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Post by novembercomingfire on Sept 13, 2017 11:36:25 GMT -5
I am in the active divorce process, charting an escape from a sexless prison of over twenty years. I moved out of my home two months ago. I see my children on weekends, although this will change in the near future to every other weekend. My life, at present, isn't really better and in some ways feels worse. In fact, it is pretty empty and cold almost all of the time. I am the long term prisoner, sentenced to life without parole, who locked the door with his own key. When I realized that I had the key and theoretically could let myself out, I found that the lock had rusted. So I blew up the prison. This seems to have done a great deal of damage to everyone but my Ex. So with the downtime that I have, alone and without much else to do, I have had a lot of opportunity for reflection. Trying to figure out where it all went wrong for me. This post outlines some of my reflections.
1. I am financially ruined. It is very unlikely that I will be able to pull myself out of my financial hole in my lifetime. As of now, I will never be able to retire. I have a semi-productive professional life, doing something that I don't really like and that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things solely in order to support my Ex and children, and to service my debt. The debt load began by my making certain educational decisions based on what my Ex wanted twenty some odd years ago. So, I have spent my time as the sole income producer, making x while the family expended 2x. I have never been able to crawl out. I will not be able to do so in the short term with child and spousal support. My Ex will take 50% of my retirement savings. I will not be able to survive later on what is left. Hence no retirement.
2. I am stuck without activities or friends. I invested everything that I had in the relationship with my Ex. I commuted 3+ hours a day so we could live in the neighborhood that my Ex wanted. Accordingly, I had approximately 3 hours a day to commit to anything outside of work, sleep, and my commute, which I elected to spend with my Ex and children. They do not remember this, apparently. So I never took the time to meet people or forge friendships. I find it difficult to do so now, given these limitations, and also the fact that I do not have money to throw at activities, hobbies, etc.
3. My Ex has a very poor memory, and does not remember our relationship as having any good points. Apparently as of late she does not believe me to have any good qualities either. This to me feels like twenty years of my life not only was wasted, but any good that I did was erased and/or not appreciated. All of the chore play, servitude, jumping through hoops and she merely says that we had no sexual/intimate life because I never did the things that were necessary for her to feel like I deserved it.
4. Having given my Ex and children everything that they ever asked for and expected, now they cannot understand why their lifestyle should not be equal to what it has always been (strangely, notwithstanding my Ex's assessment that I never did enough, never made enough, wasn't ambitious enough, etc.). My eldest child is in college. I cannot afford to maintain three households, three car payments, etc. (mine, my Ex and younger children's, and my eldest's). See item 1.
5. I no longer trust anyone, and I do not see any likelihood that I will have another relationship, and thus no sex unless I have the means to pay for it. Which, see item 1. Maybe this is for the best. At least at present I do not see that I have anything to offer someone else, and when the family courts are finished with me, it will likely be this way for a good long while. I really don't like spending all of my time alone. There isn't anything wrong with it, and maybe this is what I get, but I sure wished for something more than this when I was young.
So I am left with the clear understanding that twenty years ago, when I made the decision to get married and have children, I established a prison that really could never be escaped. Whether I later found myself alone or not. It has all been a great series of mistakes, predicated on the biggest of mistakes. I can't even fathom what erroneous thinking made me decide to have anything to do with this woman. Low self-esteem is about all I can come up with. The only way for me to have saved myself would have been to never walk down this road in the first place. I don't really think that I am redeemable at this point.
I don't think that further reflection or posts on this will be beneficial to anyone, so I will try to leave it pretty much at that. I do appreciate the forum, and now the rant is over for now ...
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 13, 2017 12:33:43 GMT -5
Wow. Reading your reflections, the powerful emotions behind your words are obvious. The only real person that your post should matter to is you. By that I mean that you have a place to vent and express thoughts you may not have an opportunity to do otherwise. And despite what you think, there are many people that can relate to what you are saying. I only hope that offers you some small measure of comfort.
Now my reflections on your reflections.
