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Post by iceman on Aug 21, 2017 16:46:54 GMT -5
"My ex initiated the divorce and while I was heartbroken at the time I've come to see that it was the right thing to do. We certainly had no sexual problems but there were fundamental problems in our marriage that couldn't be fixed. I have no doubt that she has changed her mind about our marriage." A few questions: - I'd be curious to hear what these "fundamental problems" are. If it were that you had different expectation of what you want in life, then outsourcing with you ex might make sense since this problem wouldn't be applicable. - If the problem was more of a fundamental personality problem, it could blow up in your face. Basically, is she emotionally stable? Are you? - Also, has she moved on? Is she also outsourcing? Or would this only be you outsourcing? If just you outsourcing, she does have a potential club held over your head with your current wife if things go south. - If you did start an outsourcing relationship along FWB lines, do you really think with past history, you could keep the emotions out of it? If so, you are a stronger man than I. You say that your daughter would probably be happy knowing you were together just having sex. I'm not sure how old your daughter is, but I would think that the response might be more confusion rather than joy if she found out. It is also possible she may look down on you because you're cheating on your current wife. On the other hand, I don't know the people involved. I do know the more personalities you add to the mix, the more volatile the mix can become. This is especially true if you are outsourcing and planning on staying with your current wife. Shit could get messy quick, and like it or not, your wife and your ex will probably run into each other from time to time. If it were me and I were going to outsource, I'd pick someone without any contacts to your family. There are lots of ladies out there that don't have the same drama potential. I never outsourced in my marriage, so this is just my 2 cents for whatever they are worth... Emotionally stable is a relative concept. If I'm honest I think she probably more stable than me. Not that I think I drastically unstable, just that my ex has worked through her isssues and has come out on the other side intact and knows what she wants. I went into what the cause of our problems were in my reply to bbgirl below. She is not outsourcing. She's not involved with anybody. She confessed to me that she had not had sex, or anything close to sex since we were married. I believe her and it didn't surprise me actually. She doesn't want any kind of relationship that might come with sex and she's not the type to go for casual or one night stand type sex. I'm safe. She doesn't have to worry about me starting to have feelings for her and want something more. As much as I like her, and love her but not in love with her there won't be more. She fundamentally hurt me when we divorced and I can forgive her to a point there will always be a part of me that will not allow myself to put me in the position where I might be hurt by her again. We can have sex. We can go on dates and spend time together but that's as far as it will go. At least that's how I feel now. I guess there's always the possibility that one or both of us start wanting more but I'm not seeing it happening. As for her and the possibility that she could use our relationship as some kind of weapon against me, I have no worries. I trust her completely that she will keep this discrete no matter what happens, and I mean no matter what. I know that sounds a little odd but it's how I feel. i do wonder how it will be from now on when my W and ex are together. They've always gotten along or at least seem to. I think we could act as if nothing is going in but I wonder if there will some vibe given off that only my wife will feel and start to wonder what's going on between us. If she does find out it may make things ugly for a divorce. She may go for blood. My daughter is 28 yo with a child of her own and on her second marriage so she isn't a babe in the woods when it comes to relationships. She'll be surprised but okay with it. Sounds like I'm talking myself into it .... |
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Post by baza on Aug 21, 2017 17:36:36 GMT -5
Back in March this year you mentioned your missus was tracking your movements and whereabouts.
So you might conclude from that that this thing with your ex missus carries a higher than usual risk of discovery with it, so the usual safeguards (legal advice, exit strategy) apply.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 21, 2017 20:42:33 GMT -5
I was going to say not to do it on principle.
Sounds like a decent setup except for the fact that your married, she's your exwife, who also knows your current wife. Sounds like a ticking time bomb if you ask me.
