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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 1, 2017 15:36:01 GMT -5
Let me begin by saying I am so happy, that my daughters trust and respect me enough to want to speak with me about their "personal" problems. One of these is my wife's "standards "of clothes.
Things like, shorts that have to be,"finger tip length". I get told things like " You see those girls shorts? Their butt is NOT hanging out! Nor showing at all. Those are long enough. But mom wants them all the way down to the knee."
That makes me think. " your mom doesn't drop you off at school, your mom doesn't go to the beach, your mom doesn't go to youth activities, your mom is clueless to what the huge majority of parents and kids wear and find acceptable."
No crop tops, (which shows your stomach, when you raise your hands up all the way) Nothing too low cut. My daughters like a crop top. They give a much less baggy fit, and come to belt level during normal wear. My daughters tell me " All the girls wear them and the school has no problem with them". The stores where loaded with shelves and racks of them.
The same for low cut on the sides, under the sleeves. No showing of the bra. No lace, nothing the least bit see through.
Some of these are school policy.. I understand school policy. I respect school policy, we abide by it. I see these teens wearing layers. Then comes what they wear, out side of school. So much of this is acceptable and the norm living at the beach in Florida.
It also comes down to a control issue. Something I have not been allowed to have an opinion or say in for years.
As you can imagine, anything that shows off your daughters body in the least way, and you accept it, well....than I am just a pervert! This is the attitude I face when trying to convince my wife "that we are not Amish", and that, "not everyone wants to dress down and look like "one of the guys" like you do. Also, not everyone has a " a low self body image" like you do. It's just not right to force all that on "our" family.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 1, 2017 19:18:50 GMT -5
greatcoastal , I'm old school, so take this for what it's worth... I don't necessarily agree with you - more about the yardstick you're using, irrespective of the specific issue. Social standards are always in a downward slide, trying to push the envelope. Using society / availability / everyone-else-is-doing-it as your barometer will always lead to the lowest common denominator. I'd suggest that "acceptable" is the more conservative of a) your personal values, and b) local social values. I'm one of those parents that would be more conservative than society allows; it sounds like you may not be, and that's your choice, but it doesn't mean your wife is wrong for being more conservative than society. Rather than bash her perspective, there is perhaps a learning moment here with your daughters around personal values and developing an opinion independent of the socially-convenient group-think. E.g., in NYC it's legal for women to be topless anywhere it's legal for a man to. I'd guess that's not something you'd be OK with your daughters doing. I ran into this constantly with one of my sons - a brilliant, talented individual who liked to hang out with stoners and adopted their look. He insisted that the burden was on others to accept him for who he was inside - that's a nice, PC perspective, but reality is that opportunities will/won't present themselves based on people's first impressions. Bottom line, how they present themselves goes way beyond impressing their immediate circle of friends, to people they've never met who will interact with them based on a first impression. Dave Chappelle's "police officer" standup skit comes to mind. FWIW, DC p.s. - I don't envy you the challenges and fatherly stress of rearing girls... ETA: link to Chappelle's skit:
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Post by baza on Aug 1, 2017 20:22:29 GMT -5
Brother itme makes a hugely relevant point. Refusers end up behaving their way into irrelevancy. They play "the big card" of withdrawing sex. Where the hell can you go from there in respect to withdrawing something even more precious ? They've played the big card already, you have survived that, so where is there for them to up the ante further ? |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 1, 2017 21:48:40 GMT -5
Brother itme makes a hugely relevant point. Refusers end up behaving their way into irrelevancy. They play "the big card" of withdrawing sex. Where the hell can you go from there in respect to withdrawing something even more precious ? They've played the big card already, you have survived that, so where is there for them to up the ante further ? That's a very good point! Than there is the control that is always taking place and being executed over the rest of the family. Everything from what you can wear, how much money you can spend, what you can watch, what you can listen too, who your friends are, having to get to know the teens friends parents, extensively, Computer use, cell phone use, etc...... Way , way, to much control, helicopter mom, authoritarian, syndrome. There's a time to let go, to give teens a voice, to give them respect, to let them make decisions. Like the clothes. My daughters show me many things that other girls are wearing that are way to low cut, way to short, and they tell me, " I'm not going to walk around looking like that". While their mother goes far to much the other way. Including her own, men's style clothes. To go even deeper into it. my daughters wear a size "0" waist and a size "00" waist. My wife wears a...... (and has for most of her life)(we won't go there!) Who knows what hidden issues that brings out in her logic? |
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 1, 2017 22:11:42 GMT -5
This attitude of " my child is not going to......(fill in the blanks)
Um.... Hello? It's not just YOUR CHILD. (side note:they are not children for ever)
There's two parents in this family.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 22:47:07 GMT -5
GC, I have to come down on the other side of this and say that I'm proud of your wife for teaching modest dress to your girls and for her adherence to school dress code, in spite of others' lack thereof.
