laura
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Age Range: 31-35
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Post by laura on Jun 28, 2017 15:36:36 GMT -5
I first posted on here some time back. I haven’t posted much since but have given a great deal of consideration to all the input I got after my first post. Reading about other people’s experiences on here for a month has moved me forward more than years of counseling. thistooshallpass suggested that I make a list of all the good and bad “trees” in the deep dark forrest of my marriage. I think an exhaustive list would be a bit long to post here, but I have thought it through and that was a very helpful exercise. I will post more on that soon I hope. I thought I’d have more time to work through this stuff with H out of town, but actually summer school and caring for a farm and horses and moving/downsizing said farm all on my own has been pretty all consuming. For now, here is an insight I have had. There are a lot of problems in the marriage and the lack of sex is only a symptom. I actually did not initially identify the lack of sex as a main issue in the relationship. It bothered me a lot, but the more obvious emotional abuse seemed worse and actually bad enough to make me averse to sex with H anyway. Until recently I pretty much bought all the excuses about sex too (too tired, xyz hurts, I have work to do, the weather here is too humid, etc.) Unfortunately, becoming a counter refuser really clarified the problem. When I stopped pursuing him, he stopped lashing out like a cornered animal. Focusing on the sexlesness, even though it is only a symptom, has helped me get focused. Intimacy aversion and emotional/behavioral problems can be very hard to put your finger on. Maybe when he was screaming and raging at me I really did do something bad enough to deserve it, I don't know. Some people are like human FOG machines. But I can count how many times we’ve had sex. I know that part is not my fault. I can put a number on it and when I doubt my perceptions I can still know this one mathematical fact, sex once or twice or three times a year is not normal or acceptable. That number is a rock to cling to. Anyway, he is out of town, so I finally talked to a lawyer yesterday. If it were not for this forum I would not have taken that step and I’m very glad that I did. I felt physically ill with guilt sitting in the waiting room, but I left much lighter. It looks like I’ll have to give up a lot including the land and horses that I love, but I can get out. I don’t feel ready to actually file yet, but next time I insist on confronting our issues, I’ll be prepared to follow through.
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Post by hopingforachange on Jun 28, 2017 15:51:06 GMT -5
Glad to see you have time to think. Many of us initially post and have to take a break to think thru what the members here are able to shine a light on.
Welcome back, while none of us are happy to be here, it can be our happy place.
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Post by twotimesone on Jun 28, 2017 15:54:00 GMT -5
It really depends on what you want to do. It sounds like that you can stay in your SM but giving up on the land and horse or give it up altogether. Can't have cake and eat it too I guess. And it sounds like by you going to a lawyer, you want to get out.
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Post by hopingforachange on Jun 28, 2017 15:54:05 GMT -5
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laura
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Age Range: 31-35
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Post by laura on Jun 28, 2017 16:12:15 GMT -5
Yep, I'm in the club. I have to say though, I don't see much of a divide between the experience of older and younger people here except that the older folks have mostly been suffering for longer. Whether you are 30 or 70, you still wonder if someone else will want you, if it is too late, if it is worth splitting assets, what is best for the kids, etc. I do think some young folks or those not in SMs, are less surprised about sex dropping off with age. When I finally talked to my counselor about the sexlessness she said, "What did you expect? He's in his 40s, he's slowing down." I've fucked enough 40 somethings to know that's not the trend, but I guess some people think that way. I'm not with that counsellor anymore.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jun 28, 2017 17:28:34 GMT -5
laura Courageous post. Yes I can relate. I had to pretty much chose between staying and keeping the "stuff" or freedom and a lot less stuff. I too felt this Monster Guilt like never before. One thing I picked up on an "Aversion to Intimacy" . . . very interesting. As you said the lack of sex is absolutely a symptom in most cases - certainly mine. And deeper still the "LACK of INTIMACY" is in my mind was the heart of what was missing and sex too just a part of this. So your H had an aversion to intimacy? That speaks volumes. I too was a Counter Refuser and suffered much emotional abuse . . . I too was not so innocent either.
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 28, 2017 17:59:00 GMT -5
Yep, I'm in the club. I have to say though, I don't see much of a divide between the experience of older and younger people here except that the older folks have mostly been suffering for longer. Whether you are 30 or 70, you still wonder if someone else will want you, if it is too late, if it is worth splitting assets, what is best for the kids, etc. I do think some young folks or those not in SMs, are less surprised about sex dropping off with age. When I finally talked to my counselor about the sexlessness she said, "What did you expect? He's in his 40s, he's slowing down." I've fucked enough 40 somethings to know that's not the trend, but I guess some people think that way. I'm not with that counsellor anymore. Slowing down. Oh. My grandfather did not start slowing down until his early eighties. He asked his urologist about his new problem, and the doctor pointed out that as people aged, their refractory times would increase, then asked him when he had first noticed it. My grandfather replied, "about 2:30, this morning."
