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Post by mescaline on Sept 29, 2017 6:57:09 GMT -5
lifeinwoodinville - I'm sorry you're in the same boat. For what it's worth I don't think any of us are schmucks, just trying to find a way out of a situation we've ended up in without causing too much harm to the ones we love. That's a pretty good goal to aim for in my opinion.
On the plus side, while I'm avoiding my wife I do get a lot of housework done. I never realised quite how much time TV absorbed!
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Post by neonspace on Sept 29, 2017 7:18:31 GMT -5
I did a double take when I read you took hormones to reduce your drive. You are normal and just stuck in a shit situation. I also have the kids in the picture so I understand. Things are complicated when you are living it. You came to the right place. There were several times I have googled "chemical castration" as an option. anything to ease the pain. Then I realized that wasn't what my pain was really about. |
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Post by mescaline on Sept 29, 2017 8:02:40 GMT -5
That was what led me to experiment neonspace. I thought anything was worth a try, I did fully research it beforehand, it wasn't purely a kneejerk response, and having a bit of science background I kind of understood what I needed to do - check out the impacts and side effects, find out a reliable, legal source that could be verified by an external agency. Then checked out dosage levels and what they were typically used for treating. All that kind of stuff.
Didn't seem to work very well, and I didn't want to up the dosage too high due to side effects (I'm HL, not seeking to be trans!). Also, the potential for knackering my own internal body chemistry was a bit of a fear.
Not something I would recommend for a range of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 13:32:40 GMT -5
1. I suggested counselling, but was rebuffed.
2. I've tried to reduce my own sex drive through various methods - hormones, herbal, psychoactive substances, CBT and good old masturbation.
3. I've been to counseling on my own to see if it was my problem.
4. I actively avoid my wife when it's just me and her, I'm trying to view her purely as the mother of our children rather than as a sexual being in her own right.
5. I can't afford to run two households big enough for me and my kids. So if I move out I would only see them during the day it would be crap for me, though I think they would cope fine. Thank you for posting your story. I have broken it down to the issues I see. 1. If she refuses counseling, then it seems that she does not care about this issue. It is important to you, but she doesn't care. It is logical to believe that she does not care about you. 2. I understand trying to reduce your sex drive. I did this myself, but nothing worked. I also don't think it is good to try to change your nature. You have as much right to a satisfying sex life as anyone else. Your W is the one who has independently decided to foist a sexless marriage on you. You signed up for monogamy, not celibacy. 3. I am guessing counseling made you realize that you cannot make a better marriage alone. Your W has to participate for it to work. 4. Avoiding your wife and not seeing her as a sexual being sounds to me like you are already checked out emotionally. It happens when there is no sex. It is like a brick wall with no mortar. There is nothing to hold the bricks together and eventually the wall is going to collapse. I am betting you will continue to emotionally detach from her until you resent her or have no feelings for her at all. 5. You sound like a wonderful man & husband. But why should you have to support two households? Your W is an adult, not a child. She has made the independent decision to stop being a wife and just be a roommate. Roommates have to support themselves. If your wife wants a marriage partnership, she is going to have to act like a wife who loves and desires her husband. My friend, I understand your feeling that you are stuck. I felt the same way for a long time, but I was wrong. You can do something about this & make your life much better if you want. Keep reading and posting here and you may feel that you can make other choices. But we will support you whether you stay or decide to leave. If you are interested, there is a link to my blog at the bottom of this post. I wrote a lot about my feelings toward the end of my nightmare of a marriage. You may see some of your feelings there. |
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Post by mescaline on Sept 30, 2017 2:53:04 GMT -5
Thank you for posting your story. I have broken it down to the issues I see. 1. If she refuses counseling, then it seems that she does not care about this issue. It is important to you, but she doesn't care. It is logical to believe that she does not care about you. 2. I understand trying to reduce your sex drive. I did this myself, but nothing worked. I also don't think it is good to try to change your nature. You have as much right to a satisfying sex life as anyone else. Your W is the one who has independently decided to foist a sexless marriage on you. You signed up for monogamy, not celibacy. 