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Post by neonspace on Jun 27, 2017 22:43:10 GMT -5
The past couple of weeks my wife has sensed something was bothering me and tried to talk a few times, but I put it off knowing it was going to be a long stressful conversation and it wasn't the right time. The kids are out of town this week so I decided I would talk to her on Monday and I had prepared what I wanted to say about how she rejects and disrespects me on financial issues, parenting styles, and compromise, etc. When I came home she had on lingerie. I told her we needed to talk and laid it all out. She was blindsided and had felt everything was ok. She was more upset that I had ruined her reset and recharge week and says I made her feel terrible. She said she is the same she has always been and that I was being over sensitive. I explained after 25 years of feeling mistreated I had reached my breaking point and I was tired of it. She claimed I had mistreated her too and she just overlooked my shortcomings and that this is what normal couples go through. She also said she did respect me and did nice things for me but I'm just focusing on the negative.
I'm starting to second guess myself. I'm so confused. Maybe I am just focusing on the negative.
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Post by baza on Jun 27, 2017 22:47:40 GMT -5
And, mebbe there are a veritable mountain of negatives to focus on Brother neonspace . Hard to say, there's not a lot of back story in your posts so far.
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Post by twotimesone on Jun 27, 2017 22:59:48 GMT -5
The question is why does she wearing a lingerie. Gees, my W don't even own one and complains if I see her in her underwear.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 28, 2017 0:37:24 GMT -5
neonspace, if you decided to take a job in sales but rarely closed deals, would she still be thankful when you occasionally bring home a small check? Especially if she wasn't part of the decision and wouldn't have agreed with the arrangement? If she was unhappy about it, would she be "focusing on the negative"? Or would it be a prudent discussion about something that's material to the marriage? Because it's not important to them, refusers love to downplay the importance of intimacy and suggest that you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm sure they wouldn't feel the same about something they considered important.
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Post by beachguy on Jun 28, 2017 3:03:00 GMT -5
Other than that one little negative, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jun 28, 2017 4:57:57 GMT -5
I have to say good job on having the talk and standing your ground. In my opinion the next steps are to find out what your wife's concerns are with you, and decide together if both of you can agree to work on these things. If you both feel like these are things that you can overcome I highly recommend that you get some outside help to coordinate and assist you with how to do that. A third party (counselor) will help keep things on track and diffuse disagreements before they blow up.
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Post by csl on Jun 28, 2017 7:07:35 GMT -5
The past couple of weeks my wife has sensed something was bothering me and tried to talk a few times, but I put it off knowing it was going to be a long stressful conversation and it wasn't the right time. The kids are out of town this week so I decided I would talk to her on Monday and I had prepared what I wanted to say about how she rejects and disrespects me on financial issues, parenting styles, and compromise, etc. When I came home she had on lingerie. I told her we needed to talk and laid it all out. She was blindsided and had felt everything was ok. She was more upset that I had ruined her reset and recharge week and says I made her feel terrible. She said she is the same she has always been and that I was being over sensitive. I explained after 25 years of feeling mistreated I had reached my breaking point and I was tired of it. She claimed I had mistreated her too and she just overlooked my shortcomings and that this is what normal couples go through. She also said she did respect me and did nice things for me but I'm just focusing on the negative. I'm starting to second guess myself. I'm so confused. Maybe I am just focusing on the negative. Show her the report card I made up to accompany this post. It will help her see that sex is th one thing men can't compartmentalize.
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Post by Dan on Jun 28, 2017 8:00:05 GMT -5
One beef I have is her objection "you are focusing on the negative"; if there are things that need to be FIXED, you HAVE to discuss the problems. You HAVE to lay bare what is NOT working. Now, you also have to be fair: meaning a) be accurate, b) be not mean. If needed, consider a good marriage therapist to assist with the communication. But you DO need to be allowed to get the "problems" (aka "negative stuff") on the table. Plus sometimes the "little negative stuff" is just evidence of the bigger problems, and by talking about the little stuff you UNCOVER the bigger or "root cause" problems. So, this is part of the process. If she doesn't like the process, she can propose a different one. But "not talking about it" is not working for you. If that is the only option she gives you... you can tell her you will be voting with your feet: making plans to leave the marriage. She said she is the same she has always been and that I was being over sensitive. The charge of being "over sensitive" annoys me. ( Rhapsodee has written about this.) To discuss your emotions with the person who is supposed to be your closest emotional confidant in the world -- your spouse -- why is it EVER ok to lob "you are being over sensitive"? It is possible that she has "always been the same"; it is possible that YOU have changed. Maybe you are finally giving yourself the courage to expect more companionship in your marriage. Maybe you have always wanted more, but finally have the courage to try to discuss it with her. In any case, you ARE changing the status quo in the marriage... and it was one she professes to have been comfortable with, as evidenced by this: She was blindsided and had felt everything was ok. Sounds like she has not been sensitive enough to your feelings of sadness and distance that has been building up. You can suggest "maybe people of such different level of sensitivities should not be married to each other".
