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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 19, 2017 12:43:06 GMT -5
Mine liked to casually drop into conversation with other people that he wanted blow jobs, sex, etc but that I wasn't forthcoming. He made me look like the refuser. WTF? And yes I was complicit. When i stopped being complicit he stopped pretending he was the one who wanted sex.
As for whether refusal is emotional abuse.... no, it isn't. Not consenting to have sex with someone is never emotional abuse. However, my abuser used my normal and natural desire to have sex to control and humiliate me. He expected fidelity when he knew I was desperate for physical connection. That's the bit that was emotional abuse.
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Post by shamwow on Oct 19, 2017 13:20:48 GMT -5
This maybe the theme of many but not all. I'd like to explore a different perspective than the traditional sex is ikey and my religion says so. What about general lose of interest, being comfortable, or just plainly not caring. My marriage started off as 50 shades of grey and turned into the book of celibacy. Why is that, for me I have a half assed hold on why, but for many the answer eludes them, and the refused turns the blame on themselves rather than outward. And for many projecting the facade that were a happy healthy family is not only for that person's sanity, but also for the other members of the family mainly the children. No one wants to explain the reason Mommy and Daddy are fighting to a 5 year old,so avoiding the argument is the best option. I asked a question that was never answered, and I'll post a thread on it later today. I personally think that society accepts SM, look at most sitcoms, at the end of most the husband asks the wife if he's going to get lucky, she rejects him the crowd laughs and the credits run. So it's socially acceptable for a partner to deny sex and intamacy. So instead of looking at it as a bad thing it is the now looked at as normal. No one looks at Ray and says poor guy, wife is rejecting him, they laugh and say silly Ray better luck next time. It would be socially acceptable if the woman turned down the man on TV. It is NOT socially acceptable for the man to not want sex with his wife (only contrary example to this I can think of is Al Bundy on Married with Children). That is why I think this deal is a lot more raw for the ladies than us guys. As shitty as our situation is, we knew the stereotype and walked right into it. The ladies with a libido walk into a minefield not even aware they are doing so. |
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Post by shamwow on Oct 19, 2017 13:25:23 GMT -5
I believe completely depriving one's sexually willing spouse of sex is emotional abuse if one is sexually able and in a monagamous relationship. One could at least give a hand job, watch a spouse masturbate or give permission to outsource. Some refusers even forbid their partners from masturbating. That's emotional abuse. I would substitute the word "domination" rather than the word "abuse" |
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Post by h on Oct 19, 2017 13:37:00 GMT -5
This maybe the theme of many but not all. I'd like to explore a different perspective than the traditional sex is ikey and my religion says so. What about general lose of interest, being comfortable, or just plainly not caring. My marriage started off as 50 shades of grey and turned into the book of celibacy. Why is that, for me I have a half assed hold on why, but for many the answer eludes them, and the refused turns the blame on themselves rather than outward. And for many projecting the facade that were a happy healthy family is not only for that person's sanity, but also for the other members of the family mainly the children. No one wants to explain the reason Mommy and Daddy are fighting to a 5 year old,so avoiding the argument is the best option. I asked a question that was never answered, and I'll post a thread on it later today. I personally think that society accepts SM, look at most sitcoms, at the end of most the husband asks the wife if he's going to get lucky, she rejects him the crowd laughs and the credits run. So it's socially acceptable for a partner to deny sex and intamacy. So instead of looking at it as a bad thing it is the now looked at as normal. No one looks at Ray and says poor guy, wife is rejecting him, they laugh and say silly Ray better luck next time. It would be socially acceptable if the woman turned down the man on TV. It is NOT socially acceptable for the man to not want sex with his wife (only contrary example to this I can think of is Al Bundy on Married with Children). That is why I think this deal is a lot more raw for the ladies than us guys. As shitty as our situation is, we knew the stereotype and walked right into it. The ladies with a libido walk into a minefield not even aware they are doing so. Nice examples. You're right, Al Bundy was the only TV male refuser I can remember. I really wonder why refusing is so acceptable on TV. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 13:44:50 GMT -5
I’m old enough to remember Three’s Company. The landlord, Mr. Roper, was a refuser; and the audience was supposed to think Mrs. Roper was pathetic.