3. I am guessing counseling made you realize that you cannot make a better marriage alone. Your W has to participate for it to work. 4. Avoiding your wife and not seeing her as a sexual being sounds to me like you are already checked out emotionally. It happens when there is no sex. It is like a brick wall with no mortar. There is nothing to hold the bricks together and eventually the wall is going to collapse. I am betting you will continue to emotionally detach from her until you resent her or have no feelings for her at all. 5. You sound like a wonderful man & husband. But why should you have to support two households? Your W is an adult, not a child. She has made the independent decision to stop being a wife and just be a roommate. Roommates have to support themselves. If your wife wants a marriage partnership, she is going to have to act like a wife who loves and desires her husband. My friend, I understand your feeling that you are stuck. I felt the same way for a long time, but I was wrong. You can do something about this & make your life much better if you want. Keep reading and posting here and you may feel that you can make other choices. But we will support you whether you stay or decide to leave. If you are interested, there is a link to my blog at the bottom of this post. I wrote a lot about my feelings toward the end of my nightmare of a marriage. You may see some of your feelings there. Thanks Flashjohn, I've had a quick look at your blog and can certainly relate to the parts I've read. I'll try and read/digest it over a longer period too, I think my thought processes have settled into a pattern that I'm going to find hard to break. Your summary of my story is pretty accurate too. Though I would caveat a couple of points: 1) I don't know why she has refused counselling she said at the time that she didn't think things were bad enough. She was quite emotional and I didn't want to delve into a deep conversation at that point for fear of escalating the situation, she was upset rather than angry I should add. I suspect that she has a significant fear of opening up to anyone, exposing her vulnerability. So I'm not sure that she doesn't care, maybe she just doesn't know how to care? Or I'm just making excuses to hide the truth from myself. 2) True, though I'm sure there would be some people who would argue that once/twice a year doesn't equal celibacy. Doesn't change my feelings though. 3) Exactly, one person in relationship cannot fix it, especially if they have no idea what the problem is. To be honest I'm more pissed off about the lack of communication about this issue than the lack of sex. 4) Unfortunately I don't think I have checked out emotionally. I have been trying to, I know the theory behind withdrawing and distancing myself to make life easier and a potential split easier for both of us, and I have been putting it into action for numerous reasons. I haven't reached the point of checking out yet though, there's still that little bit of optimism that things may change, even if all the evidence points to the contrary. 5) You're not the first to say similar, and I agree, but I also agreed to provide for the family until the kids went to secondary school. I'm okay with breaking my promise of marriage to my wife, I'm not okay with breaking my promise to the kids, even if it wasn't explicitly said to them! I suppose I have mentally separated out the marriage issues from the parenthood issues, and feel that my responsibilities to the latter are far greater than the former. I may come back to this after I've had a think. Please feel free to pull apart my justifications for my choices, I'm aware I need some objective viewpoints and having the experience you and everyone else on this forum has I'd love to learn from it. |
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 30, 2017 7:26:42 GMT -5
"She was quite emotional and I didn't want to delve into a deep conversation at that point for fear of escalating the situation, she was upset rather than angry I should add. I suspect that she has a significant fear of opening up to anyone, exposing her vulnerability. "
That also may be why she refuses sex. However, she is obviously comfortable being emotionally closed and has no desire to change. Your backing off from the subject allows the status quo to remain at the expense of your own deep hurt and loss.
Is this a deal breaker for you? Obviously, she is not going to magically change. Are you willing to sacrifice your life and to continue eliminating deep intimacy from your life? Stay with her and you will become more and more closed in order to be compatible with her and not to feel hurt by her rejection. When you think about your future, will it be ok if you are emotionally closed living with a mere roommate?
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Post by mescaline on Oct 1, 2017 0:50:29 GMT -5
Hi Northstarmom, yes I guess you're right, she is comfortable being closed off.
It is a dealbreaker for me, I won't be staying permanently if the situation continues (which according to the evidence it will). I have seen how her parents are - exactly as you describe - emotionally closed and living as housemates. I have told her I think they should separate. There's no way I'm sticking in a marriage like that for no reason.
Yet, as I've seen in so many posts on here, there's that little bit of me that thinks "if only she could open up, things would get better" I would love to help her be the person she can be, her childhood wasn't happy and I can see why she behaves the way she does. Even if it means we split up at least she could then be happy and that would benefit the kids too. I think there could be an element of codependence involved with our relationship something else to explore.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 1, 2017 8:21:35 GMT -5
"I would love to help her be the person she can be, her childhood wasn't happy and I can see why she behaves the way she does. Even if it means we split up at least she could then be happy and that would benefit the kids too. I think there could be an element of codependence involved with our relationship something else to explore."
