I cohabited with my husband for about a year before divorcing him. We led our lives completely separately — no shared meals, social activities, no shared bedroom. We never argued. We lived like roommates who were simply acquaintances. Our kids were grown and living so far away that they never came home during that time. It would have been a bleak situation to raise kids in. It also would have given our kids a warped idea of what a marriage should be like.
Also have you thought about how you and your wife would handle dating? Even if you don’t plan to date, she may have such plans. It would be hard to find romantic partners while still living with your ex.
Would it be possible to live in the same neighborhood instead of living together?
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 19, 2018 12:08:15 GMT -5
I’ve read it’s best to tell kids about divorce during the school year while they can get support from friends, school counselors and teachers.
I’ve also read it’s important to realize their concerns will be about themselves- where they will live, whether they still will be able to attend extracurricular, college. And don’t try to get them to take sides.
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Post by Apocrypha on Mar 19, 2018 12:20:48 GMT -5
No. It isn't realistic. Once the trajectory is set, the cohabitation period is a thousand times harder than whatever existed before.
The rules are all different. The mutual anger and hurt gets directed at each other and enacted in any number of ways, such as leaving the phone open to a personals ad, to arguing with you while you are naked in the shower. The juxtaposition of household intimacy assumptions are not well aligned, and the IMMEDIATE introduction of third parties or making room for the possibility of them entering your spouse's picture - change everything - including your own tolerance levels for base level bullshit and the extent to which you and she are prepared to put up with each other and negotiate, while having EVEN LESS leverage over each other than you began with.
I say that having a "close separation" with my ex. Initially, we tried a "bird's nest separation" - google it up. It didn't work because she came to view the off-site apt as "her home" and despite agreeing to our terms of "hoteling" the apt, ensured that I had to change her sex sheets. Oops? Ya right.
There are financial and child care benefits if your household is financially integrated and the kids are young, but the cost is that it IS harder emotionally for whomever is being "left" in the marriage. It takes longer to let go and to heal. It took nearly two years before I could dissociate my physical attraction from her, and it seems the people who I know did a clean cut found closure much sooner.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 19, 2018 13:02:17 GMT -5
This is not much, but I hope it helps.
My situation is in flux, but, at the moment we are effectively separated while we work through our divorce and cohabitating.
We have had some tense moments, as there is a lot of raw emotion, but I think it is workable.
Important details: 1) Our house is big enough that we cross paths, but not much. I have my own room. She has hers.
2) We are civil. We do not discuss divorce matters in front of the kids. There is no history of abuse or violence.
In my case, I do not see this as a long term deal, but, a transition to make things easier for my youngest, who is still two years from launch.
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Post by ihadalove on Mar 19, 2018 22:20:36 GMT -5
My wife has had a look on the forum. She googled 'sexless marriage' and found it. Her comment was that 'it is full of angry people trying to separate from their partners or have affairs'. Couldn't really argue with that - pretty much spot on! If that's what she got out of reading here, she isn't paying attention or isn't capable of any empathy towards those posting here (or towards you). All I see here are people looking for love and connection in a way that they strongly need it. Looks like you made a good decision.
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Post by baza on Mar 19, 2018 23:52:14 GMT -5
First bit here is basically for newbies to consider - BEFORE you start talking divorce you need your legal advice, and a do-able exit strategy in two parts - #1 - on your preferred timing #2 - on a real real short term basis in the event of a big blow up
Anyway, re the kids Like most people, kids are vitally interested in how such an event is going to affect them. Who is going to pony up my allowance ? Will there be a car for me to borrow still ? Will I have to change schools ? Who will I live with ? ...that sort of thing.
If you have been a half reasonable parent up to this point, you will have been educating them that life delivers kicks up the arse as a matter of course, and the three of them will likely handle this disruption in their own different ways. One might need a heap of reassurance, another not so much, another might fall somewhere between those two extremes. You know your kids best, and what resources might be required. Set a good example in your dealings with their mother (but don't expect her to reciprocate) as you are now modelling how to respectfully end a relationship (a lesson that they will have need of in the fairly near future for the 16 and 15 year olds) and also setting an example of the necessity in life to make difficult choices.