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laura
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Age Range: 31-35
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Post by laura on Jun 28, 2017 18:37:45 GMT -5
Yep, I'm in the club. I have to say though, I don't see much of a divide between the experience of older and younger people here except that the older folks have mostly been suffering for longer. Whether you are 30 or 70, you still wonder if someone else will want you, if it is too late, if it is worth splitting assets, what is best for the kids, etc. I do think some young folks or those not in SMs, are less surprised about sex dropping off with age. When I finally talked to my counselor about the sexlessness she said, "What did you expect? He's in his 40s, he's slowing down." I've fucked enough 40 somethings to know that's not the trend, but I guess some people think that way. I'm not with that counsellor anymore. Slowing down. Oh. My grandfather did not start slowing down until his early eighties. He asked his urologist about his new problem, and the doctor pointed out that as people aged, their refractory times would increase, then asked him when he had first noticed it. My grandfather replied, "about 2:30, this morning." Haha! Yeah, I flat out told the therapist that she was badly misinformed on that point.
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Post by beachguy on Jun 28, 2017 18:39:20 GMT -5
The big difference between you (34) and me (60)... I know your future (if you don't end your sad excuse of a marriage) but you are too young to grasp it. And this is true of all 30-something's here, it's not directed at you. And I had a very similar wedding experience where it all went to shit the day after the wedding. We have a lot in common, including an intimacy averse and abusive spouse.
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 28, 2017 18:58:12 GMT -5
The big difference between you (34) and me (60)... I know your future (if you don't end your sad excuse of a marriage) but you are too young to grasp it. And this is true of all 30-something's here, it's not directed at you. And I had a very similar wedding experience where it all went to shit the day after the wedding. We have a lot in common, including an intimacy averse and abusive spouse. Dittos
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Post by solodriver on Jun 28, 2017 20:08:31 GMT -5
Yep, I'm in the club. I have to say though, I don't see much of a divide between the experience of older and younger people here except that the older folks have mostly been suffering for longer. Whether you are 30 or 70, you still wonder if someone else will want you, if it is too late, if it is worth splitting assets, what is best for the kids, etc. I do think some young folks or those not in SMs, are less surprised about sex dropping off with age. When I finally talked to my counselor about the sexlessness she said, "What did you expect? He's in his 40s, he's slowing down." I've fucked enough 40 somethings to know that's not the trend, but I guess some people think that way. I'm not with that counsellor anymore. You're very right laura,
There are both men (including myself) and women who are older in the 50's and 60's who have the sex drive of much younger folks.
I'm 57 and I have the sex drive of a 20 year old. I get told by my wife to quit acting like a horny teenager!
Not me. Not now, not ever!
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Post by baza on Jun 28, 2017 20:41:25 GMT -5
Seeing a lawyer was a smart move Sister lauraIf you are to make a fully informed choice about your future, as much info as you can get is required.
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Post by beachguy on Jun 29, 2017 2:42:25 GMT -5
There are a lot of problems in the marriage and the lack of sex is only a symptom. Maybe when he was screaming and raging at me I really did do something bad enough to deserve it, I don't know. I don’t feel ready to actually file yet, but next time I insist on confronting our issues, I’ll be prepared to follow through. The idea that lack of sex is always a symptom really bothers me. I know it is true in some marriages. For example, a marriage that had a healthy sex life for years then suddenly dries up. But that is not your deal (nor was it mine). To say that it is a symptom suggests there is some other underlying cause. And since you are the refused, that implies that YOU are the cause of the sexlessness. Do you agree with that? But what if he's really just a closeted gay? Now, is the sexlessness a symptom or a primary problem? Similarly he could be asexual or otherwise inherently sexually dysfunctional in some other way. And if that is the case, it is the sexlessness that drives much of the marital dysfunction, especially over the long term (something I, and others here, after 30 years of SM, understand in a way I implied earlier you possibly cannot after only 4 years, because I've lived the long term marital death spiral). Just to point out that this symptom/cause thing is not nearly as clear cut as often stated. Because when SM is stated as a symptom it assumes that both partners are fundamentally sexually "normal" and functional. It is highly unlikely that you did something on your wedding day that made you suddenly un-fuckable. A lot of us here had wedding day reversals. That can be the result of many different sexual dysfunctions, where basically in your case he (barely) fucked his way to a ring on his finger, and then left you high and dry. He probably intended all along to enforce celibacy on you. After all, he was around 40 when he married you. He should have had his sexuality figured out by then. He doesn't get the "young and stupid" pass. There are obviously other very serious problems in your marriage, particularly the emotional abuse you have suffered. Leading you to question if you are the bad guy