|
|
Post by baza on Aug 23, 2017 0:40:37 GMT -5
Here's two different stories to have a look at.
#1 -
Dear ILIASMers,
I am 42 years old, two kids.
My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually avoidant.
I have tried everything I can think of to get my spouse interested but nothing works.
What can I do ?
Everything is great bar the sex.
#2 -
Dear ILIASMers,
I am 42 years old, two kids.
My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually demanding.
I've tried everything I can think of to hose my spouse down but my spouse persists incessantly.
What can I do ?
Everything is great bar the sex.
Now I would imagine that if the stories were posted in an asexual group, the sympathies would tend toward story #2.
And if the stories were posted in this group, the sympathies would tend toward story #1.
But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ?
Both stories express unhappiness with the level of sex in the dynamic.
Both stories take a position that their spouse ought to adjust to their view.
Both stories tell of a huge mis-match.
"If" you were giving these people suggestions, or advice, would your advice be materially different to the refuser spouse than it would be to the refused spouse ?
And if so , on what basis ?
|
|
|
|
Post by brian on Aug 23, 2017 7:58:42 GMT -5
For me, not much different. Your spouse is unhappy with your views on sexual intimacy. You can: - Concede, which is likely to breed resentment in you and, in the end, result in a very unsatisfying interaction for both of you. THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what either of you really want. This path will likely ultimately result in the dissolution of the marriage by your own doing.
- Hold your ground, which is likely to breed resentment in your spouse and, in the end, bleed over into many other areas of the relationship. This path also will most likely result in the dissolution of the marriage, just by your spouse's doing.
- Work together to find a middle ground. This path has the best chance of working, but it is WORK, and it may not result in a workable solution. If one of you wants no sex while the other wants it at least once a day, it is doubtful you will ever find a middle ground that both of you can both be okay with.
- Open the marriage so that the spouse who doesn't want to have sex doesn't have to and the one that does can find it elsewhere. This can lead in all sorts of directions and involve all kinds of emotions from feelings of abandonment and resentment to having the high libido spouse inadvertently falling in love (or having a child) outside of the marriage. Although some couples, I have been told, have made this work, I believe the risk of the marriage unwinding is quite high.
What I wouldn't suggest is to embark on a long fact-finding mission about why your spouse is the way that they are... or why they changed. The ONLY time that I would suggest this is that if both of you have chosen option #3 above and are honestly willing to embark on a JOINT mission of self-discovery that will most likely bare your souls to each other... and you may not like what you see -- either in your spouse or in yourself. At that point, it's your and your spouse's reaction to that knowledge that will define where the relationship leads.
|
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Aug 23, 2017 8:01:04 GMT -5
Good question.
There is a difference here. marriage is an agreement to have sex. That's where the zero-avoidant, ends things.
The sexually demanding needs a lot more "why?" answered. This gets into styles of loving, along with the question "is it love, or just sex?"
You can read about the 6 "types of love" (Romantic,friendship,game-playing,needy,practical,and altruistic).
You will have difficulty in communicating and understanding each others view points because thier basic beliefs about what love was were not compatible.
|
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Aug 23, 2017 8:21:57 GMT -5
If the avoidant spouse does not want to have sex, they should not have sex, but in doing so they relinquish their right to be a sole supplier of sex to their spouse.
My advice would be for them to open up the marriage, and set some ground rules. Odds are that the avoidant one would balk at the idea, in which case the only ground rules for the other is to not get caught.
|
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Aug 23, 2017 8:40:02 GMT -5
To the refuser I would say:
Lay your cards on the table, be honest and tell your spouse that you don't like and/ or want sex with them.
Allow them to seek sex elsewhere. If you can't provide your spouse with a basic biological need and you will deny the spouse seeking it elsewhere then you are a selfish pig and you have no right holding your spouse hostage.
Yes this might blow up the marriage and the family unit but your marriage is already a lie and dishonest because you are avoidant and not honest.
To the refused I would say:
Lay your cards on the table, be honest and advocate for yourself.
Your spouse is being selfish and it's time for you to be selfish for yourself.
