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Post by Dan on Feb 6, 2018 21:33:34 GMT -5
The "is it a date?" question is driving me bonkers... and I'm not even in the dating pool yet. On a different thread, @elle mentioned: As an aside, once I get the courage to divorce, I don’t actually plan on “dating.” My plan is to tell interested (and interesting) gentlemen that we can be friends. Should that turn into anything (at a much later date) the foundation will be there. I actually agree with this sentiment. I would like to be friends first. I would like to experience some face-to-face time with a woman in the setting of a movie or a play or dinner or a Meetup activity or a walk or any other pastime... and you know: talk. Tell stories about where we grew up, about what stupid thing a coworker did yesterday, something great one of our kids did recently, what cool podcasts we are listening to, or our favorite kitchen mishap story. Mostly: see if we can make each other smile... think... sigh... maybe blush... and -- very importantly -- laugh. The only difference I can see between @elle 's view and mine is: I'm 100% comfortable calling THAT "a date"! Calling an outing "a date" seems to have taken on some weird taboo. It seems you can't call it a date unless both parties are unattached, and have already established they are probably open to a romantic relationship with each other. But how do you get to that point unless you, you know, go on a date or two? Gah! I'd like to blame our overly legal-minded culture (though I know this is specious). You can't install an app on your phone without agreeing to eight pages of boilerplate legalese. What: do we need an unmarried man and woman to sign a Memorandum of Understanding about exactly how much one's feelings can grow or be expressed to the other before they even know if they have the same taste in movies??? Grumble. I guess I'm comfortable with what I perceive as "the old system": guy asks girl out. (Or: flip the gender here and for the rest of this scenario.) She sizes him up and determines she is either "kinda interested" or "well, he looks harmless". So they go out. Either party is allowed to call it a date. But they are not "dating" yet. Doesn't matter who pays for dinner or if they go dutch. There is no quid pro quo; no responsibility of either party to take things any further than a pleasant "thank you" at the end of the evening. There is no deceit in this arrangement. At worse: one or both have a bad time, and future offers to spend time together are either not tendered or accepted. I'm very comfortable with this arrangement. It allows -- at best -- a seed of a possibility of a new friendship (and maybe even romance) to develop. And if that seed doesn't take hold... well, hopefully the dinner or movie was to their liking. There is something comforting in the indeterminate nature of this encounter. There is something actually great about the mystery. About the longing to connect, even before it is clear if the connection will bloom in to a romance. Am I just old fashioned? Out of step with the realities of today? Or maybe: this is NEVER the way it EVER was... and I'm just making up the whole thing! I fully admit I am tilting at windmills here. And if you catch the cultural reference "tilting at windmills", then you are probably old enough to date me, and we just might have a nice evening. Even if we go dutch and there is no expectation of a kiss goodnight! |
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Post by bballgirl on Feb 6, 2018 21:41:17 GMT -5
That's a date in my book. I guess I'm old fashion too and love the windmill reference.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 22:19:15 GMT -5
I get it. I wasn’t trying to start a semantic discussion of the word date, but it appears that’s what I did! I agree, @dan, what you describe is a date. All I meant was that I really don’t want to give would be suitors too much hope too early in the game. I also don’t want the cart coming before the horse, hence the idea that I won’t “date.”
Of course, in my case, it’s really all a lot of hypothetical mumbo jumbo since I’m still married!
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 6, 2018 22:23:59 GMT -5
"As an aside, once I get the courage to divorce, I don’t actually plan on “dating.” My plan is to tell interested (and interesting) gentlemen that we can be friends. Should that turn into anything (at a much later date) the foundation will be there."
That's how I view a date. It's an opportunity to get to know someone . It might lead to nothing or it might lead to a friendship or a romance. I don't believe in jumping into bed or into a make-out session with someone I don't really know. I like to spend time talking and getting to know someone in person first. Values are very important to me for friends as well as for lovers. It takes time to find out a person's values.