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Post by beachguy on Jun 28, 2017 8:46:42 GMT -5
On the subject of "over-sensitivity", it is clear that your wife has no interest in partnered sex, whatsoever, at least with you. If she has no interest in partnered sex with anyone, then she is asexual, according to the strict definition that asexuals have developed. If it is just you she has no interest in, that doesn't help at all or change anything. She was upset because her occasional reset did not work, where before it shut you up for a month or two or 12, whatever the case may be. She is not upset that you don't want her, she is upset because her long term scheme to keep you reset did not work and she may sense that gig is up.
Rather than acknowledge that you two have totally incompatible sexuality, she disrespects you by laying off your sexual and intimate and emotional needs as "too sensitive". There is no more brutal blow-off. But at least she is being honest with you, you don't need to bother with any why chasing. Most spouses here are not nearly as honest.
You have very clear choices, as outlined here over and over. Based on the combined knowledge of this forum and it's predecessor, and certainly your story, those choices do not include changing her attitude (making her want you that way).
If you believe you are "just focusing on the negative" then you too are justifying the sexless, intimacy-less and emotionally vacant life you have. You are accepting your roommate status, for ever. You are accepting your wife's terms and conditions of your marriage, terms most people won't accept. And accepting it until death do you apart (and statistically you will probably go first so that is not a likely solution for you either).
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 28, 2017 9:04:15 GMT -5
She was making excuses and deflecting the blame. Bottom line she either wants to make you happy or she doesn't and she hasn't for 25 years. She's had a good run but all good things come to an end. I would have another "talk". Tell her to list 3 things she's unhappy about with you, be specific, and what she needs. You do the same, obviously at the top of your list is the lack of sex, passion, intimacy, and connection. State specifically what you need and how often. You guys can either meet each other's needs or you can't.
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Post by beachguy on Jun 28, 2017 9:22:41 GMT -5
After thinking about this, it boils down to one thing: neonspace , in desperation your wife is throwing down the "statute of limitations card". She is saying that although you may have been miserable for the entire 25 years of your marriage, you have abdicated any right to happiness. I wish you luck working through that. I know what I would do, because I went through somewhat the same thing (although not as blatantly). And yes, I left. I decided there was more to life than suffering increasing misery to keep my wife happy. A wife that cared not a whit for my happiness. A wife that never, ever acknowledged my unhappiness. Also a very liberal application of the "guilt card", as you so carefully outlined in your Guilt/Pity thread. Personally I'm very cynical of all that, partly because I also had the (sex) abuse card thrown down at me too, with never any specifics at all. But even if true it makes you no less miserable. It might, though, give you an excuse to remain miserable, which may possibly be exactly what she wants. Just... a .... possibility.
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Post by cagedadventurer on Jun 28, 2017 10:59:57 GMT -5
The past couple of weeks my wife has sensed something was bothering me and tried to talk a few times, but I put it off knowing it was going to be a long stressful conversation and it wasn't the right time. The kids are out of town this week so I decided I would talk to her on Monday and I had prepared what I wanted to say about how she rejects and disrespects me on financial issues, parenting styles, and compromise, etc. When I came home she had on lingerie. I told her we needed to talk and laid it all out. She was blindsided and had felt everything was ok. She was more upset that I had ruined her reset and recharge week and says I made her feel terrible. She said she is the same she has always been and that I was being over sensitive. I explained after 25 years of feeling mistreated I had reached my breaking point and I was tired of it. She claimed I had mistreated her too and she just overlooked my shortcomings and that this is what normal couples go through. She also said she did respect me and did nice things for me but I'm just focusing on the negative. I'm starting to second guess myself. I'm so confused. Maybe I am just focusing on the negative. neonairspace, I will suggest that you are NOT just focusing on the negative. And to not second guess yourself. 25 years of.... she rejects and disrespects me on financial issues, parenting styles, and compromise, etc. was not and is not your imagination. My wife had and has tried to parent like her harsh mother (whom she cannot have us live too near). The controlling of the kids' every move to early baths (keeps them reigned in), to making me feel like an idiot for trying to get involved on their care, activities, etc. She never wants to go anywhere (except to eat out), never plans any trips, never helps with writing checks, mocks my personal preferences as ridiculous, etc. So I think I hear what you are saying brother. The only time my W used lingerie, was when she knew I was on my way out. Man I am weak! Isn't there a song, "sex is my drug...."? My W could say the exact same words right now "that she did respect me and did nice things for me...." Yes, I and I am sure you do as well, fully recognize when she shows good intentions and appreciate it. But so many years of the other $#%@ hardens you so that your appreciation is tempered because the trust level is actually so low. I think that EVEN IF she screwed your brains out daily, you still would feel this way because of so many compromises having been made where you have forgotten who you really are or were. I think I am empathizing more and more with victims of Stockholm syndrome because we somehow get so sucked into their control and controlled world. So YES, we do second guess ourselves. But we are not wrong. It's the reality of the decades long mind-f%*&.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 28, 2017 11:07:32 GMT -5