Let them know that celibacy is no longer an option and they can either start fucking You enthusiastically in a meaningful intimate manner, which may mean seeing a therapist, counselor or sex therapist OR you will either be fucking someone else or seek a divorce.
An avoidant non answer will result in the refused's choice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 9:45:12 GMT -5
Here's two different stories to have a look at. #1 - Dear ILIASMers, I am 42 years old, two kids. My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually avoidant. I have tried everything I can think of to get my spouse interested but nothing works. What can I do ? Everything is great bar the sex. #2 - Dear ILIASMers, I am 42 years old, two kids. My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually demanding. I've tried everything I can think of to hose my spouse down but my spouse persists incessantly. What can I do ? Everything is great bar the sex. Now I would imagine that if the stories were posted in an asexual group, the sympathies would tend toward story #2. And if the stories were posted in this group, the sympathies would tend toward story #1. But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ? Both stories express unhappiness with the level of sex in the dynamic. Both stories take a position that their spouse ought to adjust to their view. Both stories tell of a huge mis-match. "If" you were giving these people suggestions, or advice, would your advice be materially different to the refuser spouse than it would be to the refused spouse ? And if so , on what basis ? I would tell them both the exact same thing, but I would have more sympathy for the refused spouse than the refuser. This is because sex is the most basic part of marriage. Without it, the relationship is not a marriage. This is what I would say, "If this issue is not resolved, the marriage will not last. You need to choose whether you want a happy marriage, a miserable marriage, or no marriage, it is up to you." |
|
|
|
Post by csl on Aug 23, 2017 12:09:09 GMT -5
I admit to coming at this from a different perspective, and a different outlook. Yes, I am a Christian, and so accept as valid, even prescriptive, a viewpoint outside of these two people.
But I also have a view that doesn't require a religious support, and that is, when two people get married, a third entity is created: a marriage, and by inference, a sex life. From this, I've formulated a mantra that says, "It's not his sex life, it's not her sex life, it's Y'ALLs' sex life. Hence neither of you get to make an imposition and fashion the sexlife in your image.
If your solution is to issue a final ukase, then you forfeit the right to be in the marriage. Work it out.
As Mammy Yokum is famous for saying, "I has spoken."
|
|
|
|
Post by iceman on Aug 23, 2017 13:34:37 GMT -5
I think the situations are variations of the same theme - sexual unhappiness. However, I think the sexually avoidant spouse is on shakier grounds in a marriage. As greatcoatsl observed, the very act of marriage means there will be sex. It's part of the implicit, if not explicit, agreement and to withhold sex is breaking the marital vows. Once that happens all bets are off.
My advice would be you both need to be yourself and not do anything you don't want to do. Since you are far apart in your views about sex you need to try to reach a mutually satisfying compromise. And part of that satisfaction comes from doing or not doing something for the sake of your spouse's happiness. If you can't come together on this you need to look long and hard at your fundamental compatibility as married partners. Sometimes the positions are just too far apart or too firmly entrenched to make compromise achievable. At that point you need to explore options, one of which is divorce. It's not reasonable to expect either spouse to live in a state of perpetual unhappiness and for the sake of happiness and mental health for both of you the best thing may be to split.
|
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Aug 23, 2017 13:45:12 GMT -5
What's a definition for "extremely sexual demanding?" Does it have a number per year?
Zero per year, is a number. That is not a sex life with a marriage.
Then there's the actual sex act it self. We had a poster on here who made it sound like the spouse had no emotion. Like he treated her as if she was an inflatable doll.
How many couples end up ,only after marriage ,finding out that there partner is extremely sexual demanding? And again what's it based on?
|
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Aug 23, 2017 14:10:50 GMT -5
I'm going to infer, based on a commonly held number of three times a week being normal healthy sexual activity, that "extremely" would be double that. That does not seem extreme to some of us, but I think it is a fair number.
