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Post by darktippedrose on Dec 18, 2017 2:03:05 GMT -5
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 18, 2017 7:37:48 GMT -5
I think that people get fed up with others who complain and complain and complain about a problem but do nothing to solve it or, if the problem is not solveable by them, to leave the situation.
I remember that when I was in my sm and was complaining to friends but taking no no steps to leave, at least one dear friend told me she was sick of hearing about my sm. When I finally decided to divorce, she was there for me. Now, having read here and on the old EP the stories of some who complain over and over but don’t even take small steps to begin to get out of their situation (even if the steps are baby ones toward s departure years in the future) I understand why my friend told me she was sick of hearing about my sm.
One might have accidentally ended up with a narcissist. Staying with one is a choice.
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Post by darktippedrose on Dec 18, 2017 14:25:40 GMT -5
that is true, but some of those aha moments can take time. Everyone is ready at completely different times.
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Post by wewbwb on Dec 18, 2017 17:35:44 GMT -5
Staying with one is s choice. Ah, were it only so simple.... |
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 19, 2017 7:31:57 GMT -5
Neither staying nor leaving is simple. Making a plan and taking even tiny steps toward leaving is progress. Everybody who landed here is fortunate to have this source of info and support.
I was married 34 years. The last 8, 5 straight others were completely sexless. There were other Individual completely sexless years and years that had sex less than 10 times a year. I became seriously depressed, contemplated suicide, felt like a nothing. Didn’t find this site until I was out of my sm and in a romantic, sexual, loving relationship I’m still in 4 years later.
Yes it’s not simple getting out of a failed marriage. But if you found this place, you have support that can ease your path out if you choose to use the support here. One small step at a time can lead to freedom.
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Post by WindSister on Dec 19, 2017 12:58:42 GMT -5
I agree with the author on the above point. It's not always a personal defect and talking about things does help. It's human nature, I think, anytime we vent or complain outloud, those who are listening want to FIX it. FIX us. Offer advise, help, etc. I used to take the things people offered me as gospel, but I have learned the "take it or leave it" mantra and it works for me now. I can hear what people have to say, process it and decide to dump it as "not for me" if I want.  It's freeing. It's wonderful. I just caution people with the whole labeling others as "narcissists" etc. I see SO many Facebook articles about that and so many commenters in those articles are going on and on how they have been wronged. I think it's important to remember we have personal responsibility too, and there is no power in staying/remaining a victim, expecting others to always apologize or put ourselves on some pedestal of "being the one wronged to" who has to "be strong and forgive others even though they don't apologize." Self empowerment lies in personal responsibility. It's just a fact. Giving our power away to others will only keep us down. I am responsible for my own happiness and how I let others treat me. It's not easy, but that doesn't make it any less true. |
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Post by M2G on Dec 19, 2017 14:39:33 GMT -5
Without labeling Narcissist, Borderline, sociopath, psychopath, dickhead or whatever - let's just use the good old term "abuser."
Over time people become enmeshed - not knowing where they (as individuals) begin or end and where the abuser begins or ends. Breaking away can be extremely difficult as the abused no longer believes they can live or function without the abuser there to "help" them. Lack of confidence, lack of a sense of self, ego crushing shame, gas-lighting (the abused begins to believe they are the abuser, or the "crazy one") and more (including physical violence and threats of death) - can hold the victim in proverbial chains for a lifetime.
So - not so easy just to say: "Buck up and just GO!" if you're not the abused party.
Go where? Family detached and alienated. No friends. No monetary resources. No confidence. No sense of self. No HOPE, sometimes no real recognition that there is anything wrong (especially with children).
Takes a lot of guts to walk away with nothing but the clothes on your back (Tina Turner) - and what about any children that may be involved?
Oversimplifications like -"grow a pair" are not going to work - that will only make things worse because the victim will feel even more shame, that someone outside the "relationship" now confirms that they are worthless and weak.
While I agree that these conditions are thrown around now like party favors, we need to keep an open mind regarding the serious and sincerity of enmeshed people, because sometimes we may be their only hope.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 19, 2017 15:09:52 GMT -5
“So - not so easy just to say: "Buck up and just GO!" if you're not the abused party.
Go where? Family detached and alienated. No friends. No monetary resources. No confidence. No sense of self. No HOPE, sometimes no real recognition that there is anything wrong (especially with children).”
There still are small steps one can take. Those can include reading about healing from abusive relationships. Joining online support groups designed for such people; participating actively here not just to complain but also to create step by step an escape plan.
Finding counseling online if there aren’t In person resources in your area. Seeking ways of making money even if that’s the pennies one makes taking surveys from one’s home computer. Secreting money away to help with one’s future needs. Talking to a lawyer to discover one’s rights. The first visit may be free. Getting advice from a battered wonen’s shelter.
While venting is helpful, doing only venting years on end does not help you get out of a marriage that’s destroying you. After a while, too, people who care about you will get tired of hearing only complaints from you with no efforts on your part to get out of your misery. It is awful to see someone you care about you stuck in a rut and not making efforts to get out. Also the people whom one vents to have problems on their own. Everyone has their own problems. Friendship should be a 2-way street. Often, however, those who do nothing but vent to others are so wrapped up in their own problems that they have no interest or compassion for their friends' difficulties. Friendships involve give and take. Often those who constantly vent to friends just take from their friends while being at home the person who gives and gives and gives to their abusive mate. The people who really care about them end up feeling used and then decide to move on.
