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Post by WindSister on Feb 7, 2018 11:06:14 GMT -5
In my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you. If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed. That must be a beautiful people problem.  lol That was not my experience at all. Again, not saying one "should" do this or that... just shared my own thoughts in the thread. Good luck to you!  |
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 7, 2018 11:16:16 GMT -5
Agreed....we are all coming from different experiences.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 7, 2018 11:38:41 GMT -5
“in my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you.
If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed.”
That was true when I was dating in my 20s and younger. Wasn’t true in my 60s. I think more mature men respond more to a woman’s signals. They don’t just assume that a date means getting to handle the woman.
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Post by obobfla on Feb 7, 2018 11:39:06 GMT -5
Now, I believe baza (?) and I had a little back-and-forth regarding whether it was honest for me to post not great pics of myself, so that men would be pleasantly delighted instead of disappointed when we meet in person. The pics I posted were/are real, enough to make you say okay to meet, but I know they are not great pics. I'll let Bob weigh in if he wants to regarding whether it was "honest" or not. Did you feel lied to, Bob? Honest question and you know I can take the real answer. The camera was as honest as it could be. Photographs tend to make you look heavier than you are. I don’t feel lied to. I just prefer the 3D version of you over the 2D version. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 7, 2018 12:12:44 GMT -5
“in my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you. If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed.” That was true when I was dating in my 20s and younger. Wasn’t true in my 60s. I think more mature men respond more to a woman’s signals. They don’t just assume that a date means getting to handle the woman. I have never ever had this experience. I will go back to my ugly corner now... the rest of you carry on as this conversation is slightly annoying me now. lol (just joking a bit, but tuning out just the same) I say, be you. Be genuine. Don't make anyone jump through hoops or read minds. Have fun. It either works out as a relationship or it doesn't. |
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Post by Dan on Feb 7, 2018 12:29:14 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to weigh in on this... ... if a girl backs off the language of a "date", it means she isn't into you romantically or isn't sure she is into you romantically yet. I liked the whole post. I totally see the utility in the female's mind to using the phrase to say "let me signal where he stands". It is both somewhat fair to him, and a protection to her (that he won't get too forward to quickly.) But the fact that one's interest level may shift even over the course of the "hangout"/"coffee"/"date" is kind of my point. Attempting to rely on a single word (this is "a date/not a date") to clearly establish you have pre-negotiated everything to constrain an interaction during which the rules may change... is just a bit futile! THAT is the core nugget of my rant. Look, the converse case makes my case even clearer: woman say to man "when are you picking me up for our date?" and then they have their date. EVEN THAT is not a green light to ANY sort of automatically assumed sexual intimacy! I think communication is key. And if a woman says a priori "this is not a date", I will not argue with her. I will use that as important information. However, I will also use all the during-the-date-cues that surfergirl mentions to constantly reassess which way the date is going. Double standard. I agree. Yeah. I noticed that. You are forgiven. By the way, this could be taken as "Netflix and chill" which is code for booty call. LOL. Shoot: are you giving me another word that is unclear?!?! Which is kind of add to my point: context matters, personality matters, prior interactions matter... And communication is key. |
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Post by Dan on Feb 7, 2018 12:48:55 GMT -5
But here's the thing, if I AM into you, I will try switch that 'hanging out' into a date, PRONTO. I'm not going to announce, "OK, now it's a date!" My body language will change and you will notice you've been let out of the friend zone. It's not a game or tricky. When my hand goes up your leg, it's a pretty good green light. Ah... but here's where it is EXCEEDING tricky... for men. You see: you ( surfergirl ) are willing to run your hand up the leg, and actively signal: "we've just changed the rules of the game tonight". But many women are not. Many (most?) are conditioned to think "good girls don't do that". Or "what will he think of me if I initiate?" Or "what if he pulls away?" Or "damn, I should have shaved my legs." Or "gah! if I bring him home to my place, he'll think I'm a slob; it's a wreck!" Or "gah!!! if I go home to his place I might be axe-murdered tonight!!!" So men are -- in many cases -- left to piece together inconsistent or very dim signals. And: there is little consistency among women, and every woman is into/not into each of us differently... so we are left re-figuring it out again and again and again. Sometimes, a guy needs to find out if the "rules have changed" ("non-date rules" to "date rules") mid-date... by breaking them, at least a little. I'm not justifying "getting all handsy". But it can be almost UNgentlemanly to just hard-stop at platonic until she tells you outright what she'd be open to... if in fact she is hoping for a little more in the moment. I can recall of a few of my experiences: one where I did let my hand brush across her shoulders, or turned a friendly goodnight peck on the lips in to a smoldering kiss. So I guess I broke the rules of "the not-yet-a-date". And in those BOTH cases I could palpably feel the "date-guard wall" melt into a puddle of "OMG that feels so good and I'm so glad you did that". (Both of these events lead to some great relationships.) |
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Post by Dan on Feb 7, 2018 12:56:06 GMT -5
In my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you. If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed. Maybe you've been dating the wrong men. Maybe that sort of man is common in the places you've been looking for them. Wait: haven't you been in a 21-year celibate marriage, and you are only now starting to outsource? Maybe you need more data points... |