First, I want to offer my empathy for whatever that might be worth to you. Along with empathy, I observe that you are beating yourself up a little for things you cannot change and I can relate to that. But what I have also found is that for mental health, its important to be gentle with yourself in the moments when our journey seems most difficult. Maybe that means a little more sleep, a walk in the park, dipping your feet into the water of a lake or river to feel the cold sand or rocks under your feet as you experience the scent of the wilderness around. Maybe its watching a sunset, or the birds above the trees. Or maybe its reaching out to that old friend you have been meaning to call to ask about how she/he is doing without necessarily expecting that they might ask you in return or that they are in a position to hear you out necessarily. Maybe a trip to the public library to read that book on your reading list or to re-visit an old favorite or discover a new one.
I don't know that i agree with you that you do not have anything to offer someone else. Maybe you are thinking in relationship terms which is understandable. But have you given thought to volunteering at an animal shelter or visiting a senior citizens home to offer company or read the newspaper to someone? If there is something that you enjoy doing, see if there are volunteering opportunities for you. Whatever it is you enjoy or are good at, embrace it and see how you can help others with your interest and knowledge. There might be new skills or interesting subjects to pick up on. Depending on where you live, there might be interesting meetups or workshops that are offered at community centers, community colleges, or churches.
For support, you have ILIASM of course, but there might also be some post divorce support groups in your area that might be worth acquainting yourself with. I don't mean to be critical of your situation, but I hope that these ideas inspire some activities that allow you take a little more control of your journey in a direction that is beneficial to you.
All the best.
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Post by WindSister on Sept 13, 2017 12:48:27 GMT -5
Being in the process sucks, it really does. These are your reflections for now, but they will change and evolve as you go along. Is there any part of your life right now that at least feels better than what it was? I am genuinely asking. I remember even in the midst of it and the lonely, I felt that spark of being alive. The brutal honesty and rawness of this new life I was living felt better to me than a stifled, cold, dead marriage. Do you feel any hints of that? At any rate -- I feel for you, it's not easy (understatement). Take care of yourself, be kind to yourself at this time and allow some comforts in your life, too.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 13, 2017 12:54:40 GMT -5
I'm not going to offer sunshine and rainbows. For me, going through my divorce was the darkest time in my life. It is hard to see anything but what you've lost in the middle of it. I spent months crying every few days, wondering what the hell I had done and knowing I really had no other choice. It's a shitty time. The only thing I would encourage you to do is give it some time for perspective to set in. Right now, your problems pretty much fall into 5 main areas: Financial - In most states, the assets / debt are split 50/50. If your wife got 50% and you got 50% and you are spending all your money servicing the debt, you had no assets to begin with. Neither of you got squat. If this isn't the case, you need to get a better attorney ASAP. At least from this point on, you are in control of how fast the debt grows. In my case, just being able to turn off the cash hemorrhage was a huge benefit. If your ex continues to spend 2x what she brings in, then she is going to be fucked pretty soon, but it won't be your problem. As far as day to day expenses, if your oldest is in college, then you've only got a few more years of being "on the hook". Also, circumstances have changed. Your kid's expectations may need to change as well. They may have to take on some loans instead of receiving as generous help as before. Remember, it is not just you that should be helping with these things. If your ex receives support and doesn't help the kids? That's on her, not on you. Psychological / Emotional - If you choose to be a reclusive hermit, you will likely never trust anyone again. If you never trust anyone again, you will never take a chance. If you never take a chance, nothing good can happen. It's a nasty fucking cycle. Counseling can help, but it can only point you to where you need to do the work. In my humble opinion, the most important thing you can do right now is to replace the vacuum created by the divorce by something positive. I understand the financial aspect, but take up jogging, cooking (you're going to need to be good at this), cycling, guitar, etc...something to fill it positively. Because