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Post by shamwow on Oct 30, 2017 14:31:12 GMT -5
Most people know what a FWB is...Friend With Benefits. The benefits are pretty self-explanatory I believe. The most alluring part of a FWB for many people is the "no strings attached" nature of the relationship (if you can pull it off). For people with a healthy sex drive, this can provide people an outlet for their needs when a relationship is not available / desired. I've never been in one of these types of relationships, but I imagine that it could be a very liberating experience. Most people don't know what a FWD is. The reason is that I just coined the phrase this weekend. A FWD is a Friend With Duties. A FWD relationship very seldom takes place outside of the institution we call marriage. It is "all work and no play". It is what happens when you take the marriage out of marriage. It is what you get when you say "everything is great except the sex". It is co-parenting with your roommate. It is soul-crushing. The reason why a FWD relationship almost exclusively exists within the institution of marriage is that people who have a choice usually get the fuck of these things as fast as possible. What I have right now is a FWE. If you haven't guessed, it's a Friend With Everything. ballofconfusion and I are best friends. We are lovers. We laugh together, we cry together. As we get to know each other better, quirks have manifested themselves. Some people would be annoyed with these some of these quirks. We just smile and laugh. Our quirks are part of the special sauce that make up "us". Is everything eternally sunny? Nope. Sometimes one or the other of us steps on a landmine (usually relating back to our SM). When that happens, we understand, talk about it, and move on. There will never be a ring. Neither of us places much value in that particular institution after our 45 combined years of sexless marriage (both having been bait/switched from day one). It might be different if we had any plans of children, but we've both been there and done that. But rings aside, we are already making plans years down the road. This is amazing considering we have only known each other a little more than 8 months now and live 1300 miles apart. We are not FWB. We are sure as fuck not FWD. We are FWE, and are both lucky as hell to have found each other. |
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Post by WindSister on Oct 30, 2017 14:50:47 GMT -5
Love all of it and I agree.  I have said it a million times, but will again -- I am very happy for you both. And at this stage of the game, no need to say things like, "We have only known each other x amount of time." When it works, it works. Period. That's how it was for me and my husband, we knew right away that we were something special. Of course, we did get married, but I still have choices, as does he. In our state common law would step in if we wanted to live together anyway, and we just wanted all the benefits of being married (for us). But, married or not, the truth is there IS always a choice, it just becomes a matter of if one is willing to make that choice or not. Breaking up a long-term relationship is hard (married or not). That's just my little blurb on that anyway. This quote touched my heart - especially when others tried to downplay my connection to my husband because we weren't together "long" (not on this board, real life). Length of time together does not signify quality.   |
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Post by Caris on Oct 30, 2017 17:38:33 GMT -5
I think people who have experienced a SM would do better with someone who has experienced the same because “land mines” stepped on are to be expected. We are vulnerable and can be hyper sensitive associating an innocent remark or gesture (or lack of) with our past refuser. One who has never suffered through a SM may not understand, or have the patience with the escapees quirks, just seeing them as “carrying too much baggage.” and therefore too much hard work. Post SM people need to regain trust that was lost with the refuser. That requires patience and understanding, and a willingness to work through it as a couple. A new partner not understanding how it is, may not have those qualities. I’m sure there are some that do, but I think most would have a hard time finding one. I think northstarmom was one of the lucky ones in that respect. |
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Post by baza on Oct 30, 2017 19:30:00 GMT -5
All I'd add to this discussion is that the FWD (Friend With Duties) description when applied to a dysfunctional relationship, fails miserably on the basic "Friend" part of the description.
If a "Friend" treated you in the same off handed manner a refuser spouse did, I am tipping that the friendship progressively evaporates.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 30, 2017 20:37:43 GMT -5
"I think people who have experienced a SM would do better with someone who has experienced the same because “land mines” stepped on are to be expected. We are vulnerable and can be hyper sensitive associating an innocent remark or gesture (or lack of) with our past refuser."
I know that this choice of post SM partner has worked well for several here including some whose post SM relationships have remained happy and sexually fulfilling for five or more years.
