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Post by WindSister on Feb 8, 2018 7:16:10 GMT -5
Mark Manson has a couple Must Reads on this topic. I will leave the links here. markmanson.net/change-your-mindmarkmanson.net/amazing-personmarkmanson.net/manipulative-relationshipsFrom personal experience, I will share the following, take it or leave it. I met 50 some men during my dating years. Yesterday I was questioning my looks because not once did a man paw or attack me (without cues from me) and it seems it happens to other women all the time (I am not being snarky here, it bugged me because I had no clue, and of course had to question it). Am I just that ugly??? Or was I attracting a different type of man? I would like to think the latter, please!!  Though, I know for some I was just too ugly. I was flat out rejected based on looks alone (instant, mean spirited rejection) five times (to my face, anyway. Probably thousands of more times based on my picture alone). Only one of those times was I attracted to the man rejecting me and that one hurt because he told me to my face I was too fat for him. The other ones were done harshly, too, but those men, in my opinion, were not up to snuff either!!! One was 300 pounds himself as he looked ME up and down in disgust. Rejection sucks in the moment, but you can come out a better person for it...a walk in humility grows compassion. You also start flexing your self esteem muscles...true confidence doesn't mean you think you are better than others, it simply means you like yourself and you don't need other's approval. This is a muscle worth working out. I say this only for those who question seriously if they are pretty enough or handsome enough to date. You might not join in on conversations, but I know you are out there. Yes, you are enough...for some people. Ignore the ones who you aren't enough for, you don't need them.
Everyone gets rejected at some point. You could be the sweetest, juiciest peach on the tree, but someone will come along who freaking can't stand peaches. Believe it. Edited to add: If I can get over a good looking man saying, "You are sweet, but you are just too fat for me," TO MY FACE IN PUBLIC, trust me, you can get over rejection, too. That one hurt in the moment so bad, but note: I do not hate him. I was hurt, but in the end, it is a relief he was so honest. No, it didn't cause me to change - I am still the same gal here!! But, I have a bit more compassion for myself and others and I genuinely like "me" -- fatness and all. You will also need to reject others. My advise there is be honest, but be kind. You don't have to destroy someone in the process. I wasn't into all the rest of the men. I had to say quite a lot, "It was nice to meet you, but I am sorry, I am just not feeling a connection." After a few dates or even if we had sex and I wasn't feeling it should go further, I had to break it off. I did it honestly. It takes a lot of guts to date. It takes a lot of courage for someone to approach you and ask you out or agree to meet for coffee. Be honest but be kind. On the flip side of that same coin, nobody "owes" anyone ANYTHING. If you are rejected nicely and still angry, look in the mirror, you have some issues to work out. If we attract one type of person and we don't like that type, we need to look at ourselves and seriously ask what kind of energy we are emitting. I had mostly great experiences, but I LIKE men. I don't put them on pedestals and I don't fear them. I was truly interested in getting to know them. It was fascinating to me...I met many types and noticed how I responded to everyone. I learned what I liked and didn't like and who I truly am and wanted to be. Sure in the early days I morphed a lot and was clingy and needy. I didn't (& wouldn't) marry anyone at that point...no true harm done. I learned. I improved. Not to say I was "always" needy and/or clingy - sometimes the men were, too. I owned my sexuality. At first I met men only on sex dating sites. Therefore, I had FWB, No Strings Attached sex. I don't regret any of it. None of these led to a relationship, and when I wanted more, I went else where. Edited to add (I have so many after thoughts all the time!!): In the beginning I DID use sex as a "security blanket." Some really warn against this, but I am telling you, it got me through the darkest times and worked FOR ME. I get how it might not work for others. You can judge that as slutty behavior, but again - not one once of regret from this woman. I would do it all the same again. It was great until it wasn't and then I approached things differently. Now, I have the memories. I had one experience that I would say was NOT good, but I ignored the warning signs as neon as they were. I had reverted momentarily back to needy/clingy. That experience was a turning point for me, though, and immediately after I got my shit together. My journal proves it. I blocked/deleted all men from my phone, told myself I just hadn't met "him" yet and vowed to be good to myself, respect myself and hold out for what I deserve. Cue: "Him." I was ready. He was ready. There were no games, no manipulation. Just desire to get to know each other, take things slow and see where it goes. And the rest is history. That is not to say it's as "neat" as it appears on paper, so don't compare your life to this story. Or anyone's. Know yourself. Be kind to yourself and others. It will all be okay. |
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Post by misssunnybunny on Feb 8, 2018 17:13:38 GMT -5
Rejection sucks in the moment, but you can come out a better person for it...a walk in humility grows compassion. You also start flexing your self esteem muscles...true confidence doesn't mean you think you are better than others, it simply means you like yourself and you don't need other's approval. This is a muscle worth working out. I say this only for those who question seriously if they are pretty enough or handsome enough to date. You might not join in on conversations, but I know you are out there. Yes, you are enough...for some people. Ignore the ones who you aren't enough for, you don't need them.