if you don't? It will be filled, and not by something of your choice. And that will most likely be negative. Do SOMETHING. Social Life - You don't have any friends. Welcome to the club. Marriage in general kind of kills pre-marriage friendships, and an SM does this in spades (it's a control thing). If you fill the void above, you will find that you will meet new friends. But to do this, you need to make sure you don't just become a reclusive hermit (see psychological / emotional). After 20 years of marriage, even many of the friends I still had have fled me because now that I'm a fucking alcoholic I don't drink anymore. So I've met some new friends at AA meetings. It isn't exactly the way I envisioned rebooting my social life, but as a recovering drunk, my options are a bit limited. Love Life - If you don't make yourself interesting, you're screwed regardless of the financial aspect. You don't need to be a Casanova or Bill Gates to date. Hell, read some of the Post SM posts here. If you show a true interest in a woman, care about her, and listen to her? That puts you ahead of 90% of the guys in the pack who just want to find a warm hole to stick their cock into. Will you get shot down and rejected a lot? Yup. Welcome to being a guy, I'm sure you remember how it was. I got seriously lucky in finding ballofconfusion , but if you're willing to open yourself up and be vulnerable (see emotional / psychological), you will be OK in time. A good reference would be Mark Manson's book, Models. Work Life - Dude, they call it work for a reason. Most of us have jobs that don't contribute to the betterment of mankind. The way that the government is spending, none of us are going to be able to retire. I would encourage you to look at another book by Tim Ferris called The Four Hour Workweek that will put a different slant on retirement. Right now, I'm actively trying to situate myself to do exactly what he proposes. Another thing...being single makes it much easier to enjoy your retirement the way you want it than living out her dream retirement. I'm going to bet the two weren't really all that in sync anyway. So no sunshine and rainbows. Life is hard, and you're going through one of the hardest life events out there. But remember, you're still in the thick of this shit. Once you get out, if you keep your attitude good and have a positive destination, you will be OK. |
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Post by Caris on Sept 13, 2017 16:35:51 GMT -5
This breaks my heart for you, and actually makes me feel like I have a good deal, even with losing what I had, and still being alone.
I'm not sure I'm the best person to give advice ( and you didn't ask for it) considering my own situation. I can't promise you brighter days ahead, in fact it will probably get harder...at first...but somehow one adapts to the new situation (It took me two, extremely hard, years to even get where I am today) given enough time.
For now, its raw and new, and feels god damn awful. Please feel free to rant all you like. I feel sorry for men who get divorced. They are usually taken to the cleaners, like you. That didn't happen with me. My ex got the better financial deal, but it's usually the other way round. I do understand the men of MGTOW, and their bitterness against women, after losing so much.
We are here for you, and it's a place to vent and share when it all feels like too much. I'm truly sorry. {{Big hug.}}
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 14, 2017 1:16:04 GMT -5
Empathy and courage sent your way !!!
I see a lot of "PROJECTING" in your post F E A R = Future Events Appearing Real. Yes going thru the Big "D" is a lot of pain - for me it was the pain also caused to my children. The dark times shall too pass. Amen. It is true. You will get thru this.
1. Be there for your Children - you will always be their father no matter what and they need your love.
2. Be there for You too. Work on being the best You you can be - a real relatively easy way is to get in really good physical shape. You will feel better about yourself on all levels and I can even be totally bankrupt and get in good shape. Running, exercise, fitness training, cycling, whatever.
3. Be in the Present. Yesterday is but a dream, tomorrow is a vision, today is the gift. Focus on the "Wow in the Now" - one day at a time.
If you keep your shit together and stay healthy and look good and have Positive Vibes inside - things WILL get better in ways you cannot yet even imagine or vision - but try start to try. Power of Positive Thinking really can work. And dont forget the Power of Positive Doing too.
And last but not least - dont forget your Spiritually. Whatever Religion or lack of religion. When I pray it aint to go to Heaven but for EFFECT. I found getting on my knees before the Almighty as I conceive Him can humble me. And know Someone else - even if you just believe in the Universe - is running the show and you can tap into that Power and Rise Up and Beyond. Amen.