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Post by M2G on Dec 19, 2017 16:01:47 GMT -5
“So - not so easy just to say: "Buck up and just GO!" if you're not the abused party. Go where? Family detached and alienated. No friends. No monetary resources. No confidence. No sense of self. No HOPE, sometimes no real recognition that there is anything wrong (especially with children).” There still are small steps one can take. Those can include reading about healing from abusive relationships. Joining online support groups designed for such people; participating actively here not just to complain but also to create step by step an escape plan. Finding counseling online if there aren’t In person resources in your area. Seeking ways of making money even if that’s the pennies one makes taking surveys from one’s home computer. Secreting money away to help with one’s future needs. Talking to a lawyer to discover one’s rights. The first visit may be free. Getting advice from a battered wonen’s shelter. While venting is helpful, doing only ventungvyears on end does not help you get out of a marriage that’s destroying you. After a while, too, people who care about you will get tired of hearing only complaints from you with no efforts on destroying part to get out of your misery. It is awful to see someone you are about you stuck in a rut and not making efforts to get out. Well yeah - if it's a friend who constantly complains about their partner where there is no abuse just incompatibility I've many times (and my W has too) to leave or shut up about it already. That's a given. Supporting friends is one thing - but it has limits - who wants to listen to the same old tired rant over and over? |
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 19, 2017 16:53:05 GMT -5
Even if there is abuse, even the most caring friends or relatives get fed up after only hearing complaints but seeing no action to get away. It is painful to repeatedly hear about the abuse of someone you care about. The caring friend ends up feeling miserable and helpless and used because they are expected to just listen to repeated tales of misery while their abused friend rejects help and does nothing to help themselves. It’s a downer to be around such a person. Typically, such friendships end up being one sided: the abused person dumps their problems on their friend. The friend listens. That gets old and draining after a while. Also, the friend probably has their own problems, too, to worry about.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 22:09:42 GMT -5
It seems to me that "caring" friends, who truly care, will listen for as long as it takes for the person to wake up to the abuse. Isn't that what true friends are for? I know I have friends who listen patiently and who have for years. Others (including some family members) don't understand my process and want me to work on their timeline. The only thing that has come from that is that I've learned to measure my words with them. Learn who your best listeners are and keep talking about this, keep processing it.
I also want to share this recent piece of wisdom from my therapist: When you're married to a manipulator (call them whatever you want, a narcissist, a sociopath, a plain old jerk), it takes years to wake up to it. It's almost as though you've been brainwashed for years. The layers get peeled away over time, until finally, the veil lifts and you see the relationship for what it was/is. And, yes, according to her, it really, truly takes that long - years, maybe decades.
People who don't understand or respect how long it takes to wake up from this kind of abuse will try to "wake you up" themselves. As though what they tell you will magically and instantly fix you and make you recover from years of brainwashing, mistreatment, manipulation, lies, emotional abuse, and neglect. It can't happen that way. This is your journey, not theirs. Your brain can only take in little pieces of this at a time, at a speed that's right for YOU.
The truth is that you are processing this piece by piece. Respect your own process. Take your time. Keep asking these questions, keep digging, keep waking up little by little. You're already awake to what your husband is, and I think we can safely call him a classic narcissist or even a sociopath. I know the term narcissist is over-used these days, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still fit your husband. Personally, I think there's a bit of an epidemic of narcissists going on in the world right now. So, it may not even be that the term is over-used, it may be that we're finally using it correctly and that it applies widely in this crazy egocentric world we live in.
I'm sorry you're tethered to this man. He's abusive. There is no question. But right now, for reasons you may not even fully understand, you aren't ready to leave and that's OK. When you're ready, there won't be any other action for you to take, and you'll just leave. And if you're never ready, then perhaps the relationship serves another purpose and you're better off holding onto it. That's OK too! As my therapist would say, there's no need to judge your actions or reactions. Just watch them. And keep processing.
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 19, 2017 23:01:20 GMT -5
"It seems to me that "caring" friends, who truly care, will listen for as long as it takes for the person to wake up to the abuse. "
I think that's unrealistic. People have their own lives, sorrows, worries, concerns, too. Most people, no matter how much they care about you, are not going to stick around for multiple years listening to one vent about being mentally, verbally or physically abused. It is soul-searing to be around a person who only complains about their life but takes no steps to change it. Also, people who are themselves mired in misery aren't likely to have the strength or compassion to be there for their friends, too, especially if they are in the habit of using their friends as dumping grounds. No wonder how wonderful one's friends' lives seem to be, at some point they will have losses, illnesses, fears, and situations that mean they could benefit from the support of others.
At some point, most people will give up on a help-rejecting complainer and will move on to spend time with people who are more positive about their life and are able to engage in a friendship in which each support the other.
It's an individual's responsibility to take steps to improve their life instead of constantly venting to others or expecting unconditional support. Whether this means engaging in personal healing through individual therapy; journaling; reading self-help books or participating in self help groups, in the end, it's up to an individual to save themselves even if that means taking baby step by baby step. It's not realistic nor is it fair to expect others to be constant sources of supports for years and decades when one takes no steps to improve one's life.
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Post by M2G on Dec 19, 2017 23:29:24 GMT -5
My test of that, is simple. If the friend in need is also a friend when I'm in need, then I'll stick with them for as long as a lifetime.
If I'm forced to shoulder all the burden with no reciprocity when I'm in need, its ghost time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 14:44:02 GMT -5
My test of that, is simple. If the friend in need is also a friend when I'm in need, then I'll stick with them for as long as a lifetime. If I'm forced to shoulder all the burden with no reciprocity when I'm in need, its ghost time. This is probably the key - mutual support. Sometimes, compassionate and reflective listening is the greatest gift you can offer someone on their journey. Everyone is on their own timeline. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 20, 2017 15:09:55 GMT -5
My test of that, is simple. If the friend in need is also a friend when I'm in need, then I'll stick with them for as long as a lifetime. If I'm forced to shoulder all the burden with no reciprocity when I'm in need, its ghost time. So why don't we apply that in a marriage? |
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It's freeing. It's wonderful. 