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Post by obobfla on Feb 7, 2018 12:59:10 GMT -5
Let me give the male version here. surfergirl and I agreed before meeting that this was not a romantic date. This detail put me at ease. I didn’t have to worry about impressing her or screwing up my chances. If I had hoped to woo or seduce SG, I probably shouldn’t have gone. Instead, I came expecting to have an honest talk with a fellow ILIASM member about the events in our lives. I could talk about my marriage, past lovers, and my wife’s death. I knew that if I cried, she would understand. I might embarrass her in a crowded bar, but I didn’t need to worry about scaring her away. With my wife’s death, I have experienced a wide range of emotions. Talking to a female friend and getting her perspective helped me a lot in my grieving. The fact that SG is as attractive as she is was a very nice plus. I think a problem is that many of us like to “keep score” on dates. Will we have a second date? Did I get to first base/second base/third base/home with her? Considering that I am in no shape to have a serious relationship right now, it doesn’t do me any good to rate a date like that. But for those keeping score at home, I got a nice hug from SG and nothing more. As to a second date/not date - if it happens, I would like some of you to join us and make it a ILIASM party. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 7, 2018 14:33:59 GMT -5
I believe you are way, way, way over thinking this. If you are out in public with a woman and you are going through this sort of compiling and analysis of her actions, words, non-actions, body language, eye contact, conversation topics, etc., all the while trying to gauge and measure your own responses I expect what you will experience is her looking about for a TV so she can catch a Tide commercial. Relax for Pete's sake and just let the conversation and your interaction flow. Then go with the flow.
Plan the meet and have a # of things you want to talk about. Hopefully you will have a couple of interesting(funny) experiences you can work into the conversation. Ask her questions. Women love to talk about themselves, their interests and what's going on in their lives. Success has been described as when preparation meets opportunity. So be prepared.
Trust me if you are anything other than brain dead you will know if she is enjoying the evening and what the potential is going forward for both of you.
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 7, 2018 14:36:03 GMT -5
In my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you. If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed. Sounds like you have been looking in all the wrong places. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 16:00:20 GMT -5
In my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you. If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed. THIS. That is why, from my teen years until the present, I’m leery of spending too much one-on-one time with guys. Unless I’m fairly sure I wouldn’t mind making out with him, I feel cautious. When I was in my teens and 20s, going on a date usually meant getting mauled. That’s just the way it was, most of the time. That’s a big reason why I hesitate to date. |
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 7, 2018 16:05:54 GMT -5
Hi all. When I typed my answer, the gist was, "This is what I am thinking when I use that line." Other people are welcome to not ever use that line, have different meanings when they use that line, philosophize about not playing games, not fish in the same pool, etc. My experience is a dozen "dates" recently and pre-marriage, so not much. It's all good, my friends. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 16:06:00 GMT -5
Dan said: “I'm worried my blank, slightly-miffed stare will not be very enticing... nor will I be putting my best gentlemanly foot forward when I exasperatedly reply: ‘I consider it a date, but, look, you don't have to shave your privates or anything.’” Evil SmartKat would respond well to that! Even Good SmartKat has trouble resisting a smartass man who can make her laugh....
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Post by baza on Feb 7, 2018 16:56:07 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to weigh in on this since I use this, "It's not a date," line all the time. This is what is going on inside of my head when I say this. Here is the decoder ring from the cereal box: I'm not sure I'm into you (age, not knowing enough to have a good read yet, could be lots of factors). But here's the thing, if I AM into you, I will try switch that 'hanging out' into a date, PRONTO. I'm not going to announce, "OK, now it's a date!" My body language will change and you will notice you've been let out of the friend zone. It's not a game or tricky. When my hand goes up your leg, it's a pretty good green light. But what I'm also saying to the guy is, "Please don't put your hand up my leg. It's not a date." I don't want them to have expectations and then be disappointed if it's just not clicking. Double standard. I agree. Now, with my friend Bob, here-- we both already knew it was not a date, but it helps to say so when you are dealing with the opposite gender. We are on a therapeutic site, and really, we kept in line with what this site is all about: offering support and sympathy from others in the same predicament. Bob is a wonderful gentlemen. We had a good time, and that was that. And he has awesome taste in music, by the way. Now, about the cadet/midshipman mistake, he is joking. I yanked his chain for making such an egregious mistake (never confuse navy with army), but he is too smart to realize that that would end his chances (were he trying). Just saying this to clarify that surfergirl is a nice ball buster. So to summarize, if a girl backs off the language of a "date", it means she isn't into you romantically or isn't sure she is into you romantically yet. Now, I believe baza (?) and I had a little back-and-forth regarding whether it was honest for me to post not great pics of myself, so that men would be pleasantly delighted instead of disappointed when we meet in person. The pics I posted were/are real, enough to make you say okay to meet, but I know they are not great pics. I'll let Bob weigh in if he wants to regarding whether it was "honest" or not. Did you feel lied to, Bob? Honest question and you know I can take the real answer. By the way, this could be taken as "Netflix and chill" which is code for booty call. Just to clarify. It was not me who was engaging in any debate about you posting pix surfergirl . |
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lol 