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Post by baza on Sept 14, 2017 1:42:18 GMT -5
I am assuming two things here, based on your past stories Brother novembercomingfire - 1 - that the divorce has come out of left field at you 2 - that it has happened real recently Under such circumstances it is of no surprise that you are feeling as low as shark shit. That is a given - short term - of the process. This is the *additional* short term pain (added to the ongoing misery of an ILIASM shithole) the split inflicts on you. I won't mount a rebuttal arguement to you, as what you are feeling is real enough, and perfectly natural for this stage of the journey. It may - or may not - help, but in the longer term scheme of things, this marks the close of your ongoing misery, and marks the potential re-start of your life. Circumstances have delivered you a shot at it. I will bet good money that should you do another "reflection" post in Sep 2018, that a very different story will emerge. Your ILIASM siblings have supplied you with some great suggestions as to how you might work your way through this stage. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Sept 14, 2017 10:58:19 GMT -5
I'm not going to offer sunshine and rainbows. For me, going through my divorce was the darkest time in my life. It is hard to see anything but what you've lost in the middle of it. I spent months crying every few days, wondering what the hell I had done and knowing I really had no other choice. It's a shitty time. The only thing I would encourage you to do is give it some time for perspective to set in. Right now, your problems pretty much fall into 5 main areas: Financial - In most states, the assets / debt are split 50/50. If your wife got 50% and you got 50% and you are spending all your money servicing the debt, you had no assets to begin with. Neither of you got squat. If this isn't the case, you need to get a better attorney ASAP. At least from this point on, you are in control of how fast the debt grows. In my case, just being able to turn off the cash hemorrhage was a huge benefit. If your ex continues to spend 2x what she brings in, then she is going to be fucked pretty soon, but it won't be your problem. As far as day to day expenses, if your oldest is in college, then you've only got a few more years of being "on the hook". Also, circumstances have changed. Your kid's expectations may need to change as well. They may have to take on some loans instead of receiving as generous help as before. Remember, it is not just you that should be helping with these things. If your ex receives support and doesn't help the kids? That's on her, not on you. Psychological / Emotional - If you choose to be a reclusive hermit, you will likely never trust anyone again. If you never trust anyone again, you will never take a chance. If you never take a chance, nothing good can happen. It's a nasty fucking cycle. Counseling can help, but it can only point you to where you need to do the work. In my humble opinion, the most important thing you can do right now is to replace the vacuum created by the divorce by something positive. I understand the financial aspect, but take up jogging, cooking (you're going to need to be good at this), cycling, guitar, etc...something to fill it positively. Because if you don't? It will be filled, and not by something of your choice. And that will most likely be negative. Do SOMETHING. Social Life - You don't have any friends. Welcome to the club. Marriage in general kind of kills pre-marriage friendships, and an SM does this in spades (it's a control thing). If you fill the void above, you will find that you will meet new friends. But to do this, you need to make sure you don't just become a reclusive hermit (see psychological / emotional). After 20 years of marriage, even many of the friends I still had have fled me because now that I'm a fucking alcoholic I don't drink anymore. So I've met some new friends at AA meetings. It isn't exactly the way I envisioned rebooting my social life, but as a recovering drunk, my options are a bit limited. Love Life - If you don't make yourself interesting, you're screwed regardless of the financial aspect. You don't need to be a Casanova or Bill Gates to date. Hell, read some of the Post SM posts here. If you show a true interest in a woman, care about her, and listen to her? That puts you ahead of 90% of the guys in the pack who just want to find a warm hole to stick their cock into. Will you get shot down and rejected a lot? Yup. Welcome to being a guy, I'm sure you remember how it was. I got seriously lucky in finding ballofconfusion , but if you're willing to open yourself up and be vulnerable (see emotional / psychological), you will be OK in time. A good reference would be Mark Manson's book, Models. Work Life - Dude, they call it work for a reason. Most of us have jobs that don't contribute to the betterment of mankind. The way that the government is spending, none of us are going to be able to retire. I would encourage you to look at another book by Tim Ferris called The Four Hour Workweek that will put a different slant on retirement. Right now, I'm actively trying to situate myself to do exactly what he proposes. Another thing...being single makes it much easier to enjoy your retirement the way you want it than living out her dream retirement. I'm going to bet the two weren't really all that in sync anyway. So no sunshine and rainbows. Life is hard, and you're going through one of the hardest life events out there. But remember, you're still in the thick of this shit. Once you get out, if you keep your attitude good and have a positive destination, you will be OK. Right now I am living in a 2 bedroom apartment in a working class neighborhood - my "fortune" has been reduced to a motorcycle and a few boxes of clothes - my apartment is not even 50% furnished. I have to pinch every penny that comes out of my near empty pockets. BUT But but . . . I am having one hell of a Romantic life and Passion rules the day. A year ago, I was in a massive house and zero romance/passion. So does money buy happiness? No money buys stuff and maybe some porn and prostitutes but not Love - The Beatles were and remain right about that!!! |
