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Post by Dan on Jan 5, 2018 14:44:52 GMT -5
In one of our few discussions about divorce, my wife (not interested in a divorce at all), declared "think of what you'd be throwing away."
I guess I see what she is trying to say, but I guess I don't see it that way. I mean, I'll still take the good memories of our relationship, times together, and successes in raising a family. I'm not "throwing away" any of that.
OK: assuming I start seeking another LTR, I'll have to "start over" with building up communication skills, shared positive experiences, and learning (my new partner's) likes and dislikes, quirks and cutenesses. But frankly: that sounds great. I think I'd LIKE to do that.
Anyway: I didn't bother to dispute her point.
In discussing a possible split, has your spouse dropped that on the table to dissuade you from thinking about divorce? What is your thinking, and/or what was your reply?
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 5, 2018 15:22:33 GMT -5
I think your wife has a valid point. You two (like me and my W) have very different views on this. This is what helped me. To wright out what I would be loosing and what I would be gaining. Not just me but for everyone in the family. www.iliasm.org/thread/3633/working-grief-saying-goodbye
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 5, 2018 15:34:09 GMT -5
My therapist asked me (before I had decided that I wanted to divorce) to talk about what I might miss, about him, about us. In all honesty I came up with losing the property (20 years of perennial gardens plus trees) and our shared humor. We had a thing, anymore, where we used punchlines & laughed .... forget the setup, the rest of the joke - something on TV or IRL, one would shoot out a punchline - and we both “got” the inside joke. That isn’t much. After 17 years married. What I “threw away” was: derision, avoidance, rejection, him mocking me, him looking down his nose at me. Lack of privacy to masturbate, too. I “couldn’t” even take care of my own needs in the marital bed unless he was safely ensconced in front of the boob tube in the front room. I threw away the need to ask him before spending money on myself. I threw out having to listen to him talk bad about my siblings and dread visiting my parents. I did “throw away” a lot. A lot of toxic crap, in my case. Good riddance. Quite like taking a very satisfying dump or spring cleaning a closet. A couple of valuables may have gotten mixed in (shared humor, common history). But on the whole - for me - worth it.
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Post by h on Jan 5, 2018 16:20:52 GMT -5
Some better questions are: How much have you already thrown away by staying this long? How much more does she expect you to throw away in the years to come?
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Post by shamwow on Jan 5, 2018 16:34:52 GMT -5
In one of our few discussions about divorce, my wife (not interested in a divorce at all), declared "think of what you'd be throwing away." I guess I see what she is trying to say, but I guess I don't see it that way. I mean, I'll still take the good memories of our relationship, times together, and successes in raising a family. I'm not "throwing away" any of that. OK: assuming I start seeking another LTR, I'll have to "start over" with building up communication skills, shared positive experiences, and learning (my new partner's) likes and dislikes, quirks and cutenesses. But frankly: that sounds great. I think I'd LIKE to do that. Anyway: I didn't bother to dispute her point. In discussing a possible split, has your spouse dropped that on the table to dissuade you from thinking about divorce? What is your thinking, and/or what was your reply? I'd ask her to list what EXACTLY you'd be throwing away. I'm not being snarky when I say this, but after I asked my wife for a divorce the subject of what we had in common came up. Neither of us could come up with anything more than the kids, our house, and our families. I mentioned that wasn't a lot in common. She then asked "well why did we get married then?" I started to say "maybe we shouldn't have" but bit my tongue halfway through the sentence. But my point was still made. After that conversation that line of inquiry on her part ended.
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Post by baza on Jan 5, 2018 21:31:51 GMT -5
The notion that you can "throw away" part of your history is a nonsense. It can't be done, not even those bits you sometimes wish you could forget.
Your history is your history. You add to it every day. And what you add to it today accrues on top of what you have already accumulated in your past. And your history (or selected parts there-of) are not disposable.