Others have said it better ,but I'm going to say it my way. This has DARVO written all over it! Good for you with the lingerie! Reminds me of turning my head to her ceremonial pecks. "Reject and disrespect", you got it! My friend! Once you offered resistance, demanded respect, set a boundary, had an opinion, a voice, what did she do? Did you recieve compassion? A listening ear? Any compromise? Was there any giving? NONE!! Instead she immediately started with DARVO. "You make me feel terrible, you are always making me feel this way, you are always over sensitive". Typical. No facts, no quotes, no examples, no solutions, no hope, no encouragement, and definitely, never any admittance that any of this could possibly be her fault! Just broad sweeping, emotion driven generalizations. More bait thrown at you, more reversal, victim and you are the offender. "She claimed I had mistreated her too!" Typical. Wide sweeping generalizations. Deny, and avoid any facts, or problems. Play victim, by reversing making you the offender. All controlling tactics to mislead you , and fill your mind with doubt. The same tactics that have been successful for the last 20 some years. ( I know this all to well) "well you do it too" I started receiving that from my controller. I ignore it, and realize it's a diversion. I use the word "STOP". I then answer my questions for her. I make bold factual, truthful, statements. She clenches her lip, gets ticked, and takes a "whatever" approach. Does it solve anything? Yes. It lets her know her world of control is crumbling, and she needs to find another victim. "She respects and does nice things for you". According to who? All as little as possible, crumbs to keep you wanting more. Always moving the goal post. Remove the mask and truth shows they are temporary, fleeting, and have a hidden agenda. Her 1% of giving must be answered with a 100% return. There will be times in a marriage when 100% giving is needed and expected ( financial hardships, physical ailments, family deaths, etc..) those are temporary. There has to be a balance. ( even a rescuer will eventually have to be rescued) Do NOT second guess yourself, do NOT be confused. Yes you are doing more than just "focusing on the negative". You are calling her out, and standing up for yourself. You are setting boundaries. Like dealing with a child. She is immediately testing those boundaries, looking for any week links in the chain. it's time for consequences, again, like disciplining a child. No parent enjoys this either. However it does give a glorious pay back. Your freedom to be yourself with someone else who will desire, and respect you. shrink4men.com/2011/01/19/presto-change-o-darvo-deny-attack-and-reverse-victim-and-offender/shrink4men.com/2012/04/05/putting-women-on-pedestals-dont-do-it/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 11:08:34 GMT -5
The past couple of weeks my wife has sensed something was bothering me and tried to talk a few times, but I put it off knowing it was going to be a long stressful conversation and it wasn't the right time. The kids are out of town this week so I decided I would talk to her on Monday and I had prepared what I wanted to say about how she rejects and disrespects me on financial issues, parenting styles, and compromise, etc. When I came home she had on lingerie. I told her we needed to talk and laid it all out. She was blindsided and had felt everything was ok. She was more upset that I had ruined her reset and recharge week and says I made her feel terrible. She said she is the same she has always been and that I was being over sensitive. I explained after 25 years of feeling mistreated I had reached my breaking point and I was tired of it. She claimed I had mistreated her too and she just overlooked my shortcomings and that this is what normal couples go through. She also said she did respect me and did nice things for me but I'm just focusing on the negative. I'm starting to second guess myself. I'm so confused. Maybe I am just focusing on the negative. 1. She was NOT blindsided, she was just upset that her tactic of trying to distract you with sex did not work. I bet it worked before. 2. You did not MAKE her feel terrible, she just hates to hear anything negative about herself. 3. When she accused you of being oversensitive, she was trying to deflect and attack in hopes that you would stop discussing her flaws. 4. When she said she had overlooked your shortcomings, she was trying to tell you that she is better than you. 5. She may do nice things for you, but that is irrelevant to her behavior. 6. She may believe that she respects you subjectively, but without objective evidence of her respect, her belief doesn't matter. Sounds like she knew the talk was coming and was angry that her plan of distraction did not work, so she went to Plan B. which was attacking you. Frankly, if she was fulfilling you sexually, you would probably be overlooking a lot of her flaws as well.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 28, 2017 14:49:04 GMT -5
Sounds like she knew the talk was coming and was angry that her plan of distraction did not work, so she went to Plan B. which was attacking you. Frankly, if she was fulfilling you sexually, you would probably be overlooking a lot of her flaws as well. If it was possible to "like" a post more than once, this one would get a handful! You nailed it on all counts.
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