What I wanted when I left my SM was a relationship with someone who could not imagine being in a longtime involuntarily sexless relationship. I knew that for me to have stayed for 36 years in a relationship that had been completely sexless for periods that added up to more than 13 years, I had to be very dysfunctional. I didn't want to end up with someone with a similar dysfunction. I wanted to be with someone who viewed sex as natural and expected in a relationship. So, that's the kind of partner I sought and found. I also didn't tell him about my SM until we had been lovers for several months. I wanted him to view me as a sexually healthy person, not someone who was healing or in need of support in order to be sexually functional. Even though when we made love for the first time, it had been 8 straight years since I'd had sex (and in the years before that, I'd had sex perhaps 1-2 times a year),it was like riding a bike again, it was that easy and natural. If, however, he'd known how long it had been for me and how horrible my sex life had been, I would have felt much more awkward and afraid of being judged. Instead, I acted like making love with a man who desired me was natural and expected, and i fell right into the groove.
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Post by allworkandnoplay on Oct 30, 2017 21:11:02 GMT -5
Hey shamwow , I should have at least had a tag out of that  |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 31, 2017 12:31:22 GMT -5
All I'd add to this discussion is that the FWD (Friend With Duties) description when applied to a dysfunctional relationship, fails miserably on the basic "Friend" part of the description. If a "Friend" treated you in the same off handed manner a refuser spouse did, I am tipping that the friendship progressively evaporates. I totally agree. I also think that when most people get here, they still believe they and their spouse are friends. I sure did. Then the fog lifted. |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 31, 2017 12:32:09 GMT -5
Hey shamwow , I should have at least had a tag out of that Truth! My apologies, friend. |
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 31, 2017 19:25:48 GMT -5
I think people who have experienced a SM would do better with someone who has experienced the same because “land mines” stepped on are to be expected. We are vulnerable and can be hyper sensitive associating an innocent remark or gesture (or lack of) with our past refuser. One who has never suffered through a SM may not understand, or have the patience with the escapees quirks, just seeing them as “carrying too much baggage.” and therefore too much hard work. Post SM people need to regain trust that was lost with the refuser. That requires patience and understanding, and a willingness to work through it as a couple. A new partner not understanding how it is, may not have those qualities. I’m sure there are some that do, but I think most would have a hard time finding one. I think northstarmom was one of the lucky ones in that respect. Having talked to people in SMs, and survivors of, I would not choose a future partner from outside that group. We "get it". If you have tried to explain your sexless marriage to anyone else, and seen the look of bewilderment... meh, I would rather be intimate with someone I could identify with. |
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Post by Caris on Nov 1, 2017 9:24:43 GMT -5
I think people who have experienced a SM would do better with someone who has experienced the same because “land mines” stepped on are to be expected. We are vulnerable and can be hyper sensitive associating an innocent remark or gesture (or lack of) with our past refuser. One who has never suffered through a SM may not understand, or have the patience with the escapees quirks, just seeing them as “carrying too much baggage.” and therefore too much hard work. Post SM people need to regain trust that was lost with the refuser. That requires patience and understanding, and a willingness to work through it as a couple. A new partner not understanding how it is, may not have those qualities. I’m sure there are some that do, but I think most would have a hard time finding one. I think northstarmom was one of the lucky ones in that respect. Having talked to people in SMs, and survivors of, I would not choose a future partner from outside that group. We "get it". If you have tried to explain your sexless marriage to anyone else, and seen the look of bewilderment... meh, I would rather be intimate with someone I could identify with. Many years before my sexless (and abusive) marriage, I recall reading a newspaper story about a married couple who were sexless because one person wouldn’t have sex with the other. I thought it was weird. I thought they were both weird. Why would anyone stay with a spouse who refused sex? You’d have to be crazy. This right here shows that I, for one, could not understand or relate to the plight of the refused. It’s only because I experienced it myself that I can relate and understand, so I agree with you. Unless one gets very lucky, I don’t think those who have been through it will have the necessary qualities to deal with a post SM partner, which makes finding a new partner even more difficult. |
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Post by WindSister on Nov 1, 2017 10:02:29 GMT -5
I am not pouncing on people's preferences, but just offering my own experience. My husband was never in a sexless marriage or relationship and I feel we have a good thing. Just getting it out there. Again, people believe what they believe and want what they want - I am really not trying to be argumentative, just sharing that my experience is different. My husband is empathetic, emotionally available, committed to making our relationship not only last, but HAPPY and he gets me. He never experienced sexual droughts like I did but his marriage was dysfunctional and left scars just like mine did, only slightly different scars. Everyone has baggage, it's just a matter of finding someone with whom you can unload yours with (as the cliche goes). |
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 1, 2017 11:32:16 GMT -5
It sounds like some people want partners who will support them and empathize when they talk about their sm.