A refusive spouse playing the "look what you are throwing away" card is just engaging in P.A. bullshit.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 5, 2018 23:22:27 GMT -5
The notion that you can "throw away" part of your history is a nonsense. It can't be done, not even those bits you sometimes wish you could forget. Your history is your history. You add to it every day. And what you add to it today accrues on top of what you have already accumulated in your past. And your history (or selected parts there-of) are not disposable. A refusive spouse playing the "look what you are throwing away" card is just engaging in P.A. bullshit. This makes me think about the "foundation" analogy. You know...the one about building a house on sinking sand? Your W only sees the "beautiful structure" the two of you have built. You see the sinking sand, " lack of a solid foundation" -it's just history-and know it's end is coming real soon. Instead of "throwing it away" you are reedy to dismantle it and restore it on a new solid foundation. (Your arm is about to fall off from extending your hand and inviting her on this "restoration".) Restore yourself alone and/or with someone new. There will always be warfare in your life, strap on your sword and fight, don't die with your quiver full. Fire the last arrows into the unknown. Go on a negativity fast, and go on a positivity feast!! Wright down what you want. How we react when things don't go our way will define who we are. Quitting is not an option. Remember- Rehearse -Resolve.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 5, 2018 23:50:58 GMT -5
1) OK: assuming I start seeking another LTR, I'll have to "start over" with building up communication skills, shared positive experiences, and learning (my new partner's) likes and dislikes, quirks and cutenesses. But frankly: that sounds great. I think I'd LIKE to do that. 2) In discussing a possible split, has your spouse dropped that on the table to dissuade you from thinking about divorce? What is your thinking, and/or what was your reply? 1) That does sound great! Don't let that joy be taken from you anymore. 2)Sadly my W says nothing about the past. I think she fears admitting how well she was treated. (That would be giving up control) Also, sadly, my W has not done one thing to dissuade me from divorce. She even said, "I will not stand in your way". Her only dissuasion is trying to reverse the blame when I use her very own words back at her , revealing the bitter truth of her manipulative control. I can repeat a few, " that's not my concern, whatever, not my problem, I don't know what to tell ya". She hates when I do that. It puts me in control. It sets a boundary. In my opinion a very flimsy one. I feel quite the opposite, It's about my feelings, my needs concerning US. It is your problem and should be your concern. it's called "being married". But I digress. Dan is that what your W is trying to do to you? Is her " throwing away the past" just manipulative control tactics that work on you? Is there a strong concern about your reputation in the family and community pulling at you, slowing you down, and she knows how to use it in her favor? Are you beginning to see the real truth? Just throwing that out there, trying to help you with your resolution!
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Post by csl on Jan 6, 2018 11:32:26 GMT -5
This thread reminded me, of all things, of a scene from one of my favorite movies, 1776. In one scene, one of the main characters who is against declaring independence, makes an appeal calling for loyalty to England, to being proud to be called English citizens. Using his stick to rap on a desk, he stirred Ben Franklin, and this exchange occurred:
It seems to me that Franklin's reply would be applicable here. "Would you throw it away?"
"I'm thankful for the honor of being a husband, but I'd rather have restored to me the actions of a husband and not merely the title."
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Post by hopingforachange on Jan 6, 2018 12:09:34 GMT -5
If that was used on me I know my replay, "oh you mean throwing away the rest of my life begging for duty sex. You might want to rephrase that question."
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Post by warmways on Jan 7, 2018 1:34:13 GMT -5
I feel your pain My husband has said among other statements:(after I try to speak my truth) (which I know I have to give up on because he’ll never truly hear me).
He has said after we argue/discuss/and repeat the same circular stuff
You want to just throw it all away? Don’t write us off just yet. I’m not ready to throw in the towel. What about our wedding vows?
Now I get it that it’s just about buying time and throwing me off course and keeping him in control.
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Post by solodriver on Jan 7, 2018 1:52:18 GMT -5
"Quite like taking a very satisfying dump"
GG, I almost died when I read that. I was eating a bowl of cereal and to avoid spitting it all over the computer I swallowed it and almost choked on it, but I was still LMAO and had to get something to drink real quick.