I could also figure that with the average time of sex being thirteen minutes, "extremely" would want to go more than twenty-six minutes. Again, that does not seem extreme for some of us, but, we are dealing with the rest of the world and most of us here probably fall on the HL extreme side of the spectrum.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 16:26:41 GMT -5
My advice to both would be about the same. If you find yourselves waaay apart on this issue, you owe it to the relationship (and yourself) to find causes, solutions and compromise. You have to do this diligently and early in the "problem" (whichever side of it you're on doesn't matter). But, of course, we are all here on this forum which means even if we had the relationship EQ to find causes, then the mismatch gap remained and no compromise was possible. Then, if no compromise is possible or forthcoming, both parties lose site of the causes and solutions and resentment, et.al. take over.
They are both reasonable positions, dependent upon the motivations and whether either party pulled a bait and switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by brian on Aug 23, 2017 17:16:26 GMT -5
I'm going to infer, based on a commonly held number of three times a week being normal healthy sexual activity, that "extremely" would be double that. That does not seem extreme to some of us, but I think it is a fair number. I could also figure that with the average time of sex being thirteen minutes, "extremely" would want to go more than twenty-six minutes. Again, that does not seem extreme for some of us, but, we are dealing with the rest of the world and most of us here probably fall on the HL extreme side of the spectrum. Okay... getting a bit off topic, but if the LL spouse requires 45 min of massaging and then decides she is too relaxed and tired to do anything else, does that count towards your extreme of 26 minutes? And if you repeat that 6 times a week, is that being extremely sexual? |
|
|
|
Post by brian on Aug 23, 2017 17:19:40 GMT -5
Here's two different stories to have a look at. #1 - Dear ILIASMers, I am 42 years old, two kids. My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually avoidant. I have tried everything I can think of to get my spouse interested but nothing works. What can I do ? Everything is great bar the sex. #2 - Dear ILIASMers, I am 42 years old, two kids. My problem is that my spouse is extremely sexually demanding. I've tried everything I can think of to hose my spouse down but my spouse persists incessantly. What can I do ? Everything is great bar the sex. Now I would imagine that if the stories were posted in an asexual group, the sympathies would tend toward story #2. And if the stories were posted in this group, the sympathies would tend toward story #1. But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ? Both stories express unhappiness with the level of sex in the dynamic. Both stories take a position that their spouse ought to adjust to their view. Both stories tell of a huge mis-match. "If" you were giving these people suggestions, or advice, would your advice be materially different to the refuser spouse than it would be to the refused spouse ? And if so , on what basis ? "Everything is great bar the sex." ... "But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ?" Just a crazy thought from here in hypothetical fun land: Add these details: By day, everything is flowers and walks in the park. Night after night, #1 sexually assaults #2. Does # 2 still think "everything is great bar the sex?" This should get interesting... THIS is most of the reason why I don't even want to have sex with my avoidant spouse anymore. She makes me feel like I'm practically assaulting her as she "tolerates" having sex with me. No thanks. Not interested. But I'm also not interested in being celibate. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Aug 23, 2017 17:22:01 GMT -5
ROFL, brian. I'm assuming that 13 minutes three times a week was actual Intercourse. I hope I am not wrong, because my needs are already off the chart before thinking that includes foreplay. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on Aug 23, 2017 17:29:55 GMT -5
"Everything is great bar the sex." ... "But really, apart from their different individual perspectives, are there any actual significant differences in the two stories ?" Just a crazy thought from here in hypothetical fun land: Add these details: By day, everything is flowers and walks in the park. Night after night, #1 sexually assaults #2. Does # 2 still think "everything is great bar the sex?" This should get interesting... THIS is most of the reason why I don't even want to have sex with my avoidant spouse anymore. She makes me feel like I'm practically assaulting her as she "tolerates" having sex with me. No thanks. Not interested. But I'm also not interested in being celibate. Brian, if she is that way, you can end your celibacy even if she doesn't. There are guys I work with who's wives have stopped putting out. I know what bars they score at, I know about the VIP lounges at the strip clubs, I know about the adult classified ads, and I know I could get laid pretty quick if that was all I was looking for. It's not. I'm going to argue that I'm still tied for the title of the least successful philanderer on earth, but, only because I am selective. Choose your path. If divorce is imminent, you might want to be careful not to muddy the waters. |
|