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Post by baza on Feb 6, 2018 22:49:10 GMT -5
In Ye Olden Days - and in my jurisdiction - seeking a root was really conducted under three distinct headings.
#1 - Opportunistic
This is where you attend the pub, party, dance, club as an unattached individual and with your witty repartee and urbane sophistication, try and cut a straggler out of the herd and get her in the sack - or back seat of your car - and push things along until she says "no".
This method is very hit and miss, mainly miss, often failing to get off the ground at even the "witty repartee" stage. Apparently, blurting out "Jeez you got nice tits" is not always regarded as witty repartee. Who knew ?
#2 - Calculated
Perhaps in the course of #1 above, you did actually get somewhere with your witty repartee (although this is awfully unlikely) and you got feel of her tits and her phone number. You call her as you figure she may yet "come across" (Australian vernacular for "put out" or "give you a root") if you put a bit of effort in to it.
Presupposing that she doesn't immediately hang up in your ear, you might arrange to go out as a pair to somewhere nice, like a kangaroo culling expedition or something romantic like that. During which you repeat the attempts to get her in the sack - or back seat again. If you advance from feeling her tits to say getting your hand in her panties, then you might be on a winner and a bit more romancing might get you over the line 'next time'.
#3 - Here's where you can start calling it a "Date"
You both know the score and it is really just a matter of whether she fancies you enough (or is drunk enough) to "come across". This time you go somewhere nice, like the front bar of the Terminus Hotel to ply her with alcohol and shoot a bit of pool. You even wear a shirt with a collar to show, conclusively, what a gentleman you are. Again, the sack or the back seat strategy is deployed. It works or it does not.
If it doesn't (and it probably won't) repeat #3 a max of one more time and if that doesn't result in her "coming across", forget it.
Go back to whacking yourself off and complaining that there's no decent chicks around.
Finally, a gag.
Q - "Why do Australian men come so quickly ?
A - So they can rush back down the pub and tell their mates that they just had a root.
PS - I think I have mentioned before that I was not a terribly successful "dater". God knows why.
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Post by Dan on Feb 6, 2018 23:00:16 GMT -5
I get it. I wasn’t trying to start a semantic discussion of the word date, but it appears that’s what I did! I agree, @dan, what you describe is a date. All I meant was that I really don’t want to give would be suitors too much hope too early in the game. I also don’t want the cart coming before the horse, hence the idea that I won’t “date.” I'm 100% with you. I wasn't trying to pick a semantic fight with you, either!  It is my perception that "is this a date/what counts as a date?" is a bit of a hangup in society at large. And -- curiously -- equally so for the 20-somethings through the 50-somethings I know. I think I'm bracing myself for my own reaction when I ask a female acquaintance if she wants to meet next Saturday for a walk on the boardwalk then get a bite to eat, and she asks "is it a date?" I'm worried my blank, slightly-miffed stare will not be very enticing... nor will I be putting my best gentlemanly foot forward when I exasperatedly reply: "I consider it a date, but, look, you don't have to shave your privates or anything." Of course, in my case, it’s really all a lot of hypothetical mumbo jumbo since I’m still married! As I allude in the first line of my OP: this is a pretty dumb thing to get my knickers twisted about, since there is no imminent danger of Dan being in the dating pool. Say: I guess that means we are both not in the same pool together. Such things we have in common! Wanna go on a date? |
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Post by Dan on Feb 6, 2018 23:05:35 GMT -5
#1 - Opportunistic .. get her in the sack - or back seat of your car... #2 - Calculated ... get her in the sack - or back seat again. ... #3 - Here's where you can start calling it a "Date" Again, the sack or the back seat strategy is deployed Holy smokes: I thought I had a problem with the term "date"... If it were not for "sacks" and "back seats", where would you Australians fuck? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 23:28:50 GMT -5
Wanna go on a date? I don’t date, but I’m always looking for new friends. Let’s grab coffee this weekend! (Thanks for letting me practice that!) |
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Post by greatcoastal on Feb 7, 2018 6:24:09 GMT -5
I read an article yesterday "5 different types of affairs". Basically having an "affair" without sex.Things like a mental affair, family, affair, friendship affair, online affair, etc...