It is actually a great (and super painful) opportunity for you to ramp up your relationships with your kids to the next level. Much of our personal growth has its' genesis in adversity.
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 20, 2018 1:46:41 GMT -5
One point that's worth making, I think. Knowing that this is her position *now* instead of discovering it in 5 years' time is hugely valuable to me. It is totally clear to me from her position on this that there is no chance that we will ever have the sexual relationship that I would like us to have. Congratulations... for successfully cutting 5 years out of the process. Not that it's too surprising, mind you. Most of the time, long-range plans here get short-circuited to become short-term plans. Time is the most precious commodity any of us have, and it makes me cringe when people are willing to sacrifice years of their life.
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Post by tirefire on Mar 23, 2018 19:26:36 GMT -5
My wife has had a look on the forum. She googled 'sexless marriage' and found it. Her comment was that 'it is full of angry people trying to separate from their partners or have affairs'. Couldn't really argue with that - pretty much spot on! If that's what she got out of reading here, she isn't paying attention or isn't capable of any empathy towards those posting here (or towards you). All I see here are people looking for love and connection in a way that they strongly need it. Looks like you made a good decision. Of course everyone here is angry! They aren't getting any and haven't for a long time! Seriously though, this is the most positive community I've ever encountered on the internet. I rarely see any conflict here, only support for people who really need it.
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Post by snowman12345 on Mar 24, 2018 5:07:07 GMT -5
I can't tell you how cohabitation works from experience. I do however, ask people this information on a daily basis. There are a few that tell me they are divorced, but live with their ex-spouse. There are usually children involved and mostly one parent stays home with the kids and the other works. (male and female providers seem relatively equal - no statistic, just observation of a microcosm) There are just a handful of these people out of thousands that I see. So, my guess is that it rarely works.
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Post by Pinkberry on Mar 25, 2018 13:35:04 GMT -5
Congratulations on figuring out how to reduce your misery by five years! Make no mistake that is exactly what you have done. You are correct in thinking that nothing would have changed by waiting an additional five years.
I think if possible, both parents should have a brief, but candid discussion with the children about divorcing. This should ideally be a brief conversation wherein you state that you have mutually decided that you no longer wish to be married because you don't feel about one another as you used to, you do not yet know the details of who will live where as that takes some time to work out, you KNOW that both of you are committed to the children and will do whatever is necessary to ensure that you are both still able to spend time with the kids as you do now and to continue to be involved in their activities. If there are no extreme emotions (consider yourselves lucky), give them each a big hug and tell them that you realize that a change like this is big and will take time to get used to, so they should feel free to come to you if they have any questions. If there are extreme emotions, try not to let that fester by going to them individually, comforting them, and telling them the same as above. Acknowledging that this will be hard for everyone is important and letting them know that you will be there no matter what, even though you can't necessarily make it so that divorce isn't hard.
I do not have personal experience cohabiting after announcing divorce plans. I do have experience cohabiting after internally deciding my marriage was over and after my (now ex) spouse announced that he would just be miserable and never have sex again so that we could be there for the kids. It was just as miserable as before. The refuser continued to sport the high horse attitude wherein he felt justified in being a total asshole, but it removed the last barrier of decency whereby he had ever felt the need to fake being a good guy. All that was dropped, so in effect it was worse. If a situation like that is meant to be long term, it would get very uncomfortable. I think a lot of the refused assume that they will be dating because they want sex and want connection. It may be that you would date first, which regardless of the situation will create jealousy by the other party. The refuser has wallowed in controlling your life up to that point and not being in control will cause issues. But frankly, I think the more likely scenario is that the refuser will begin to date first and will, regardless of the logic in it, begin fucking someone else on the regular. It will create a real sense of WTF and WTF is wrong with me whom the refuser was supposed to love, but now the refuser is fucking some stranger and bringing that person into my children's lives? That will be hugely uncomfortable, and acutely so if you are living together.
Best of luck in making the exit plan that will be right for you and your family!
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