Open Marriage: Specific, practical advice on what works
Jun 16, 2017 11:55:05 GMT -5
Dan, unmatched, and 7 more like this
Post by Apocrypha on Jun 16, 2017 11:55:05 GMT -5
Consensual Non-monogamy (CNM).
People often make statements about "the kind of people" most likely to succeed in a consensual non-monogamous arrangement. People inside and outside CNM arrangements make vague claims about how "strong" the marriage is or needs to be. What does "strong" mean, though?
I prefer to be more specific. My observations are based my own experiences, my observations of my CNM partners, the CNM community in my metropolitan city, and in particular at a swing club located in my city that my neighbours owned, which I visited many times and discussed with my neighbours, who were part owners in it.
I noticed a difference between what I termed "old guard" swingers and the general CNM community. Old guard swingers yearned for the "old days" when it was much easier to get people to say "yes" to a sexual encounter and then to disengage casually. This isn't so much the culture now - and it's often talked about within the forums among this group (around age 55-60+) - that the current crop of CNM folks is unrealistically picky.
The owners of the sex club disclosed that it was effectively a place to MEET people who were open to the CNM idea within a sexually-charged atmosphere. Most of the actual sex occurred off-premises, and the sex that did occur on premises was often between or among parties that were already known to each other. In that sense, the club resembled more of a house party that gets a bit out of hand - in which there was a further option to go to if it went beyond making out. That's the most apt comparison - except that there were STRINGENT protocols and norms about touching and consent, with many people charged with the responsibility of ensuring that those protocols were enforced.
I'm going to speak more generally about the CNM groups, rather than the specific old guard swinger group. I saw and met a wide range of people from all socioeconomic backgrounds. Kindergarten teachers, bankers, white collar professionals, firefighters, students, soccermoms, judges… the whole thing. Many of them are new or trying it out. At the clubs, there were a few single women who were looking for a booty call in an environment that they felt safer in than if they were alone. At least half of the people there at any given night were talking in a self-aware manner in amazement that they were there at all, noting genuinely that they didn't think they would ever do anything like this. They weren't the "sort". Rather than having hearts of ice, I found them usually to share generously about themselves and their feelings - to be expressive people who get beyond small talk quickly. Fast intimacy in all respects.While certainly - I did see people who fit my stereotype of "the sort" - for the most part - the people looked and acted much like the people in my neighborhood.
My observations within the community of what seemed to work:
The most successful CNM couples went beyond "tolerating" or "compartmentalizing" the activity, but rather enjoyed it as something they did together. It makes sense over the long term. If this activity costs you, it's eventually going to leave you empty. So I'd say it would work well if you AND your partner could TRULY feel joy, love, and sexual excitement in a situation in which you were aware that your partner might be having the best sex of their life, and that your facilitation of that makes you feel included and appreciated –even excited. Whether it's done together or apart - I'd liken it to being a bit like bunjee jumping together, or perhaps deep wilderness camping, or mountain climbing, or scuba diving. The "togetherness" aspect of successful couples were those who treated the activity as something they did together. The sharing of their experiences, the support of each other in seeking those experiences and identifying together as belonging to an "in-group" as partners who had each others back was satisfying to them.
It didn't mean they participated directly together in the same room (though many do), but rather, like husband/wife marathon runners, that they shared a hobby, and treated it like that.
To understand of the mindset of extreme trust BETWEEN a CNM couple, consider the vulnerability of the situation. In consenting to the activity to take a partner with your primary partner’s knowledge, that primary partner is agreeing to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for managing and expressing his or her own feelings and limits, so as not to allow a situation to go beyond his or her capacity for tolerance. It’s a vulnerable position to have sex with someone other than one’s primary partner, and if that partner says “yes” when they really mean no – they are putting their relationship at risk – a consequence that both will suffer.
With that in mind, the sink or swim skills are AUTHENTICITY and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for expressing and adhering to limits and boundaries. I think that’s likely what’s meant when people speak vaguely about “strength” in a relationship. Both parties in the relationship need to have or develop those skills, or they don’t get to climb the mountain.
So, applying that mindset to something non-sexual…When I was scuba diving with some more experienced thrill-seeking divers – they expressed an interest in doing a more technical and risky dive (as opposed to me, who likes to look at pretty coral and fish), I was easily able to overcome my fear of of disappointing others by announcing that I would not do that dive. Mrs Apocrypha, who is generally passive aggressive and who tends to be a more “fuck it, whatever” kind of person, refused to voice her discomfort with the technicality of the dive. We chose a different destination within our comfort level as a group and had a satisfying dive.