Everyone gets rejected at some point. You could be the sweetest, juiciest peach on the tree, but someone will come along who freaking can't stand peaches. Believe it. It takes a lot of guts to date. It takes a lot of courage for someone to approach you and ask you out or agree to meet for coffee. Be honest but be kind. It will all be okay. Thanks for this. I know enough about myself to be me and look for someone who accepts me for me, but it is a good reminder to continue working on feeling positive about me (some days this is more difficult than others!) and knowing that one day I will find that person who wants me for me  |
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Post by baza on Feb 8, 2018 18:39:05 GMT -5
I'm not 100% sure where I am going with this, but I've got a half baked theory about "attraction" and I think the ILIASM family is a pretty good data base for an experiment that would confirm what Sister WindSister is getting at. If you have been a member here for a while, you have probably seen a fair number of posts by individual members. And, I figure that you have formed some sort of an impression of these individual members, their attitudes, their general life philosophy and a general picture of what you figure they are like. Without ever talking to them or seeing them. It would be interesting for the members to note who - if any - of the members here they feel any level of attraction to (setting aside for the purpose of this exercise whether you could act on that attraction) based entirely on what people have revealed in their contributions to this group. I am betting that the ILIASM group would reflect the exact same thing Sister WindSister refers to. A wide divergence of attraction. ALL the chicks here are not going to be attracted to the same bloke on here. There'll be divergent opinion. ALL the blokes are not going to be attracted to the same chick here. There'll be divergent opinion. Now there is no way (that I can think of) of running such an experiment without "naming names" so I am certainly NOT proposing that we go down that road - but what do you think of the theory ? There's roughly 1,000 members here, approx 500 blokes and 500 chicks and I have a great deal of respect for them all. Without giving names away, as a heterosexual old bloke, there is a handful of chicks here that, if I was theoretically single, and if they were theoretically available, I would be theoretically interested enough to try and get to know better. There would of course be no guarantee that any of these handful of chicks had the slightest reciprocal interest in return. How about you ? Out of this sample of 500 women and 500 blokes, are you attracted to all of them ? Some of them ? A few ? None ? I am betting that your theoretical list of who you have some attraction to in here will not be large, just as Sister WindSister observations about society in general. And your theoretical list - as ILIASM Member 156 - will be quite different to the theoretical list of ILIASM Member 994 or 812 or 3 or 49 or 111 or 632 etc etc etc. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 8, 2018 18:57:47 GMT -5
baza, you number guys never cease to amaze me! I will have to go back and read your post again, only a bit slower and with more concentration this time. I tend to seek out feeling, emotion... numbers feel cold to me. BUT, I absolutely appreciate your take on this and look forward to someone responding to your theory. I am betting I agree, I just need to confirm it with another read-through. Ha! Side note, thank you for not naming names or it turns into another middle school popularity contest and I am so over those games. There's always the one everyone wants. Male/Female. On the surface anyway. Dating is a shallow game till you find the one willing to go deep.
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Post by DryCreek on Feb 8, 2018 19:35:28 GMT -5
baza... no awkwardness if members only learned about a match if the other person swipes their profile too. You could play along to study the statistics, but the membership *might* participate for other reasons. We could call it "Tinder". I'll be right back... I'm off to register that domain name and an IPO!