when he goes psycho on you. But what is really happening there is that he is manipulating and intimidating you into the precise wife he wants. Including a wife that will never ask for sex, ever again. And he has succeeded brilliantly. At your expense. If he is as abusive as you say, then it is very unlikely you will ever successfully confront your issues. Just trying to talk to him about sex turns him into a raging psycho. What do you think will happen when you then try to turn the convo to your intent to divorce him? Have you thought that part through? If he is nearly as bad as you say, you may need to follow through via a process server while you are physically safely ensconced somewhere else. Just food for thought. Some of your statements suggest that you have not fully wrapped your arms around your abusive situation and all the implications. You may not be nearly out of that FOG yet. Both the implications of staying, if that is what you decide, and the implications of trying to leave. There are some good resources for abused partners on the internet. It's an easy Google. If you have not done that yet, it is an important area of research for you. For many of us, our marriage was a struggle of commitment verses happiness. Pick one. And only one. The commitment thing was important to me too when I was your age. Now I realize that that was foolish. At least commitment for the sake of commitment in the face of an obviously highly dysfunctional marriage. And when you are faced with enforced celibacy the day after your wedding, you have a very highly dysfunctional marriage. I would urge you to think very carefully about the idea of commitment just for the sake of commitment. You don't have to sacrifice your life to become a bitter, angry, shriveled up old woman that honored her damned commitment. There are two kinds of people that say that sex is not important in a marriage... The first are getting laid regularly. They may not think food is important either because they have a surplus of it in their lives. They've never known true hunger or true sexual frustration. The second are shriveled up old ladies (and men) justifying their miserable celibate lives.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 8:36:36 GMT -5
Laura, do it. Dont look back.
So many of us here are in such shitty marriages and we stay. Who the fuck cares why we stay. We are miserable and we stay. Damn masochists we are.
Over that horizon there is a real life.
This forum could, or should, be named "I live in a shitty marriage"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 14:27:01 GMT -5
I first posted on here some time back. I haven’t posted much since but have given a great deal of consideration to all the input I got after my first post. Reading about other people’s experiences on here for a month has moved me forward more than years of counseling. thistooshallpass suggested that I make a list of all the good and bad “trees” in the deep dark forrest of my marriage. I think an exhaustive list would be a bit long to post here, but I have thought it through and that was a very helpful exercise. I will post more on that soon I hope. I thought I’d have more time to work through this stuff with H out of town, but actually summer school and caring for a farm and horses and moving/downsizing said farm all on my own has been pretty all consuming. For now, here is an insight I have had. There are a lot of problems in the marriage and the lack of sex is only a symptom. I actually did not initially identify the lack of sex as a main issue in the relationship. It bothered me a lot, but the more obvious emotional abuse seemed worse and actually bad enough to make me averse to sex with H anyway. Until recently I pretty much bought all the excuses about sex too (too tired, xyz hurts, I have work to do, the weather here is too humid, etc.) Unfortunately, becoming a counter refuser really clarified the problem. When I stopped pursuing him, he stopped lashing out like a cornered animal. Focusing on the sexlesness, even though it is only a symptom, has helped me get focused. Intimacy aversion and emotional/behavioral problems can be very hard to put your finger on. Maybe when he was screaming and raging at me I really did do something bad enough to deserve it, I don't know. Some people are like human FOG machines. But I can count how many times we’ve had sex. I know that part is not my fault. I can put a number on it and when I doubt my perceptions I can still know this one mathematical fact, sex once or twice or three times a year is not normal or acceptable. That number is a rock to cling to. Anyway, he is out of town, so I finally talked to a lawyer yesterday. If it were not for this forum I would not have taken that step and I’m very glad that I did. I felt physically ill with guilt sitting in the waiting room, but I left much lighter. It looks like I’ll have to give up a lot including the land and horses that I love, but I can get out. I don’t feel ready to actually file yet, but next time I insist on confronting our issues, I’ll be prepared to follow through. "Maybe when he was screaming and raging at me I really did do something bad enough to deserve it, I don't know. " No you didn't. Reasonable healthy people don't rage at their family if something goes wrong. People are human, make mistakes and are fallible. The person who promised to love and cherish you in front of witnesses has no justification, none, for screaming at you. That's 100% on him, not you. I understand your situation very well, i've seen close family consumed by this kind of nonsense and I also understand your life. I have a professional job but I live on a farm with livestock and taking care of animals and a big place is stressful. But...even when stressful I've never raged at my family because the cattle got out (although I've certainly raged at the cows).
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