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Post by iceman on Aug 22, 2017 7:59:45 GMT -5
Back in March this year you mentioned your missus was tracking your movements and whereabouts. So you might conclude from that that this thing with your ex missus carries a higher than usual risk of discovery with it, so the usual safeguards (legal advice, exit strategy) apply. Good advice as always. I know it seems like it's more risky. I would think the same thing if i were you. However, given my relationship with my ex, her personality and temperament, and the geographical separation involved I'm actually seeing this as less risky. Hopefully I'm not deluding myself. Nothing is certain. There's always risk and I need to decide if this is acceptable risk. |
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Post by cagedadventurer on Aug 22, 2017 8:23:45 GMT -5
iceman,
It is encouraging to hear your W wanted and or still wants you to be good friends with your ex for the sake of your daughter. This is not so abnormal. However, a refuser most always has insecurities knowing they are ignoring the spouse. So and of the 3 scenarios are possible/probable:
1- She is naïve and thinks your marriage is strong and as good as it is supposed to be and you are content therefore she remains confident and sincere in her wishes for a good relationship with the ex
2 - She suspects that if you got back together, it would not be so bad. She would be free and you your needs met by someone other than her is a relief. And a D due to a reconciliation would not make her look so rejected.
3- If you're not extremely careful here (maintain status quo), she knows she is setting you up for a fall and will use it against you - and she likely would.
While I love the fact you got some great sex, unfortunately, the ex will escalate the frequency, you will not be able to resist and you will get busted. The ex, while trustworthy today will get sloppy with a VM, email or text.
Personally, I like the idea of just moving out due to chronic refusals, legally separate, etc. so that decisions all appear to be that you are taking care of yourself and closing one door before opening another and you are not just bouncing to where the attention (sex) is coming from.
BTW - we have only seen a sexless marriage change with threats of leaving or in some rare cases a W awakening to the importance of it and really wanting to remain married.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 22, 2017 8:45:27 GMT -5
i do wonder how it will be from now on when my W and ex are together. They've always gotten along or at least seem to. I think we could act as if nothing is going in but I wonder if there will some vibe given off that only my wife will feel and start to wonder what's going on between us. If she does find out it may make things ugly for a divorce. She may go for blood. This sounds mean to me and I am not being "judgey," I've done stuff and lived and learned. Having an affair is one thing, making the two women stand face-to-face, interact, is another. And, holy cow -- yeah... she will go for blood when she finds out. (can't say I blame her, ouch, that would really really hurt, but of course I am not condoning going for blood either). You can disregard this if you want, obviously --- it's not what you want to hear. I just know (from experience, so again, I am not "judging") -- I know that doing mean things change you. Strips you of your inner glow, shine and confidence. Can actually lead to depression, anxiety. Can mess with you in mysterious ways. Life is NOT black and white, there are a million shades of gray, so I am not trying to get righteous here. My affair at the end of my first marriage with a married man didn't "feel" wrong to me though one could argue that was wrong and mean, too. He was in a SM, I was in a SM and we both were working on getting out but he was waiting for his kids to graduate. If I had to interact with his wife regularly though? That would change it for me. (for me) I did that once -- I am just saying, it doesn't feel good. I was involved with a married man when I was in my 20s, I was single at the time (he was actually Captain of our company - army national guards - so a lot of things were wrong with that set up, I was a sergeant). His wife and kids came to all the family days and I felt horrible as I smiled at her and them and talked with her. I KNOW that changed me, chipped away at my "goodness" and caused all kinds of issues I had to spend years dealing with. A part of me still waits for Karma to catch up with me on that one and is no doubt what adds to my relationship insecurity issues, jealousy. Maybe there are shades of gray I can't comprehend here that only you know, so you will do what you do, but I am sharing this dark side of me anyway for a pause to really consider all those outcomes, I just wish my 20-something self had done that. I am debating if I even post this, honestly, it's not something I share too much. I know this group is relatively safe. It's still pretty dark, I think and I don't want to sabotage your thread with MY story. Just wanted to prove I wasn't being "judgey" -- but I still think it's extra risky for you with them interacting and also kind of mean. Sorry!! |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Aug 22, 2017 8:46:46 GMT -5