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Post by WindSister on Feb 8, 2018 20:02:40 GMT -5
baza... no awkwardness if members only learned about a match if the other person swipes their profile too. You could play along to study the statistics, but the membership *might* participate for other reasons. We could call it "Tinder". I'll be right back... I'm off to register that domain name and an IPO! Noooooo!!!! Cruising off into the sunset.... No, seriously, yes, I agree with Baza. Handful, and wouldn't be the same as another member's choices. The dating world can feel brutal. But it's the same for everyone. It actually is a numbers game. As an average gal (and I don't say that in a self-deprecating way, I am just realistic), I needed a larger sampling than the obviously beautiful gals might. But, obviously beautiful people have their own set of issues, too.... finding someone who is genuinely into them. So, they might get more right swipes (or whatever it is) but that doesn't gaurantee actual matches. |
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Post by lwoetin on Feb 9, 2018 2:31:05 GMT -5
"Am I just that ugly??? Or was I attracting a different type of man? I would like to think the latter, please!! Though, I know for some I was just too ugly. I was flat out rejected based on looks alone..." My looks has done irreparable damage, unfortunately. There were 50000 members in EP ILIASM. One member said she goes to a coffee shop and stare at men there. I decided to PM her and ask which coffee shop in Sydney (1,000,000 mi away) she goes to so I can go there. She sent me her photo, in jest, so I can find her. She looked amazing. And I don't. I hesitated to scare her with my pic, but had no choice. Afterwards...she stopped posting. Nothing. Hopefully she's fine. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 9, 2018 7:51:42 GMT -5
"Am I just that ugly??? Or was I attracting a different type of man? I would like to think the latter, please!! Though, I know for some I was just too ugly. I was flat out rejected based on looks alone..." My looks has done irreparable damage, unfortunately. There were 50000 members in EP ILIASM. One member said she goes to a coffee shop and stare at men there. I decided to PM her and ask which coffee shop in Sydney (1,000,000 mi away) she goes to so I can go there. She sent me her photo, in jest, so I can find her. She looked amazing. And I don't. I hesitated to scare her with my pic, but had no choice. Afterwards...she stopped posting. Nothing. Hopefully she's fine. You were not "rejected" by 50,000 women. You were maybe rejected by ONE. 1. ONE! ONE presents horrible odds unless you are obviously good-looking by today's shallow standards like, oh...Blake Shelton (according to some magazine). And even then...eh...that goofy hair....next!!! (I wouldn't swipe for that reason, just saying most do). You are living and breathing...not irreparable damage. Not to diminish feelings, but it is true, right? I said "maybe" you were rejected by her because you don't know. Maybe her grandma died, maybe her picture was a fake, maybe.... who knows? A million things! But, even if you were flat out rejected by her because she didn't like your looks (yes, that sucks and yes it happens to everyone), she is just one woman. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 9, 2018 10:20:11 GMT -5
I don't want to say that some of us have to "play the odds" more because that is not always true. Sometimes people instantly find someone after divorce - lots of examples here on EP. Sometimes you go on one date and bam... that's it... the one! Those cases to me are like weight loss programs... "Results not typical. Your actual results may vary."
Whether it happens like that for you or not, it's so important to be okay with yourself and not need another person to feel good about yourself and life. And to know that "being single" is NOT some form of "punishment" NOR is it a sign that there is something wrong with you that needs to be fixed "before" you can find "the one." You just haven't met "the one" yet. That's it, that's all, the only reason. It's not some inherent flaw about yourself that you have to fix before it can happen.
I think a lot of it IS luck. But we try to make sense of it and throw fate, etc. into the mix. I may slip sometimes myself with that and say, "well, I was ready"..... or was I just lucky? I WAS ready, but what if I met him a few months earlier? Would I have screwed it up because I was still a mess then? No idea. Life just is what it is and goes how it goes. I did "up my odds" though and went on a lot of dates, met a lot of men and got "out" in the world - meetup, dating sites, nature clubs, etc.
Rejection is a passionate topic for me. I could go on and on but then sometimes I end up in circles.