Others don’t want partners with that kind of past.
Maybe the difference in preference is due to how present the baggage from one’s sm is. If the wound still feels fresh, then one might have more of a need to be with someone who also has suffered that kind of hurt.
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Post by DryCreek on Nov 1, 2017 12:25:19 GMT -5
Maybe the difference in preference is due to how present the baggage from one’s sm is. If the wound still feels fresh, then one might have more of a need to be with someone who also has suffered that kind of hurt. Agreed. A few folks here have related how very tenuous or even fearful they were of overstepping boundaries in a new relationship, and how they needed to be coaxed out of their shell and back into healthy behavior. Even how they were tearful after the first hug, kiss, or sex. I think most people who've never been through a sexless marriage would be thoroughly freaked out and run away from that situation. Once someone's been out long enough and past the initial recovery, I can see the logic (like yours, I recall) of not wanting someone with an SM past, nor even mentioning it for fear of being seen as damaged goods. So, as you say, it's probably a dynamic need. Certainly no one-size-fits all. Personally, even for long-term value, I can see the benefits of a partner who's survived and has a deep appreciation of never letting it happen again. Certainly, the short-term value of understanding/supporting the healing process. Not that you can't get that same attitude out of someone who's never experienced it, but the odds are very different. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 1, 2017 12:49:30 GMT -5
What does AA say about that? Are you better to team up in a relationship with someone who is a recovered Alcoholic? Or someone who has never had a drinking problem?
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 1, 2017 14:12:30 GMT -5
“Personally, even for long-term value, I can see the benefits of a partner who's survived and has a deep appreciation of never letting it happen again. Certainly, the short-term value of understanding/supporting the healing process. Not that you can't get that same attitude out of someone who's never experienced it, but the odds are very different.”
While I haven’t found it important or necessary to be with a partner who has been in a sm, when getting into a relationship, I thought it was important that my partner has learned from previous relationship mistakes and is no longer angry, bitter or grieving. As a person in my 60s, I expected that prospective partners had had some failed relationships. How they viewed such relationships was what was important. I didn’t want to be with someone who saw themselves as completely blameless or who hadn’t themselves learned from the relationship.
Somewhat ironically, my partner and I had both had partners who cheated on us and then moved to Asia to be with their lover. His did that while he was engaged about 10 years before we started dating. My (refuser) husband cheated with a lover in Asia then moved there when we divorced.
My partner and I were on about our fourth date when we learned that about each other. We laughed because such experiences are rare. But we have never talked a lot about those experiences or about our exes except to say that a benefit of those breakups was that they freed us to find each other.
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I have said it a million times, but will again -- I am very happy for you both. And at this stage of the game, no need to say things like, "We have only known each other x amount of time." When it works, it works. Period. That's how it was for me and my husband, we knew right away that we were something special. Of course, we did get married, but I still have choices, as does he. In our state common law would step in if we wanted to live together anyway, and we just wanted all the benefits of being married (for us). But, married or not, the truth is there IS always a choice, it just becomes a matter of if one is willing to make that choice or not. Breaking up a long-term relationship is hard (married or not). That's just my little blurb on that anyway. 