Like shamwow I'm curious to know what the fundamental issues were too. The fundamental problem was that she didn't want to be married at all. Not to me. Not to anybody. We married very young and she didn't really know who she was or what she wanted from life. I guess I didn't either. She slowly came to realization that being married wasn't how she wanted to live. It wasn't so much an indictment of me as an indictment of marriage. Once I got over the shock and hurt I came to realize that given her views we really had no business being married. I grudingly admired her for it. It couldn't have been easy for her. Nobody understood why she was doing it. We had what appeared to be a perfect marriage. It took a lot of strength for her to go through with it but she never backed away from what she thought was right. I think we remained friendly not only because we always put our daughter first but because we really still liked each other in a platonic way. The ironic part part is that I've come full circle to her position. I don't want to be married. It doesn't mean that I don't want an intimate relationship. Just not marriage. That may be where we differ. She doesn't want any kind of intimate relationship. She wants the sex without worrying that it will develop into something more serious. I think she regards me as safe in that regard and I'm okay with that. It will never be more than that for me. - given this response, which sounds very accepting and at peace with both the Ex and the current marriage - I have to vote that you go for it with the Ex as FWB. Protect yourself from being found out by W and protect yourself from any romanticizing about the FWB (as ALL of us givers need to do with any FWB). But go for it. Eke out as much happiness as you can because we could all get hit by a bus tomorrow. Karma and luck have no consideration for our "college plans" or other agenda items. Grab life by the....well, wherever you can grab - and enjoy the parts you get to experience. Savor the hell out of that! And please - get out from the legal trappings as quickly as you can so that you have the freedom to seek a relationship that may have both parts: intimacy AND sex. (Still seeking here and the path of a seeker is challenging - but SO worth it!) |
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Post by shamwow on Aug 22, 2017 9:26:46 GMT -5
"My ex initiated the divorce and while I was heartbroken at the time I've come to see that it was the right thing to do. We certainly had no sexual problems but there were fundamental problems in our marriage that couldn't be fixed. I have no doubt that she has changed her mind about our marriage." A few questions: - I'd be curious to hear what these "fundamental problems" are. If it were that you had different expectation of what you want in life, then outsourcing with you ex might make sense since this problem wouldn't be applicable. - If the problem was more of a fundamental personality problem, it could blow up in your face. Basically, is she emotionally stable? Are you? - Also, has she moved on? Is she also outsourcing? Or would this only be you outsourcing? If just you outsourcing, she does have a potential club held over your head with your current wife if things go south. - If you did start an outsourcing relationship along FWB lines, do you really think with past history, you could keep the emotions out of it? If so, you are a stronger man than I. You say that your daughter would probably be happy knowing you were together just having sex. I'm not sure how old your daughter is, but I would think that the response might be more confusion rather than joy if she found out. It is also possible she may look down on you because you're cheating on your current wife. On the other hand, I don't know the people involved. I do know the more personalities you add to the mix, the more volatile the mix can become. This is especially true if you are outsourcing and planning on staying with your current wife. Shit could get messy quick, and like it or not, your wife and your ex will probably run into each other from time to time. If it were me and I were going to outsource, I'd pick someone without any contacts to your family. There are lots of ladies out there that don't have the same drama potential. I never outsourced in my marriage, so this is just my 2 cents for whatever they are worth... Emotionally stable is a relative concept. If I'm honest I think she probably more stable than me. Not that I think I drastically unstable, just that my ex has worked through her isssues and has come out on the other side intact and knows what she wants. I went into what the cause of our problems were in my reply to bbgirl below. She is not outsourcing. She's not involved with anybody. She confessed to me that she had not had sex, or anything close to sex since we were married. I believe her and it didn't surprise me actually. She doesn't want any kind of relationship that might come with sex and she's not the type to go for casual or one night stand type sex. I'm safe. She doesn't have to worry about me starting to have feelings for her and want something more. As much as I like her, and love her but not in love with her there won't be more. She fundamentally hurt me when we divorced and I can forgive her to a point there will always be a part of me that will not allow myself to put me in the position where I might be hurt by her again. We can have sex. We can go on dates and spend time together but that's as far as it will go. At least that's how I feel now. I guess there's always the possibility that one or both of us start wanting more but I'm not seeing it happening. As for her and the possibility that she could use our relationship as some kind of weapon against me, I have no worries. I trust her completely that she will keep this discrete no matter what happens, and I mean no matter what. I know that sounds a little odd but it's how I feel. i do wonder how it will be from now on when my W and ex are together. They've always gotten along or at least seem to. I think we could act as if nothing is going in but I wonder if there will some vibe given off that only my wife will feel and start to wonder what's going on between us. If she does find out it may make things ugly for a divorce. She may go for blood. My daughter is 28 yo with a child of her own and on her second marriage so she isn't a babe in the woods when it comes to relationships. She'll be surprised but okay with it. Sounds like I'm talking myself into it .... It sounds like you're going into this with your eyes open. In the end, if you believe it is right for you and the reward is greater than the risk? Go for it. My only concern was that you were jumping into something exclusively off the physical feelings. Always a dangerous position to take regardless of who you are with. Doubly so with someone you have "history" with. |
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Aug 22, 2017 11:51:51 GMT -5
I dont know you but I think it bears repeating. These women know each other. Unless they both know what is going on and are cool with it. This is a ticking time bomb.