The part about a friendship affair got to me. Being a "stay at home Dad, and a Homeschooler, who volunteered and worked with the church nursery" who do you think my friends where? Other married woman!! and single moms.
my W being an Electrical Engineer" works primarily with "other men". Who do you think her friends are? Mostly other men from work.
All that was very well understood and accepted through out our marriage.
How does this tie into dating? Well there where many times when I would get asked to meet with a "female friend" and help them move, assist in repair work, or transport their kids. we would eat together, or they would be invited over to the house later. And we would get to know each other more and more. That's a friendship. The trust was always there, and it was understood as a friendship only.
Others would call that dating? Or an affair? Even all the posting I've done on here "receiving comfort and support, and offering it to others" is that dating, or an on line affair?
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Post by obobfla on Feb 7, 2018 6:30:45 GMT -5
Funny, but I sort of had this discussion IRL with another ILIASM member. We agreed to meet and talk, but we both were reluctant to call it a “date.” A little background: since becoming widowed, I discarded conventional wisdom about waiting to date. I have been on three actual dates with women I contacted on dating sites. All three dates turned out the same - I meet her for drinks and coffee. All three were nice, intelligent women. Things go well until they ask about my late wife. I start talking, finding myself fighting back the tears. It becomes apparent that I am not ready for a relationship, so no second date. So, surfergirl was in the area. She and I had been messaging each other about my wife and her marriage and affair troubles, so we decided to meet for a “mutual commiseration.” It was not going to be any sort of romantic rendezvous. We were going to keep each other in the friend zone, so it was not going to be a “date.” Whatever you call it, it was two friends meeting. Surfergirl looks better IRL than she does in the pictures she posted here, so I came close to regretting the “friend zone” discussion. But the reality is that the friend zone was where we belonged. We’re not each other’s match, and that’s okay. I can’t speak for Surfergirl, but I’m still a blubbering widower. Right now, I need a good friend more than I need any sort of romantic entanglement. And a good friend is precisely what I got. I talked about my wife and got teary-eyed. She understood. We talked marriages, affairs, past relationships, and children. Her eldest son in the Naval Academy, and I made the mistake of calling him a “cadet.” He is a midshipman. Cadets go to other military academies. If this actually was a romantic date, I would have blown it right there. Whatever it was, I enjoyed my time with her. I was relaxed from the beginning. Surfergirl was kind enough to talk to me about my wife’s death, her mental illness, and my affairs. Becoming a widower has left me raw, and she helped me in my healing process. You can call it a date. I call it therapy. |
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 7, 2018 7:02:32 GMT -5
“How does this tie into dating? Well there where many times when I would get asked to meet with a "female friend" and help them move,assist in repair work, or transport there kids.e would eat together, or they would be invited over to the house later. And we would get to know each other more and more. That's a friendship. The trust was always there, and it was understood as a friendship only.”
I call those things hanging out with friends. It’s the same type of friendship I have with my woman friends.