I, too, have a teenage daughter who often tries to purchase and/or wear things that aren't allowed, either by the school or by her father and me (modest clothing is one thing H and I agree 100% on). She'll often say, "but other girls wear it and the school doesn't say anything."
My response is twofold:
1) I don't care what other girls do.
And 2) Rules are made for a reason: to be followed.
I take serious issue with parents who teach their kids that they are the exception to the rule or that the world should bend to them and not vice versa. Society doesn't function well when kids are taught they don't need to play by the rules. You can spot those kids and parents a mile away. And usually, no one enjoys being around them for long.
Perhaps your wife's weight is the reason for her rules, but perhaps not. I'm not overweight. In fact, daughter and I even share some clothing items. Just as I don't dress in overly revealing clothing, nor would I allow her to do so. In fact, I try to set an example for her by not showing too much cleavage or wearing short skirts. That doesn't make me Amish. Quite the contrary. But I'm trying to teach my daughter that a woman's purpose in life isn't to look "sexy" all day long. There's a time and a place for cleavage and legs.
Just my .02! Take it for what it's worth. I understand your wife is very controlling and I'm sorry you dealt with that for so long. But she may also have a point on this one.
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Post by WindSister on Aug 2, 2017 9:46:42 GMT -5
Bottom line, you have different parenting styles, therefore, sadly, "co-parenting" will continue to be difficult. I wouldn't worry about what her issues may or may not be regarding size of clothing, etc, it's just that you two will have to come up with a way to co-parent effectively. I have no idea how to do that as I don't have kids. I would say it would start with communication, though, just you and her. You are in a "business deal" now of raising your kids together, yet apart. You need guidelines, boundaries, expectations, protocols. Or not, I suppose, but then I think not having something in place may lead to frustration on the parts of all.
But, again, I am just an outsider with no kids of her own so what do I know? I am sorry, I am sure it's very frustrating.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 7:08:44 GMT -5
My daughter is 13, already 5 foot 7 and wears a 32c bra size. My instinct tells me to lock her up till she is 25. I know that would push her away. I let her have some leeway in non school clothes but I dont want to over sexualize her either. Its a fine line.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 6, 2017 12:40:17 GMT -5
I have a 16 year old girl (almost 17) who dresses pretty much like the rest of the girls she hangs out with. I can tell this by looking at her Instagram account.
My problem is less about how she dresses in public, but about posting pictures of this dress online. In public, most young men are not yet brave enough at 16 to "make a move", but in private? Staring at a picture of her dressed scantily? That's where fantasy goes wild. I can't imagine when I was 16 year's old being able to see all the girls at school in bikinis online. It's a whole new world.
So I'm torn between my parents who somehow think I can magically stop her from dressing that way and her mom who buys the clothes for her. Perhaps I should explain to her that if she posts scanty pictures online, she should expect boys to jerk off to them. A bit abrupt, but to the point.
Seeing as I only have custody every 1st, 3rd, 5th weekend (Thursday-Monday), if I disagree with the clothes she wears, I have little recourse. Sure, I can stand in the surf screaming "stop" as the waves crash around me.
It seems that my best recourse is not to "lay down the law" but to explain that if she doesn't want boys to treat her like a piece of meat then don't dress like one.
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