Later on, when that difference in mindset was applied to the open relationship between Mrs. Apocrypha and I, her pattern over the long haul indicated a tendency to agree or even propose situations she was not able to handle, for which I would bear the consequence. Rather than take joy and dive in, she reverted to her coping mechanism of dissociation and avoidance, trying harder and harder to “not care”, and choosing to “keep her mouth shut”, or outwardly support the activity and the benefits she got from it, when she knew she ended up hating me for my participation. The feeling on my side of it was one of betrayal and being set up by her (in some cases literally), to enact a scenario that she knew would cause disconnection and dissociation.
She had a martyr complex and the enactment of this scenario was used to feed this internal narrative. Her own (more frequent) dalliances, were then justified as kind of a "fuck you" to the marriage and to me, over the long run in increasing amounts.
In contrast, the long term successful couples took a mutual interest and recognized and appreciated each other’s roles – viewing their support of each other’s exploration and sexual variety as the ultimate gift, and the ultimate in trust. Like presenting a partner with an ultimate, lavish gift and taking pleasure in their enjoyment of it. With that in mind, I'd say a generous mindset is an asset. That means being the kind of person who takes pleasure in anticipating a partner's joy and pleasure in receiving a significant gift.
Moreover, by seeing how others view their partners, they were reminded of the novelty, passion, and objective attractiveness of their partners, and were also likely to “step up” and “lean in” to invest in their primary relationship AT LEAST to an equal level as a paramour (which is considerably more than most of the dysfunctional scenarios presented on ILIASM), with a clear understanding of the likely result if they didn’t.
This is why dysfunctional couples tend to drop out of the CNM scene. Even in a sexless marriage, it’s just not an enjoyable experience to go from the tearful wonder of having sex with someone who wants to have sex with you – and to then immediately return home to a scalding acid bath from your primary partner who endorsed it and who is now treating you as if YOU are the asshole. THAT is where you live and sleep 95% of the time. THAT is your family. A few hours of sexual joy every few weeks is NOT worth the price you must pay afterwards from a partner who doesn’t support it. I’m not talking about what’s ethically right or what you *should* do. I’m talking about the benefit vs cost to you in getting a partner who is averse to your sexuality altogether, AND who doesn’t take responsibility to treat that situation authentically, to agree to such a scenario.
And that's why dysfunctional marriages that have gotten to a point of sexual aversion - do NOT tend to do well in open relationships.
People often make statements about "the kind of people" most likely to succeed in a consensual non-monogamous arrangement. People inside and outside CNM arrangements make vague claims about how "strong" the marriage is or needs to be. What does "strong" mean, though?
I prefer to be more specific. My observations are based my own experiences, my observations of my CNM partners, the CNM community in my metropolitan city, and in particular at a swing club located in my city that my neighbours owned, which I visited many times and discussed with my neighbours, who were part owners in it.
I noticed a difference between what I termed "old guard" swingers and the general CNM community. Old guard swingers yearned for the "old days" when it was much easier to get people to say "yes" to a sexual encounter and then to disengage casually. This isn't so much the culture now - and it's often talked about within the forums among this group (around age 55-60+) - that the current crop of CNM folks is unrealistically picky.
The owners of the sex club disclosed that it was effectively a place to MEET people who were open to the CNM idea within a sexually-charged atmosphere. Most of the actual sex occurred off-premises, and the sex that did occur on premises was often between or among parties that were already known to each other. In that sense, the club resembled more of a house party that gets a bit out of hand - in which there was a further option to go to if it went beyond making out. That's the most apt comparison - except that there were STRINGENT protocols and norms about touching and consent, with many people charged with the responsibility of ensuring that those protocols were enforced.
I'm going to speak more generally about the CNM groups, rather than the specific old guard swinger group. I saw and met a wide range of people from all socioeconomic backgrounds. Kindergarten teachers, bankers, white collar professionals, firefighters, students, soccermoms, judges… the whole thing. Many of them are new or trying it out. At the clubs, there were a few single women who were looking for a booty call in an environment that they felt safer in than if they were alone. At least half of the people there at any given night were talking in a self-aware manner in amazement that they were there at all, noting genuinely that they didn't think they would ever do anything like this. They weren't the "sort". Rather than having hearts of ice, I found them usually to share generously about themselves and their feelings - to be expressive people who get beyond small talk quickly. Fast intimacy in all respects.While certainly - I did see people who fit my stereotype of "the sort" - for the most part - the people looked and acted much like the people in my neighborhood.