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Post by Dan on Feb 7, 2018 9:14:37 GMT -5
And we would get to know each other more and more. That's a friendship. The trust was always there, and it was understood as a friendship only. Others would call that dating?... Funny, but I sort of had this discussion IRL with another ILIASM member. We agreed to meet and talk, but we both were reluctant to call it a “date.” I call those things hanging out with friends. It’s the same type of friendship I have with my woman friends. To be clear, I'm not arguing "anytime a man and a woman share coffee and some conversation, in The World According to Dan, thou shalt call that a date." So I'm 100% fine with the approach/terminlogy of the three posts, above. I think I'm saying: there is too much of a hangup on "is it a date?". And: "it is OK if one of the parties thinks its a date, and the other doesn't". And: "romantic relationships sometimes start at 'friends hanging out'... so the 'date' line is blurry." And: "I haven't heard a definition of 'date' that we all agree on.... If you want want to answer 'is this a date', please define your term'." I've literally heard women worry: "Oh no: did he think this will be/is now/was a date?" I honestly don't understand the worry. I find the need to specify beforehand: "let's agree if this is a date or not" weirdly a barrier to progression of the friendship. Like I said: I know I'm getting ranty on this. But -- hey -- better that I work it out with you all (even at the risk of making you tweaked at me) than with whatever women in the future I'm going to ask if they want to hangout with me.  |
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 7, 2018 10:00:38 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to weigh in on this since I use this, "It's not a date," line all the time. This is what is going on inside of my head when I say this. Here is the decoder ring from the cereal box: I'm not sure I'm into you (age, not knowing enough to have a good read yet, could be lots of factors). But here's the thing, if I AM into you, I will try switch that 'hanging out' into a date, PRONTO. I'm not going to announce, "OK, now it's a date!" My body language will change and you will notice you've been let out of the friend zone. It's not a game or tricky. When my hand goes up your leg, it's a pretty good green light. But what I'm also saying to the guy is, "Please don't put your hand up my leg. It's not a date." I don't want them to have expectations and then be disappointed if it's just not clicking. Double standard. I agree. Now, with my friend Bob, here-- we both already knew it was not a date, but it helps to say so when you are dealing with the opposite gender. We are on a therapeutic site, and really, we kept in line with what this site is all about: offering support and sympathy from others in the same predicament. Bob is a wonderful gentlemen. We had a good time, and that was that. And he has awesome taste in music, by the way. Now, about the cadet/midshipman mistake, he is joking. I yanked his chain for making such an egregious mistake (never confuse navy with army), but he is too smart to realize that that would end his chances (were he trying). Just saying this to clarify that surfergirl is a nice ball buster. So to summarize, if a girl backs off the language of a "date", it means she isn't into you romantically or isn't sure she is into you romantically yet. Now, I believe baza (?) and I had a little back-and-forth regarding whether it was honest for me to post not great pics of myself, so that men would be pleasantly delighted instead of disappointed when we meet in person. The pics I posted were/are real, enough to make you say okay to meet, but I know they are not great pics. I'll let Bob weigh in if he wants to regarding whether it was "honest" or not. Did you feel lied to, Bob? Honest question and you know I can take the real answer. By the way, this could be taken as "Netflix and chill" which is code for booty call. |
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Post by WindSister on Feb 7, 2018 10:26:27 GMT -5
“What man can pretend to know the riddle of a woman's mind?” ― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Well, I got a little exhausted reading this thread. lol To be honest.
I do think "too much thinking" goes into stuff now-a-days. The games. The terminology. The whole dating dance is something else. I was in it for a couple years and all I can say again and again is when it clicks, it just freaking CLICKS. Simplistic, I know.
Personally, and I don't mean to pick on anyone, but I think it's a very guarded response to announce, "it's not a date." If that's honest for you, then yes, use it. And I get why one would be guarded after getting out of a long marriage and is working on getting back on her feet.
In the online dating world you will see that the first time you meet is considered a "meet and greet." It's really NOT "a date." You are meeting for the first time face-to-face. After that, if you agree to meet again, yes, I don't see why that wouldn't be a date. Doesn't guarantee it leads to sex, love or anything good, but it's a date. So, I do think it's a semantics thing that could get confusing.
I don't know... when it clicks it clicks. That's all I really got. lol
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Post by surfergirl on Feb 7, 2018 10:55:28 GMT -5
In my experience, when you haven't distanced yourself a little bit with verbal or social cues, men just GRAB you.
If a guy asks me on a date, and I say, "Yes," there is pretty much a 99% guarantee to be pawed.
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I actually agree with this sentiment. I would like to be friends first. I would like to experience some face-to-face time with a woman in the setting of a movie or a play or dinner or a Meetup activity or a walk or any other pastime... and you know: talk. Tell stories about where we grew up, about what stupid thing a coworker did yesterday, something great one of our kids did recently, what cool podcasts we are listening to, or our favorite kitchen mishap story.