I like MM's take on it, though... "We are attracted to what we value." I mostly value inner stuff, but even with that, there are preferences I have when it comes to appearances. My husband's picture didn't make my heart stop the first time I saw it, but it also didn't "repel" me. I was neutral. It was in getting to know him that he became more attractive to me. Now he is a sexy beast in my eyes. But if he had been a foot shorter, had a bushy beard and super long snarly hair, would I have passed him up?? I would love to say no, but I don't know.... so what does that say about me? I have preferences, too. We all do. So Truck Guy passing me up because I was too fat for him sucked for me, because no woman likes to be told she is fat, but it was just him having preferences and we all have them. I still say he didn't have to be so harsh about it, but then again, because of that moment I am okay with my weight as it is, so I actually have to thank him.
We can't get mad if we do not meet other people's preferences.
And we shouldn't feel unworthy if we don't meet other people's preferences.
UNLESS it is something we WANT to change and CAN change. I COULD change my weight, but this is as good as it gets. I explored making changes and the changes I would have to make would so drastically change my lifestyle, I won't do it - don't want to. So him saying he doesn't like me because I am too fat is the same as him saying he doesn't like me because of my nose. Eh... not much I can do about that!!! (don't send me weight loss advise, not interested!!)
Naked Dating book has a chapter dedicated to this line of thinking - and suggests that you be okay wearing nothing but your thong. VERY FEW people look awesome in a thong. The rest of us look... let's be honest... a little absurd. Can you look at yourself as you are, see yourself as others see you and be okay with yourself? Flaws, quirks and all? Can you say, "eh... this is as good as it gets!" Take it or leave it! If you truly don't like something about yourself, change it. If you don't want to change it, embrace it. Those are the choices. Don't make yourself feel like crap because someone doesn't like your nose. Or hair. Or weight. Or laugh. Or... whatever.
Those who look awesome in thongs may have an "easier" time in the dating game if we are talking outward appearance only, but even that won't guarantee love and I dare say, may make it harder to find love? They simply have more choices, which means having to wade through more choices (not easy). You still have to find that "click." That's hard to find. I wonder how many are together who never had it? My ex and I didn't have it. I didn't know what I was missing until I found it.
Anyway back to my point - you are enough for someone, not everyone. Rejection stings, but it goes away fast if you learn to embrace yourself as you are. It's actually OKAY to be fat, average, wrinkly, bald, wear glasses, have gray hair, etc. Not everyone will like you as is, but someone will and hopefully, first and foremost, YOU do!!
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 9, 2018 12:22:30 GMT -5
I like your words, thoughts, and ambition awakeforthedance@! I went back last night and read through my entire thread iliasm.org/thread/3509/skinny-therapyI have a better question, or a better way of putting what I am going through. I go to church (or any event) I easily see 10 woman who I find attractive, who I would easily desire. Here's a better one: I sit outside my teens H.S. waiting to pick them up and I see mom after mom come walking out with their teenage son or daughter. odds are pretty good that we are close in age and backgrounds. I have yet to EVER have any feedback from those 10 woman IF they would have a physical attraction for me. It just never gets spoken or shown. That is going to be something I need a much better understanding of, as I press forward and learn to love myself and be 100% confident in my body and me as a person. I know my preferences, but I have NO IDEA what my preferences think of me. ( I do get told occasionally "You are like a brother to me, your a great friend, you help me so much) |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 9, 2018 12:46:34 GMT -5
I like your words, thoughts, and ambition awakeforthedance@! I went back last night and read through my entire thread iliasm.org/thread/3509/skinny-therapyI have a better question, or a better way of putting what I am going through. I go to church (or any event) I easily see 10 woman who I find attractive, who I would easily desire. Here's a better one: I sit outside my teens H.S. waiting to pick them up and I see mom after mom come walking out with their teenage son or daughter. odds are pretty good that we are close in age and backgrounds. I have yet to EVER have any feedback from those 10 woman IF they would have a physical attraction for me. It just never gets spoken or shown. That is going to be something I need a much better understanding of, as I press forward and learn to love myself and be 100% confident in my body and me as a person. I know my preferences, but I have NO IDEA what my preferences think of me. ( I do get told occasionally "You are like a brother to me, your a great friend, you help me so much) Oh, that was a good link thanks for bringing it back to our knowledge. Yes, we talk about this stuff a lot here and now I am bringing it up again. It fascinates me. lol Are you making it clear you desire them? Most women won't make it obvious they desire you if they did in the type of situations you described above. Plus, what if all ten of those women are married? Not a good sampling for you to base anything on. You will learn if women you are attracted to desire you or not after you start pursuing them. Some of them won't prefer you, some of them may. But don't let one rejection stop you if it happens. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 9, 2018 13:19:22 GMT -5
I like your words, thoughts, and ambition awakeforthedance@! I went back last night and read through my entire thread iliasm.org/thread/3509/skinny-therapyI have a better question, or a better way of putting what I am going through. I go to church (or any event) I easily see 10 woman who I find attractive, who I would easily desire. Here's a better one: I sit outside my teens H.S. waiting to pick them up and I see mom after mom come walking out with their teenage son or daughter. odds are pretty good that we are close in age and backgrounds. I have yet to EVER have any feedback from those 10 woman IF they would have a physical attraction for me. It just never gets spoken or shown. That is going to be something I need a much better understanding of, as I press forward and learn to love myself and be 100% confident in my body and me as a person. I know my preferences, but I have NO IDEA what my preferences think of me. ( I do get told occasionally "You are like a brother to me, your a great friend, you help me so much) Oh, that was a good link thanks for bringing it back to our knowledge. Yes, we talk about this stuff a lot here and now I am bringing it up again. It fascinates me. lol Are you making it clear you desire them? Most women won't make it obvious they desire you if they did in the type of situations you described above. Plus, what if all ten of those women are married? Not a good sampling for you to base anything on. You will learn if women you are attracted to desire you or not after you start pursuing them. Some of them won't prefer you, some of them may. But don't let one rejection stop you if it happens. Are you making it clear you desire them? OF COURSE NOT!! Now give me a moment. Hmmm, Hmmm ( as I sit here sipping from my mug labeled REJECT PASSIVITY! LOL!) It's kind of like when Charlie Brown goes ballistic when he finally gets spoken to by the little red haired girl!! I think I am speaking for more than myself here when I say, " making it clear that you desire a woman who you see during your everyday activities as a married father does not and can not happen". So... one answer to that is the divorce. Then I am free, no more FOG. Next is where I read on here about swiping right swiping left, and all the dangers to be aware off. Kind of reminds me of how things used to be back in the stone age when I was in H.S. when another girl would tell you, "greatcoastal, did you know that Mary wants you to ask her to the prom?" And what it's like now. How much background you have to have before confronting someone of the opposite sex with the question, "do you desire me sexually?" I most likely will continue to have posts on here as I throw myself into the on-line world of dating, ready for rejection, and continuing to build my true self. Maybe, by then I will have 10 answers to "do you desire me?" and can then have a better understanding of where I stand. Does anyone agree that such a thing is useful and needed, after a divorce? It's confusing when finding the balance, " to hell to what others think, what do you think?" and "an affirmative from someone of the opposite sex who you desire goes a long, long way". |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 9, 2018 13:39:35 GMT -5
greatcoastal - I have to admit, finding a FWB (or two...) was one of the ways I experienced self esteem boosts and I know I shouldn't be "proud" of that, but I am also not ashamed, if that makes sense. I had TEN YEARS of sexlessness, depression, etc. I joined a sex dating site. It helped learning how to socialize with men and frankly, I really liked the sex and I was getting in touch with my sexuality and liked exploring that area of life. I am NOT recommending that route, just saying - it helped me. I also did other things like go on backpacking excursions alone, try new hobbies, make new friends and try "real dates." I did a kickboxing class, etc. If friends/family ask, I just did the latter, they have no clue about the other side activities that helped me. lol But, anyway --- yes, finding and being with someone who desires you sexually helps in the rebuilding of self-esteem even if it doesn't lead to a Long Term Relationship. Especially for us coming out of a SM. You will experience that, I am sure, at some point, if you want to.
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Though, I know for some I was just too ugly. 