My observations within the community of what seemed to work:
The most successful CNM couples went beyond "tolerating" or "compartmentalizing" the activity, but rather enjoyed it as something they did together. It makes sense over the long term. If this activity costs you, it's eventually going to leave you empty. So I'd say it would work well if you AND your partner could TRULY feel joy, love, and sexual excitement in a situation in which you were aware that your partner might be having the best sex of their life, and that your facilitation of that makes you feel included and appreciated –even excited. Whether it's done together or apart - I'd liken it to being a bit like bunjee jumping together, or perhaps deep wilderness camping, or mountain climbing, or scuba diving. The "togetherness" aspect of successful couples were those who treated the activity as something they did together. The sharing of their experiences, the support of each other in seeking those experiences and identifying together as belonging to an "in-group" as partners who had each others back was satisfying to them.
It didn't mean they participated directly together in the same room (though many do), but rather, like husband/wife marathon runners, that they shared a hobby, and treated it like that.
To understand of the mindset of extreme trust BETWEEN a CNM couple, consider the vulnerability of the situation. In consenting to the activity to take a partner with your primary partner’s knowledge, that primary partner is agreeing to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for managing and expressing his or her own feelings and limits, so as not to allow a situation to go beyond his or her capacity for tolerance. It’s a vulnerable position to have sex with someone other than one’s primary partner, and if that partner says “yes” when they really mean no – they are putting their relationship at risk – a consequence that both will suffer.
With that in mind, the sink or swim skills are AUTHENTICITY and TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for expressing and adhering to limits and boundaries. I think that’s likely what’s meant when people speak vaguely about “strength” in a relationship. Both parties in the relationship need to have or develop those skills, or they don’t get to climb the mountain.
So, applying that mindset to something non-sexual…When I was scuba diving with some more experienced thrill-seeking divers – they expressed an interest in doing a more technical and risky dive (as opposed to me, who likes to look at pretty coral and fish), I was easily able to overcome my fear of of disappointing others by announcing that I would not do that dive. Mrs Apocrypha, who is generally passive aggressive and who tends to be a more “fuck it, whatever” kind of person, refused to voice her discomfort with the technicality of the dive. We chose a different destination within our comfort level as a group and had a satisfying dive.
Later on, when that difference in mindset was applied to the open relationship between Mrs. Apocrypha and I, her pattern over the long haul indicated a tendency to agree or even propose situations she was not able to handle, for which I would bear the consequence. Rather than take joy and dive in, she reverted to her coping mechanism of dissociation and avoidance, trying harder and harder to “not care”, and choosing to “keep her mouth shut”, or outwardly support the activity and the benefits she got from it, when she knew she ended up hating me for my participation. The feeling on my side of it was one of betrayal and being set up by her (in some cases literally), to enact a scenario that she knew would cause disconnection and dissociation.
She had a martyr complex and the enactment of this scenario was used to feed this internal narrative. Her own (more frequent) dalliances, were then justified as kind of a "fuck you" to the marriage and to me, over the long run in increasing amounts.
In contrast, the long term successful couples took a mutual interest and recognized and appreciated each other’s roles – viewing their support of each other’s exploration and sexual variety as the ultimate gift, and the ultimate in trust. Like presenting a partner with an ultimate, lavish gift and taking pleasure in their enjoyment of it. With that in mind, I'd say a generous mindset is an asset. That means being the kind of person who takes pleasure in anticipating a partner's joy and pleasure in receiving a significant gift.
Moreover, by seeing how others view their partners, they were reminded of the novelty, passion, and objective attractiveness of their partners, and were also likely to “step up” and “lean in” to invest in their primary relationship AT LEAST to an equal level as a paramour (which is considerably more than most of the dysfunctional scenarios presented on ILIASM), with a clear understanding of the likely result if they didn’t.
This is why dysfunctional couples tend to drop out of the CNM scene. Even in a sexless marriage, it’s just not an enjoyable experience to go from the tearful wonder of having sex with someone who wants to have sex with you – and to then immediately return home to a scalding acid bath from your primary partner who endorsed it and who is now treating you as if YOU are the asshole. THAT is where you live and sleep 95% of the time. THAT is your family. A few hours of sexual joy every few weeks is NOT worth the price you must pay afterwards from a partner who doesn’t support it. I’m not talking about what’s ethically right or what you *should* do. I’m talking about the benefit vs cost to you in getting a partner who is averse to your sexuality altogether, AND who doesn’t take responsibility to treat that situation authentically, to agree to such a scenario.
And that's why dysfunctional marriages that have gotten to a point of sexual aversion - do NOT tend to do well in open relationships.