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Post by aguywithneeds on Oct 19, 2017 17:45:02 GMT -5
Man if there was a male refuser on TV today, the show wouldn't make it through half the season before they were rewriting the script. I watch a lot of premium shows, game of thrones being one of my favorites, and they get a lot a flak due to female nudity and other scenes. I could only imagine what would happen if the upbeat couple with the strong female lead looks at the witty dad and says come on babe and the witty dad says sorry I have a headache better luck next time, crowd applause credits run. I bet there'd be 10,000 Twitter comments before the credits finished, bashing the witty dad.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 19, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5
I’m old enough to remember Three’s Company. The landlord, Mr. Roper, was a refuser; and the audience was supposed to think Mrs. Roper was pathetic. OMG I am fucking Mrs Roper. Fuuuuuuck |
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Post by brian on Oct 19, 2017 20:49:33 GMT -5
This maybe the theme of many but not all. I'd like to explore a different perspective than the traditional sex is ikey and my religion says so. What about general lose of interest, being comfortable, or just plainly not caring. My marriage started off as 50 shades of grey and turned into the book of celibacy. Why is that, for me I have a half assed hold on why, but for many the answer eludes them, and the refused turns the blame on themselves rather than outward. And for many projecting the facade that were a happy healthy family is not only for that person's sanity, but also for the other members of the family mainly the children. No one wants to explain the reason Mommy and Daddy are fighting to a 5 year old,so avoiding the argument is the best option. I asked a question that was never answered, and I'll post a thread on it later today. I personally think that society accepts SM, look at most sitcoms, at the end of most the husband asks the wife if he's going to get lucky, she rejects him the crowd laughs and the credits run. So it's socially acceptable for a partner to deny sex and intamacy. So instead of looking at it as a bad thing it is the now looked at as normal. No one looks at Ray and says poor guy, wife is rejecting him, they laugh and say silly Ray better luck next time. Okay... how about this perspective... refusers have sex when they want what can be gained from it. It's a means to an end, a system of bartering. While dating, have sex to get them to marry you. Once married, you can stop having sex because they got what they wanted... until they want children. Have a child, no sex until they want another. Once all of the kids that they want have been had, no/little sex from then on because there is nothing to gain from it. They are married, have a family, and their spouse is moderately tethered to this family unit. They are satisfied and content. The refused can spend a long time trying to figure out why, and by the time we come to our senses, it could be a decade or two later. I envy those who come to this site and are only a couple of years into their SM. I'm 2 decades in. It was 15 years before I truly changed from the inside. And yes... I know I can change my situation. I can choose to change it. I have a timeline. Believe me, I have been here (and its predecessor) longer than all but a handful of us (although I was a lurker). I have grown and changed in ways I never thought I could or would. I feel liberated. I'm no longer in jail. I do things for me and screw what others think of me (including my children and roomie, for the most part). So... they can see sex not as an intimate act, but as a weapon/tool to get what they want. When it no longer serves that purpose, they discard it. Funny thing is... we let them do it. I let her do it. All in the name of "keeping the peace", or because I didn't understand my emotional state as well as I do now... after a long journey of self discovery. |
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Post by baza on Oct 19, 2017 20:51:20 GMT -5
I think we should all run our lives based on what happens on tv shows.
What could possibly go wrong ?
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 19, 2017 20:51:53 GMT -5
A reminder that there are folks like me who never thought shows like Three's a company were funny. Perhaps a way to identify refusers would be to ask them about their favorite tv shows. I really liked Masters of sex .  |
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Post by h on Oct 19, 2017 21:14:24 GMT -5
I really liked "Married with Children" because it amazed me to see a wife who wanted her husband. Now though, I like shows that don't have any sex in them at all (hard to find now) so I don't have to think about what's missing in my life.