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Post by Caris on Sept 14, 2017 13:36:35 GMT -5
I'm not going to offer sunshine and rainbows. For me, going through my divorce was the darkest time in my life. It is hard to see anything but what you've lost in the middle of it. I spent months crying every few days, wondering what the hell I had done and knowing I really had no other choice. It's a shitty time. The only thing I would encourage you to do is give it some time for perspective to set in. Right now, your problems pretty much fall into 5 main areas: Financial - In most states, the assets / debt are split 50/50. If your wife got 50% and you got 50% and you are spending all your money servicing the debt, you had no assets to begin with. Neither of you got squat. If this isn't the case, you need to get a better attorney ASAP. At least from this point on, you are in control of how fast the debt grows. In my case, just being able to turn off the cash hemorrhage was a huge benefit. If your ex continues to spend 2x what she brings in, then she is going to be fucked pretty soon, but it won't be your problem. As far as day to day expenses, if your oldest is in college, then you've only got a few more years of being "on the hook". Also, circumstances have changed. Your kid's expectations may need to change as well. They may have to take on some loans instead of receiving as generous help as before. Remember, it is not just you that should be helping with these things. If your ex receives support and doesn't help the kids? That's on her, not on you. Psychological / Emotional - If you choose to be a reclusive hermit, you will likely never trust anyone again. If you never trust anyone again, you will never take a chance. If you never take a chance, nothing good can happen. It's a nasty fucking cycle. Counseling can help, but it can only point you to where you need to do the work. In my humble opinion, the most important thing you can do right now is to replace the vacuum created by the divorce by something positive. I understand the financial aspect, but take up jogging, cooking (you're going to need to be good at this), cycling, guitar, etc...something to fill it positively. Because if you don't? It will be filled, and not by something of your choice. And that will most likely be negative. Do SOMETHING. Social Life - You don't have any friends. Welcome to the club. Marriage in general kind of kills pre-marriage friendships, and an SM does this in spades (it's a control thing). If you fill the void above, you will find that you will meet new friends. But to do this, you need to make sure you don't just become a reclusive hermit (see psychological / emotional). After 20 years of marriage, even many of the friends I still had have fled me because now that I'm a fucking alcoholic I don't drink anymore. So I've met some new friends at AA meetings. It isn't exactly the way I envisioned rebooting my social life, but as a recovering drunk, my options are a bit limited. Love Life - If you don't make yourself interesting, you're screwed regardless of the financial aspect. You don't need to be a Casanova or Bill Gates to date. Hell, read some of the Post SM posts here. If you show a true interest in a woman, care about her, and listen to her? That puts you ahead of 90% of the guys in the pack who just want to find a warm hole to stick their cock into. Will you get shot down and rejected a lot? Yup. Welcome to being a guy, I'm sure you remember how it was. I got seriously lucky in finding ballofconfusion , but if you're willing to open yourself up and be vulnerable (see emotional / psychological), you will be OK in time. A good reference would be Mark Manson's book, Models. Work Life - Dude, they call it work for a reason. Most of us have jobs that don't contribute to the betterment of mankind. The way that the government is spending, none of us are going to be able to retire. I would encourage you to look at another book by Tim Ferris called The Four Hour Workweek that will put a different slant on retirement. Right now, I'm actively trying to situate myself to do exactly what he proposes. Another thing...being single makes it much easier to enjoy your retirement the way you want it than living out her dream retirement. I'm going to bet the two weren't really all that in sync anyway. So no sunshine and rainbows. Life is hard, and you're going through one of the hardest life events out there. But remember, you're still in the thick of this shit. Once you get out, if you keep your attitude good and have a positive destination, you will be OK. Right now I am living in a 2 bedroom apartment in a working class neighborhood - my "fortune" has been reduced to a motorcycle and a few boxes of clothes - my apartment is not even 50% furnished. I have to pinch every penny that comes out of my near empty pockets. BUT But but . . . I am having one hell of a Romantic life and Passion rules the day. A year ago, I was in a massive house and zero romance/passion. So does money buy happiness? No money buys stuff and maybe some porn and prostitutes but not Love - The Beatles were and remain right about that!!! Are you back with your crazy girlfriend? I thought you had broken up with her. |
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