She is living the life she wants. She probably wishes she could get you to live the kind of happy life she has in which she is not dependent on others or clingy or desperately seeking emotional bonding.
She does not want to be fixed. You are the codependent one trying to force her to be like you so you can be happy.
The 2 of you view life very differently and have opposite values. You are not compatible. You can not change her to fit your needs and values. Either accept her or completely let go of her and make yourself available to a person who is what you want.
Be the kind of father you believe serves your kids best. That is your responsibility.
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Post by mescaline on Oct 1, 2017 10:05:26 GMT -5
You're right Northstarmom. I need this kind of blunt talk to snap me out of this morass. I've been looking for answers and solutions to things that are ultimately just a waste of my time. Thank you.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 1, 2017 11:04:39 GMT -5
My advice comes from hard earned experience. I was married for 34 years to a man whom I thought was unhappy due to his lack of connection to others, including me. It took lots of therapy for me to understand that it was not my job to change him. He was happy with himself. I was miserable being with him because we were so different.
It wasn't until I divorced at age 61 that I ended up with a man who gives and receives love the way I do. The things about me that baffled or bothered my ex or that he was indifferent to are things my post sm lover relishes. We don't try to change each other. We meet each others' needs with pleasure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 16:08:52 GMT -5
1) I don't know why she has refused counseling she said at the time that she didn't think things were bad enough. She was quite emotional and I didn't want to delve into a deep conversation at that point for fear of escalating the situation, she was upset rather than angry I should add. I suspect that she has a significant fear of opening up to anyone, exposing her vulnerability. So I'm not sure that she doesn't care, maybe she just doesn't know how to care? Or I'm just making excuses to hide the truth from myself. My friend, it sounds like she was using an emotional outburst to avoid doing something she did not want to do. My refuser did this all the time. She thought if she had an outburst that was extreme enough, she could get her way.
2) True, though I'm sure there would be some people who would argue that once/twice a year doesn't equal celibacy. Doesn't change my feelings though. My friend, once or twice a year means that you are beyond patient. This is ample evidence that there is a serious problem.3) Exactly, one person in relationship cannot fix it, especially if they have no idea what the problem is. To be honest I'm more pissed off about the lack of communication about this issue than the lack of sex. Yes, if she won't talk about it, there is no way the issue can be resolved.
4) Unfortunately I don't think I have checked out emotionally. I have been trying to, I know the theory behind withdrawing and distancing myself to make life easier and a potential split easier for both of us, and I have been putting it into action for numerous reasons. I haven't reached the point of checking out yet though, there's still that little bit of optimism that things may change, even if all the evidence points to the contrary. I can certainly understand that. I was hoping that my refuser would change up to a month before I moved out. She had agreed to make an appointment with a gynecologist by a certain date. That date came & she still had not made one. I started looking for my own apartment.5) You're not the first to say similar, and I agree, but I also agreed to provide for the family until the kids went to secondary school. I'm okay with breaking my promise of marriage to my wife, I'm not okay with breaking my promise to the kids, even if it wasn't explicitly said to them! I suppose I have mentally separated out the marriage issues from the parenthood issues, and feel that my responsibilities to the latter are far greater than the former. I may come back to this after I've had a think. Making sure my kids were taken care of was my reason for staying as long as I did. If I had not had the kids, I would have left by 1991. My friend, you are doing very well reading and responding to posts. You are among friends here. |
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Post by mescaline on Oct 4, 2017 7:24:30 GMT -5
Thanks again Flashjohn, I'm still getting through your blog and the myriad of posts on here. Also, still recovering a bit from Northstarmom's post, it was a suckerpunch, but one I needed, and have needed for a long time.
I need to keep it together for now though, nothing is planned for financially or emotionally yet and that needs to be sorted first. Thinking about going back for counselling, but with the specific goal of sorting myself out mentally to leave, rather than fixing something I can't on my own.
I've barely spoken to my wife this last week. We play happy families while the kids are up and about, which I find surprisingly easy: My wife is still the same person and we share similar parenting, relegious and political views, have the same sense of humour etc. It's just when we're alone together when I start thinking of her as my wife, rather than the mother of our kids, when I feel depressed and need to avoid her. It's not the right time to have "that conversation" yet.
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