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Post by M2G on Oct 19, 2017 23:12:20 GMT -5
A big part of it, is that people are conditioned (by religion or society or up-bringing) that sex is BAD, dirty, and never to be discussed unless you're some kind of pervert. The USA was founded by Puritans - so sexual abuse of the deprivation kind is a non-issue to the majority of the population. The idea of coming out as a victim, is stifled by the fear of shaming, ridicule, and the idea that it's the fault of the victim. 'nuff said. 'nuff said? I don't think so. I think if you polled the people in this group, you would likely find that most people here do not believe that sex is bad or dirty. And yet, most of us/them are complicit and even invested in maintaining the appearance of marriage. Deprivation of sex is not sexual abuse, even if it's unpleasant, unless one is starting with the premise that one is entitled to sex and that one owes sex, even to people who you don't want to fuck. You aren't a "victim of the crime of sexlessness." Sex is available - if not within the context of marriage. That means there is choice, agency. I think you are talking about the lack of empathy here, and it's right to focus on that - but on both sides of it. Empathizing with the premise that one partner doesn't want to have sex with someone (for whatever reasons), balances the responsibilities in the equation, in which BOTH parties are invested in upholding the appearance of a marriage, while being celibate relationship. Regardless of the position of being trapped in a marriage to a person who you don't want to fuck, or being trapped in a marriage with someone who doesn't want to fuck you, both are still choosing it (choosing to stay sexless and in the marriage). I'm not suggesting this out of some sense of moral obligation; it's more about recognizing one's own sense of agency in upholding an unwanted situation. Strongly disagree. The withholding of intimacy from those one purports to love can be, and often is, one of the most damaging forms of abuse. It shames the denied, destroys self confidence and esteem and, especially in children, can warp their self image into complete wreckage and self hatred that will last a lifetime and can never be fully repaired. I was that child. I still am that child. I think about that twisted bastard every single day. "Entitled?" Why that choice of word? It implies the whining of a taker. It implies selfishness. It implies weakness. Moreover, it crushes any thought of kindness or compassion. "Recognizing one's sense of agency?" That is blaming and shaming the victim. I can only say that, from me, my loved ones are entitled to my very best, every day, every hour, every minute. From me they are entitled to my love, my full support, my willingness to walk with them through the darkest hours. They are entitled to my partnership in and against all adversity. They are entitled to my kindness, my compassion, my understanding, my very life. I have no concerns about appearances. I'm just wrestling through one of the toughest parts of my life. Guilty as charged. This is about a lot more than just fucking. |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 20, 2017 7:50:11 GMT -5
Well said. I think it is different in the eyes of society for men and women.
This week I was at this gathering for moms. The speaker was briefly talking about the changes that come with kids. She was saying people have expectations when they get married and that men expect to have sex all the time. Then she said actually there are a smaller subset of men that don't want sex at all. One of the women in the audience yelled out "That is a dream man!" And the entire group of about 150 women laughed uproariously. Except me. WTF?
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Post by h on Oct 20, 2017 8:06:37 GMT -5
Well said. I think it is different in the eyes of society for men and women. This week I was at this gathering for moms. The speaker was briefly talking about the changes that come with kids. She was saying people have expectations when they get married and that men expect to have sex all the time. Then she said actually there are a smaller subset of men that don't want sex at all. One of the women in the audience yelled out "That is a dream man!" And the entire group of about 150 women laughed uproariously. Except me. WTF? You should have asked if she wanted to trade. |
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Post by aguywithneeds on Oct 20, 2017 11:35:55 GMT -5
Well said. I think it is different in the eyes of society for men and women. This week I was at this gathering for moms. The speaker was briefly talking about the changes that come with kids. She was saying people have expectations when they get married and that men expect to have sex all the time. Then she said actually there are a smaller subset of men that don't want sex at all. One of the women in the audience yelled out "That is a dream man!" And the entire group of about 150 women laughed uproariously. Except me. WTF? I wonder how many sheepishly laughed because they were in denial. It takes a strong person to go against the grain. |
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