That was the absolute funniest thing I have read on here in such a long time.
Your sense of humor has just made my year go off to a good start.
Thank you so very much my friend!~
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 7, 2018 9:19:29 GMT -5
I think your wife has a valid point. You two (like me and my W) have very different views on this. This is what helped me. To wright out what I would be loosing and what I would be gaining. Not just me but for everyone in the family. www.iliasm.org/thread/3633/working-grief-saying-goodbye"I think your wife has a valid point." Yes she does,what she fails to see is the decades of rejection, control and disappointment that goes with it. She doesn't want you to bring that out in the open, with anyone else. Certainly not friends or family who will back you, encourage you, and give you sympathy and understanding. That's what a controller does, they don't want you thinking about all the toxic negative trash that they bring to the table. One day I wrote a list for a friend who is having the same problem. I titled it " Things my spouse has not done in a long, long time" NOW THAT'S WHAT I WILL BE THROWING AWAY! I will be doing those things for myself, and the odds are much higher once we have separate households that my teens are going to do their fair share, and my list will be greatly decreased. That list was given to my attorney, it is great proof to show that for decades I am not some worthless piece of crap sitting in a recliner all day posting on here! (lot's of manly outdoor home maintenance chores, a slew of household chores, running 6 kids to all there events, etc....) These things are going to be placed on her when I'm gone. Do I mind "throwing that away" giving her adult responsibilities? Certainly not! My W comes home from work ,plops down, and says I'm done. Until the next morning. Umm.... no your not! She also chose to have 6 children and her Father living with us. The day doesn't end at 5:00pm! Then there's that hemorrhoidal discomfort known as marriage. I see how much she -works- during the day. All the fakebook posting, the phone conversations with relatives, the time taken off to run her father around, the zero over time, the long, fancy lunch meetings. I've been told by others in the same field, "your W does not work a full 8 hr. day. Half her day is spent playing games on the computer and just goofing off".
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 7, 2018 9:42:23 GMT -5
I feel your pain My husband has said among other statements:(after I try to speak my truth) (which I know I have to give up on because he’ll never truly hear me). He has said after we argue/discuss/and repeat the same circular stuff You want to just throw it all away? Don’t write us off just yet. I’m not ready to throw in the towel. What about our wedding vows? Now I get it that it’s just about buying time and throwing me off course and keeping him in control. Pardon me as I answer some of these. You want to just throw it all away? NO. There's nothing left to be thrown away, you did that decades ago with your sexless no intimacy life. Don't write us off just yet? NO. You wrote yourself off decades ago with your sexless no intimacy life. I'm not ready to throw in the towel? NO. You threw in the towel decades ago with your sexless, no intimacy life. What about our wedding vows? NO. You broke those with your sexless, no intimacy life. You know, the CONTROL issues that he doesn't want you to bring out in the public spotlight, the issue that means everything to you! One sentence, one point. One that covers decades of rejection, betrayal, denial ,and sin. Rehearse it and repeat it. (knock him off his pedestal, level the playing field) A CONTROLLER hates that. Saying NO to all his dribble, and defending yourself with the sword of truth, may slow him down, shut up his circular rhetoric. Just be prepared for him to throw new garbage at you. It will still be garbage just re-worded. While you press forward with your exit plan and continue to focus on your own joy.
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Post by elkclan2 on Jan 7, 2018 14:03:06 GMT -5
My ex would accuse me of going to divorce 'too easily' - when things get rough you just want to throw in towel... blah, blah, blah.
I lived with him for 18 years - many of them sexless, many of them technically sexless, at least 8 of them verbally and emotionally abusive. The more I pulled away the more abusive he became, the more I pulled away.
He pulled the vow thing, too - it meant 'nothing to me' - he said he'd never broken any of our vows... but maybe, he admitted, he hadn't done enough to "cherish me".
Yeah, you don't say...
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