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Post by iceman on Aug 22, 2017 16:29:58 GMT -5
i do wonder how it will be from now on when my W and ex are together. They've always gotten along or at least seem to. I think we could act as if nothing is going in but I wonder if there will some vibe given off that only my wife will feel and start to wonder what's going on between us. If she does find out it may make things ugly for a divorce. She may go for blood. This sounds mean to me and I am not being "judgey," I've done stuff and lived and learned. Having an affair is one thing, making the two women stand face-to-face, interact, is another. And, holy cow -- yeah... she will go for blood when she finds out. (can't say I blame her, ouch, that would really really hurt, but of course I am not condoning going for blood either). You can disregard this if you want, obviously --- it's not what you want to hear. I just know (from experience, so again, I am not "judging") -- I know that doing mean things change you. Strips you of your inner glow, shine and confidence. Can actually lead to depression, anxiety. Can mess with you in mysterious ways. Life is NOT black and white, there are a million shades of gray, so I am not trying to get righteous here. My affair at the end of my first marriage with a married man didn't "feel" wrong to me though one could argue that was wrong and mean, too. He was in a SM, I was in a SM and we both were working on getting out but he was waiting for his kids to graduate. If I had to interact with his wife regularly though? That would change it for me. (for me) I did that once -- I am just saying, it doesn't feel good. I was involved with a married man when I was in my 20s, I was single at the time (he was actually Captain of our company - army national guards - so a lot of things were wrong with that set up, I was a sergeant). His wife and kids came to all the family days and I felt horrible as I smiled at her and them and talked with her. I KNOW that changed me, chipped away at my "goodness" and caused all kinds of issues I had to spend years dealing with. A part of me still waits for Karma to catch up with me on that one and is no doubt what adds to my relationship insecurity issues, jealousy. Maybe there are shades of gray I can't comprehend here that only you know, so you will do what you do, but I am sharing this dark side of me anyway for a pause to really consider all those outcomes, I just wish my 20-something self had done that. I am debating if I even post this, honestly, it's not something I share too much. I know this group is relatively safe. It's still pretty dark, I think and I don't want to sabotage your thread with MY story. Just wanted to prove I wasn't being "judgey" -- but I still think it's extra risky for you with them interacting and also kind of mean. Sorry!! No worries. I appreciate your candor. The chance that my wife might find out and be especially hurt and betrayed because it was my ex is who I was fooling around with bothers me more than anything. I don't know if it's enough to stop us from carrying on but it definitely bothers me. |
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 24, 2017 1:16:05 GMT -5
iceman, a thought that's been bouncing around in my head... if this ever came to light, it would certainly be the end of your marriage, sooner or later. Non-recoverable. Pretending for a moment that some affairs are better than others... with some anonymous woman, the issue with your wife would be that you betrayed the marriage. If that hatchet gets buried, life goes on and maybe the marriage improves, as some stories are told. Now, imagine this woman is someone she can never escape. Worse than sleeping with her best friend or her boss - those are people she can escape, however difficult. No, this would be like having an affair with her sister - someone that you and she will be connected to for the rest of your lives. There is no recovery from that. Every family event with your daughter and her future family would cause your wife and ex to cross paths. Any time you visited your daughter, it would stir up conflict and distrust. Your marriage could never heal from this without abandoning contact with your daughter. If you didn't have a daughter with your ex, there'd be a prospect of going no-contact with her if the shit hit the fan. But that's not really an option, so you could be forced to choose between your marriage and your daughter. Don't do it. ETA: And don't forget that there are myriad ways the cat can get out of the bag - even if she's not psycho and you don't screw up. Innocent connections like somebody tagging you in a Facebook photo that shows up on the wrong persons feed. Your wife and ex are too closely connected; it's almost certain to happen.
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